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Question about Toto Drake installation cost?

16 years ago

I've just learned that a DC-area plumbing firm charged my elderly mom $794 to install a Toto Drake toilet (one toilet, in an existing bath replacing one their service guy had cracked ... that's another story...). I was just there and discovered that they installed (without asking her if she had a preference) a Bemis seat with the Toto -- not exactly the same color, definitely not the same quality as the Totos I have myself (though it is a "whisper-close" or some such), and definitely not quite the right fit, as it extends beyond the bowl on the sides by a tad). My question: I am tempted to write to this firm to protest what I consider a real rip-off of a senior citizen: our Totos (including one Guinevere) didn't cost $800 installed and that's WITH Toto seats). However, before I do so, I thought I ought to find out if that seems a reasonable or unreasonable price. $794 to install a Toto Drake with a Bemis seat in an existing bath (and presumably removing the old American Standard toilet).

It seems like a lot, even for the metro DC area....

Comments (9)

  • 16 years ago

    I'll wait for the experts to weigh in, but it sounds a bit high to me. Is that the installation cost, or the total cost including the toilet? Just doing a quick glance at online prices, Drakes seem to run from the mid-$100s up to close to $300, depending which Drake (I or II or Eco, with or without Sanagloss, white or beige or cotton, etc.) -- which model did she get? Any idea how old the previous toilet was; it could have required a new flange if it was old and rusted. My suggestion would be to ask the company for an itemized bill, showing parts and labor broken out. You certainly have a gripe about the non-matching seat; depending on their response, you can then decide whether there were some mitigating factors which make this high price seem acceptable or whether to ramp up your protest.

    -- Eric

  • 16 years ago

    Eric, good points. The $794 is the total price (fixture plus installation) and the old toilet was probably the original one (from 1980 when the unit was built), so I'm sure they needed to replace the flange. I will ask them for a detailed invoice -- what she gave me just says "Toto Drake".

    I was guessing at most the toilet cost $300 retail, leaving almost $500 for the installation, which seemed high to me but perhaps it's not. She said they were there about an hour actually putting the new one in (they billed her separately for the service call 2 days before to try to clear a clog in the old toilet with a closet auger. They claimed when she called them back 2 days later because water was increasingly dripping through her first floor ceilings (there WAS a mini flood with the clog, but the water coming through the downstairs ceilings was increasing, not decreasing, after they cleared the clog) that her old unit "had a crack" (I think their guy cracked it with the auger, but I can't prove that -- the water in the ceilings COULD have been from the original clog/flood, but I'm pretty sure if that American Standard had been cracked all along, she'd have had problems with it leaking long before now.)

    But I think you're correct I should start by politely asking for a detailed invoice that specifies the exact model, etc.

    I had decided to let it all go after she told me the price originally, but when I actually saw the seat he put on for that price, and asked her if they'd mentioned that she had the option of a matching (looks like Toto's "cotton" color to me) seat from Toto, she said no, he didn't say anything about the seat. So that really annoyed me, because I think both the fit and the color difference, although only slightly off, are noticeable, and the guy had no business not at least asking her what she wanted.

  • 16 years ago

    I purchased a Toto EcoDrake (what I thought was a Drake but upon arrival it was an EcoDrake) for $339.16 with a 10" rough in. It is possible that the 10" rough in might cost more than the standard. Another plumbing store quoted me $397.61. I replaced what used to be an American Standard (that cracked on me during storage during a renovation). The toilet did not come with a seat and I purchased a Toto soft close seat, though I can't find the exact amount I paid (under $50 I think). The installation was fairly easy, although I had to repair the toilet flange with a repair ring (less than $20 from Home Depot I think) which necessitated some drilling and cutting of the old broken pieces of the original plastic flange. So overall the cost of the parts was around or over $400 in Utah (which is probably a lot cheaper than DC).

    I would definitely agree that asking for an itemized invoice would be reasonable. If you can throw it off on "tax purposes" or "insurance purposes" or something so that you don't sound suspicious, that would probably help gain cooperation. You could also call up the company to ask what their hourly rate might be and whether they have a minimum per job.

    It sounds like they may have charged nearly $400 for the service call which seems a little high to me if they were only there for an hour, but it may depend on DC rates. (Assuming that the augering cost was billed separately?) When I received quotes from plumbers locally (in Utah) they were for between $90-130/hour. I suppose if the plumbing company has any kind of a minimum number of hours charged per job and rates that would likely be higher than Utah, you might end up with a $400 labor fee.

    I honestly do not find it very strange that they gave her a non-Toto seat without asking. When I had an american Standard toilet installed a few years ago (on a warranty, and yes this is the same one that cracked during storage), the plumber had a standard elongated soft-close toilet seat that he installed. The only thing he asked was whether I wanted to pay a little more for the soft close. There was no discussion of brand and he just installed what he had in his truck. I'm guessing that this plumber did the same thing.

  • 16 years ago

    They charged your mom too much!
    I had exactly the same replacement 5 months ago, from an American Standard to Toto EcoDrake, including hauling away the old toilet, the Toto seat and a new section of the pipe that goes into the wall. Total cost (toilet, materials and labor) was $450 in San Francisco Bay Area.

  • 16 years ago

    Curiously, I called the company and requested an itemized invoice, along with the exact details of the toilet (WHICH Drake model number). I was told they "don't itemize invoices" and when I then asked the service manager if he could at least tell me which Drake model it was (1.6, 1.28, Eco, Sanagloss, ADA, etc.) he replied "it's a Drake" leaving me with the definite impression that he was unaware there was more than one version of the Drake. He DID immediately offer to send someone out to replace the Bemis seat with a Toto seat (so they presumably know which model -- round, elongated, "cotton white" or "Colonial white" etc. -- they installed, right?!)

    But I have never heard of a plumbing firm (this is a large one that's got an A+ rating with BBB and has been in business for YEARS) not being willing to provide an itemized invoice if asked (which might tell me if they had to replace the flange, a water line or valve, etc.) Is this unusual?? (Up here in New England, it's pretty SOP for plumbers to list every single part -- elbows, valves, bolts, etc. -- they had to use for your job, so the concept that a plumbing firm "couldn't" do that floored me.)

  • 16 years ago

    BBB is worthless. Any complaint that is resolved never makes it thru to the ratings.

  • 16 years ago

    Cost of the toilet is what it is.

    Installation should be $150 or so, that includes removal of the old. That's for the 10 minutes of work plus travel time.

    If the flange had to be changed or dickered with that could have been a factor.

  • 16 years ago

    Atlanta area -- 2 Eco Drakes, both elongated, both with soft-close seat, 1 ADA height, 1 standard height & new flange for 1 of them -- installed price = $839 for both (including hauling away old toilets).

    Have you tried escalating and speaking with someone who is above the Service Manager -- maybe the President or General Manager?

  • 16 years ago

    When we first moved into this house I needed a plumber to do several things. The bill was itemized by service, but not each part (i.e., "replace kitchen faucet", etc.) Looking at it later, it struck me as quite high. I called the company the next day and asked for an itemization. They couldn't give me one. I actually talked to the owner. They send out very well stocked trucks with all the items they might need, and as a result customers paid for that overhead. The overhead was built into the price. They had a chart with a line item - replace kitchen faucet - and a price. I do live in a rural area, and the nearest hardware store is 30 minutes away. The plumbers were also quite competent - have never had any issues with the work they have done. They have since changed their pricing policy tho.
    Maybe your plumber does it the same way?