Maybe their Mexicans work cheaper than your Mexicans.

Budda-boomp!

A neighbor told me she had a landscape architect tell her they wanted 15K just to draw up a deck.

I've been walking around Seattle alot recently. Plenty of big, fancy, new/remodeled houses with gleaming paint and massive framing - accompanied by rinky-dink, sometimes nearly nonexistent landscaping. Maybe the understatement of costs for gardens on TV shows and in magazines is the result of the continuing reluctance of the market to shell out for it.

To be sure, I'm also seeing more places decked out with fancy plant displays than I used to - sometimes there's a plant place on nearly every block - but probably these continue to be far outnumbered by cheapscapes.

Mich-I feel your pain; my checkbook feels your pain; my creditors feel your pain! I don't have any answers, I just keep trying...not to blame myself!

Was thees a DIY price? Eef not they are mucho loco en la cabesa.

jb

The article, which is written in the Sunset Magazine May 2005 issue does not say whether it is a DIY project(s) or not, but judging from the skilled labor that is required to install some of these features such as a 500 square foot Kashmir slate covered concrete sub-base patio and raised stone veneered planters, I doubt that many average homeowners have the skill, labor force or professional tools to pull such a job off.

The article shows 4 different garden designs and installations and says that they can all be designed and installed for a 15 thousand dollar budget.
The location of these yards are located in a subdivision in Northern California , where the soil is notoriously known for poor drainage and severe compaction. It is extremely hot and has drying winds in the summer and the winters are wet but there is no snow , just heavy frosts.

It's an interesting article but it is very misleading as to the real costs of landscape design and installation.
It sets up unrealistic expections.

It's not in my Sunset issue, but I get the Rocky Mountain region version. Looks like just the coastal subscribers get the 15K garden article. I'll see if it's online...

Sure sounds loco en la cabeza, that's for sure.

Okay, I found this one online - is this the article you are referring to? It states that the cost is "a budget of roughly $15,000...plus installation," not "including" installation. Actually, this was in my edition of Sunset, I just managed not to see it while flipping through.

Backyards from the ground up
Four ways to turn bare earth into an outdoor retreat

Getting started

Tips for designing a small space

You've bought a house in a new development. You love its look, its location, its neighborhood ambience.

There's just one problem: The backyard is bare ground.

How do you create your dream garden without breaking the bank?

Around the West, in cities and suburbs, big houses on small lots mean one thing: Space for outdoor living is diminishingÂespecially in new developments. Sunset staff members jumped at the chance to meet this challenge by designing gardens for four model homes in the Esperanza Estates development in Esparto, near Davis, California.

Julie Chai, Lauren Bonar Swezey, Bud Stuckey, and Peter O. Whiteley set to work converting bare earth to a backyard paradise over several months. Their goal was to provide a variety of affordable landscape designs for modest backyards (about 60 by 30 feet) on a budget of roughly $15,000 each, plus installation. The gardens had to be easy to maintain and simple to modify as the future owners' needs changed.

(SNIP)

In this piece, the writer manages to avoid mentioning what the cost of installation could be and just gives the rough figure for the "other stuff" not including installation. That's just as bad as misquoting an entire job, in my opinion. Any homeowner who calls a legit design-install company is gonna have his or her jaw hit the ground when the real estimate is given.

Whize jest everyone noze thats a landscrape job kosts is jest 2x the kosts of yern plants. Musta benz some mitey fine plant, to kosts $15,000. (ooo-wee dawrlenz) dont ya noze.
that'z all I gotz to say about that'z.
you hi falootun left coasters jest killz me!!!
P

And when the two new beemers are parked in the driveway, the price will have to be renegotiated down to $12,000--because that's what is cost on Landscaper's Challenge. ARGHHHH! I recently installed a very, very, simple front yard (no drainage issues, no difficult grades)with a drylaid bluestone walkway, minimal lights, a low garden wall, irrigation, and modest sized plants. The pricetag was over 30,000--and that was cheap!

How much do you want to bet that most people won't see the words "plus installation". This is a true dis-service.

Perhaps Sunset ought to do an article on the true costs and benefits of professional landscape design and installation.

I guess I was duped.
The impression that I got when I read the article was that the design plus the installation was to be done on a budget of $ 15,000.00

So are they saying that the design alone was $15,000.00 and the installation is additional ? Or is the installation included in the $ 15,000.00 budget ?

How should one decipher this statement ? - , " Their goal was to provide a variety of affordable landscape designs for modest backyards (about 60 by 30 feet) on a budget of roughly $15,000 each, plus installation.

If the design alone was $ 15 K , then I would say ,judging by the finished product, that the homeowners got the shaft.
I just don't see $ 15 K worth of design work on any of these 4 examples.

So which or what is it ?

Wouldn't the idea be that the ~15K covers everything except labor?

Ron,
That makes sense to me.
So why couldn't they just say that ?

If you look at the photographs of the 4 different projects, I can see approximately $ 15,000 worth of materials, and maybe $ 1600.oo ( +/- ) worth of design work. ( basically 2 eight hour days spent on site analysis, design and drafting these simple no frills landscapes ).

But as far as the installation costs , it appears that this information is omitted.

Or maybe I am just too thick + am not getting it.
Time for my meds.
Pour me a margarita please.

The wording makes it sound as though it's the design that is $15K. They don't mention the plants or mat'ls. Just "design" and then "plus installation."

Sounds like they are not "charging" for design at all, but the $15K is for materials alone. This is even more misleading when you think about it.

Do you know a contractor who would come into a job to work with materials purchased exclusively by the homeowner?

Obviously this article is geared toward the DYI crowd, but as Michele points out, DYI folks are unlikely to have the skill necessary to complete the work. Take a close look at the magazine covers in the grocery store this week. All of the pithy pitch lines contain "action" words. This is what sells magazines. However, notice that they don't say, "Shoot a 4% grade, determine the rise and run of your steps, pour the concrete forms, etc." Just "Make your own Garden Sanctuary for $15,000 this Weekend!"

This sort of thing leads to those messes I sometimes come across, when a homeowner has purchased a pile of rocks, some filter fabric, and a couple of flagstones, thinkng that they're going to make a patio with it. This headline should read, "Getting Distracted by their Busy Lives, Homeowners Leave Pile of Rubble in Driveway, Where it Sits for Three Months! Get your own Rubble Pile this Weekend!" It's really a setup for failure.

Our crestfallen couple finally hires a pro, who is likely to declare half of the materials they purchased unusable, and charge to have it hauled away if they can't find a way to recycle it in the garden.

Sunset editors: Please tell your readers that for jobs of the scope you depict in this article, the $15K is just a start, and that unless they really are planning on doing it themselves, from start to finish, they will not find a contractor willing to work with homeowner-purchased materials.

The writing is so vague that I don't get the impression that materials are included at all; only design: "Their goal was to provide a variety of affordable landscape designs for modest backyards (about 60 by 30 feet) on a budget of roughly $15,000 each, plus installation.

The fact that different readers interpret the writer's statement in different ways just emphasises the fact that it's poorly worded! Good writing (and communication in general) requires concise wording that avoids ambiguity.

Bottom line: lots of confused readers, whatever their interpretation of the author's paragraph.

Have any of you written to Sunset to complain?

Nah. It's more fun to gripe about it here... ;^D
Seriously, it would be a good idea to direct these comments to the editor. Hey Mich - since you were the thread starter, have a (respected) reputation in the Sunset territory, and because you write such great, witty stuff, maybe a letter from you would have the best chance of being read!

I emailed them a letter last week and they quickly responded the following day with this sentence :

Thanks for the added information. We appreciate it. As you might expect, much of the work was done by the people involved

dervissdesign@earthlink.net
> ----------
> From: michelle derviss
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:27 PM
> To: reader_letters - Sunset
> Subject: Cost analysis is unrealistic for landscape article
>

>
> April 22, 2005
>
> Sunset Magazine - Garden Department
> Menlo Park CA
>
> Garden Department :
> Julie Chai
> Lauren Bonar Swezey
> Bud Stuckey
> Peter O. Whiteley
>
>
> Dear Garden Markers,
> With great interest I read the article entitled " Backyards from the Ground Up" in the May 2005 issue .
>
> All of the designs that the Sunset Staff came up with were well thought out and pleasing to the eye, but the rough budget of $15,000.00 for the design and installation was way off the mark Â, and may contribute to unrealistic expectations from unsuspecting homeowners .
>
> For years readers have turned to Sunset for reliable information along with inspiring articles on responsible design.
> This current article is somewhat misleading in the way it emphasized the goal of : " affordable landscape design for a modest back yard on a budget of roughly $15,000 each plus installation".
>
> The writers and the readers of this article may find it financially enlightening if each project was realistically priced out by a licensed contractor .
> Even if a handy homeowner was to purchase all the materials and provide all of the labor, one would find that once the rental costs were added in for machinery rental ( rototiller, sod roller, U- Cart concrete , trucking for materials ) that the $ 15 K budget is well below the articles estimate.
>
> As an example in Garden # 4 , The 20Â x 22 Trex deck alone would push you over your
> $ 15,000.00 budget in the San Francisco Bay area if a licensed contractor was to properly pay for the building permit , his material and labor to build the deck.
> If a homeowner was to purchase the materials , apply for the permit and provide all the labor for free , the cost of the materials and permit together would come in at around $ 2600.00.
> That leaves $ 12,000 for the raised beds, lawn, concrete flat work, soil amendments, plants, minor grading, minor drainage, mulch, irrigation and the low voltage lighting system which is unrealistic .
>
> In the future it may be an educational benefit to have a licensed contractor provide you with a cost estimate breakdown for your inspiring designs.
>
> Sincerely,
> Michelle Derviss
>

what a poor response ... sounds canned to me. I thought about writing to them, as well -- too busy, though. Thanks for writing that letter, Michelle, even though the reply basically shows the editor(s) didn't thoroughly read your email.

What a lame response. And woefully brief after Michele's thoughtful, well-written letter. And what does "much of the work was done by the people involved" mean - That homeowners' labor would negate the? expense of the materials and equipment needed to do the work?

Michelle,
I took this to mean that their budget was 15,000 for materials only, and that it was intended to be a DYI project so no estimate of labor was provided. Also, in many areas outside of Marin County, the types of construction shown would not need any building permits, (all decks were below 30 inches in height, arbors were within permitted setbacks, fountains were the off the shelf plug in type, etc.)

I wasn't overly impressed with the level of design, and thought that none of the gardens had any particular unity, coherence or flow, and seemed very chopped up and chaotic to me. The design principles of providing shade and wind control and view privacy seemed poorly addressed as well. (Why spend so much on raised planters that cut off the garden and so little on small trees?). The article struck me as filler, and not particularly good examples to illustrate their point. It left me wondering why they didn't have real designers do the design, instead of their inhouse garden editors. I think it illustrates that we can't all do all things equally well...

I also thought it was amusing, as I recently did a design and install of a much larger garden here in Oakland for the same $15,000 budget, and had to depend on owner help to install, use of recycled materials such as concrete and flagstone; and creative use of cheap materials like bamboo reed fencing to cover existing chain link fences, using chipped,(and free) tree trimmings, welded wire concrete reinforcing mesh for vine trellises and mostly 4 inch size plants and plants such as succulents propagated from cuttings to stay within budget. Various types and colors of gravel were also used as large scale ground cover/patios/driveway surface, as well as using existing, retained trees and shrubs for maximum effect. I would estimate that this size of job would ordinarily have been double the cost, installed, if we had not been so creative with materials and labor.

I notice no one else is commenting on the design of the gardens in the article, am I the only one who thought they were subpar?

I notice no one else is commenting on the design of the gardens in the article, am I the only one who thought they were subpar

David , I have to be mindful of the hand that ocassionally feeds me.

; ~ )

I found them ordinary. "Back yards" that match the plopped-down tract houses themselves. They serve a purpose for the owners - play area, entertaining, etc. and are neat and uncluttered, but there is nothing that makes them special or unique.

They do lack flow and unity. The yard with the slate-covered cinderblock planters were a mystery - why plunked in the middle, obstructing easy egress from one end of the yard to the other? And why two narrow planters? Odd.

Uninspired, but harmless.

Sunset is a subsidiary of Time, thus, perhaps, the terse reply.