Good day Marie, I had the same problem for all the years I had used FLs (Neptune and LG). All along I thought it was my dryer who was cooking them up stiff. I recently gave up on FLs (Sears bought back my LG due to numerous problems). I now have an old fashion, very simple Speed Queen TL and the difference in the softness in my towels has been dramatic. My towels also had a mildewy smell and that has also gone. I suggest to further reduce your use of detergent and see if your problem decreases/disappears. Also, are you using Oxyclean? (it further softens your water - I think) Good luck

Interestly enough...yesterday I noticed when I did my dark load of towels (from the teenagers bath) that there were tons of suds in the washer during the 'wash' cycle... I always do an 'extra' rinse when I turn the machine on... made sure I had vingear in the fabric softner dispenser and then ran a separate rinse cycle after the regular cycle with extra rinse was done... didn't notice any 'sudsing' with that extra rinsing... BUT when I did the 'light' towel load (master bath, kitchen and youngest's bath towels) there was NOT the sudsing in the wash cycle.... I think the sudsing I saw in the 'dark' load was from face soaps ont heir wash cloths, and poor rinsing off of soap from body and hair.... both loads otherwise should be equal... shower towels, face cloths... oh yes andthe kitchen towels in with the light colored... and one scoop of Charlie's soap... with vinegar in the fs....

my towels WERE stiff/rough when I first switched to charlies... for about the whole way through the first bag of product... but now they are soft as can be wiht no smell....

I think the detergent plays a big role in rinsability and detergent buildup.
I haven't tried Charlie's Soap yet, but I don't have any problems with the Sears Ultra powdered detergent. I have tried liquid Tide HE and found that it rinses out poorly and even left e few greasy looking stains on some clothes (it contains FS). I am using the Tide for my loads of towels now using very small amounts and it does leave the towels a little bit softer than the Sear powder and it rinses out okay after a hot wash.
Have you ever tried other detergents than Tide? Most washers nowadays use cold water for the rinse cycle and Tide doesn't seem to rinse well at all with cold water. A different detergent might solve your problem.

I agree with plumbly22 that towels and washcloths might contain large amounts of soap residue from shampoos, bodywash and facial cleansers. Those could also lead to a musty smell over time. We have had problems with musty smells when we were using a TL, but never with our FL. The drum and boot of our FL smell clean and the towels don't even get a musty smell after continued use anymore. IMO a FL does a much better job at removing and preventing musty smells as long as you keep the washer free of buildup and mold!

We're just used to using fabric softeners in our old TL's.

Fabric softeners help rinse the detergent out.

Some FL's can use some fabric softeners or you can use up to 1 cup of vinegar.

Some powder detergents seem to work better than the liquid detergents.

Thanks for all the replys, I only use 1/2 tablespoon of tide, I have also used All and Gain, I dont use fabric softner, I used it in my last FL and there was so much mold in the dispenser actually under it, I have done everything that the manual suggests. How much water is suppose to be in them during rinse? I have never tryed the vinegar, doesnt the clothes smell? oh when the the tech called stack to find out what the problem could be, he told him to have me put vegetable oil in it????

I don't know about the vegetable oil....

The vinegar smell should be gone by the time they're done drying.

link: Readers Digest vinegar in the washing machine

link: Pine-Sol in the washing machine

My toploader smells and I think its because I use a liquid.

If the towels aren't stiff from detergent build-up or soap residue from use, then it could be the type/grade of cotton in the towels.

Not all cotton is soft. I try to choose Egyptian cotton towels. Because of the climate in Egypt the cotton grows with extra long fibres. This means that when it is spun and woven it is much smoother than other types of cotton. Egyptian cotton towels are longer lasting and extra absorbent than most other types of cotton.

But I've also purchased less-expensive towels that are nice and soft even when line dried (I use Charlie's soap and vinegar rinse).

-Grainlady

We have had this problem especially during the summer. Use the vinegar, a 1/4 cup per load and it will rinse out and leave no smell. The swimteam loves the towels we have for they are so soft and look brand new.

Thank you for all the advice, I will have to try the vinegar. I would wonder about the towels but they are the same towels that I used in my other FL, I am now wondering if the machine that I have isnt getting enough water to rinse all the soap out, maybe there is something wrong with the water valve because it would make a screach sound and the techs told me that it was the valve making that noise but they never checked it, but they are replacing the washer, I hope it will work better. Thanks again

Marie

I too had stiff towels as well before. I reduce the detergent and put vinegar for rinse. I also put the towels in the dryer with high heat and also include wrinkle guard so it will make it soft and fluffy.

Dryer balls go a long way to "re-fluff" towels and make them soft. Downy Free & Sensitive does not cause a build-up, and I use that on all of my towels and clothing for great results. I use half a cap full of vinegar and the other half w/ Downy.

For those who are having "musty towel syndrome", the reason for this is most likely that your wash cycle is not hot enough. Towels tend to get musty before they hit the washing machine, and washing them in warm or pseudo "hot" water won't do anything to kill off the mildew. If you can't wash your towels at a minimum of 140°F, you may wish to add some bleach or pine oil to disinfect and kill off the mildew.

sshrivastava,
How do you know it isnt causing a build up? with my other washer I always used Downy & other brands and I would take out the dispenser and there was like black moldy stuff all over under the dispenser and on the dispenser compartment and I couldnt reach it to clean it out, does the viniger break it down? I really miss using fabric softner. The manual for my washer says to mix with water, but I am worried it will still get a buildup.

Resurrecting this thread, I just got an LG front loader about a month ago and since then our towels have gotten stiff and scratchy. We switched to HE Tide detergent in both powder and liquid form (I switch off between them) from regular Tide powder in our TL but still use regular Downy liquid softener. I also use a Bounce sheet in the dryer.

Is it the HE detergent? I always used about a tablespoon of detergent in the TL and continue to do so in the FL, and I haven't changed the amount of fabric softener, I do run vinegar once every few weeks like I did with the TL, so everything is the same except a new set of machines and HE detergent. The towels used to be so fluffy and soft, now they are like scrubby pads.

Thanks!

Michelle,

Im sorry to hear that you too are having the same problem, I believe that it is caused by TIDE HE LIQUID, I had a FL washer before I got a new whirlpool fl, I use to use reg powder detergent and I did not have stiff towels or severe soap buildup. I still have buildup of soap in my towels, I have been using NO SOAP since April 1st, I had been using Tide HE because that is what they WP recommended. I used it from the day I bought my new FL a year ago July, I switched to CS and didnt like it, so I now use 1/2 tbl Gain reg powder in all my other clothes. I dont use any soap in the towels, I wash them on sanitize cycle with 1/2 cup vinegar and use, and there is still enough soap in them that they are clean but stiff. I have always used 1/2 to 1 Tbl only and Im still battling the issue of stiff and soapy towels. My washer doesnt use enough water to rinse the soap out.
I hope that you can find a solution. let me know if you do.

I even purchased some dryer balls and that isnt even helping, I am saving up to buy a TL Speed queen.

Where do you put the vinegar? The Bosch 500 has a Fabric Softner and Bleach section- Which one would I put it in-I don't use fabric softners and I use Charlie's soap powder.

Momof3, you put it in the fabric softener dispenser.

I'm having the same problem as well. Whirlpool Duet HT. Was using Gain HE detergent... that created way too many suds. Switched to Sunlight 3x HE, with a reduced amount to what the manufactor reccomends. Tried washing towels without any detergent, only a tiny amount of washing soda, can't remember if I put in liquid FS or vinegar?? or either, but used a dryer sheet for sure. They were marginally better, but still stiffish and rough. I will try a few more loads without detergent, as I know there is some residue as a few suds show up when I use the clean washer cycle.I used to have really soft fluffy towels, not any more :(

Time to be blunt. You can't blame the detergent when the operator puts too much in there! And think about it, you're probably adding quite a bit of soap to the mix too. When bathing, washing hands, drying dishes, etc, you may well be leaving a soap residue on those towels and adding in too much detergent it only makes sense that you'll have suds and residue.

Less is often more.

Cynic, so one tablespoon is too much? Like I said, this is for a FL, but that is how much I used in my TL, so should I cut it down even further?

michelle,
I only use 1/2 - 1 Tbls of reg "non HE" powder, NONE on towels "I wash towels on sanatize cycle" they still have enough soap in them from using "liquid Tide HE" to clean, I would not use Tide HE or any liquid. I would try as little as possible, and readjust to what works. I just have such a buildup in the towels, but odd because I had only been using 1/2 Tbl on my towels, my other clothes arent as bad. When I first got my new washer it came with a pouch of Tide liquid, they say its enough for 1 load, I knew that was way too much, I used only 1/3 of it in a load of casuals and it was still too much, that is when I cut back to 1/2 Tbl, I am now using Gain reg powder.

Cynic,
Being blunt doesnt help that THE MACHINE and LIQUID is the problem!! JUST GIVE ME MORE WATER!! I never used more than 1/2 Tbl in my towels. So tell us that we are not rinsing off after showering, I AM! and I always rinse out the washclothes etc. before hanging to dry before washing them. I cant imagine there being soap on my dishes,clothes,body. NOT!!
I cant believe that some of you that dont have these issues, tend to say that we "operaters" are using too much soap. It is from using "LIQUID" soap in my situation and not having enough water to rinse.
I know it is hard for you to understand, but it is true. I have said before that I had a Frigidaire FL washer, before I got my Duet, it didnt have this issue, I always used reg non HE powder and it had enough water to rinse and would spray out of the paddles and hit the clothes as it was rinsing, the WP doesnt, it spays water from the front and hits the clothes in the front,as the clothes are sitting the water stops and then it tumbles, I think it needs to have alot more water to rinse, at least 5 inches of water not 1 or 2. How do you think that it can rinse anything with that little bit of water?

OPERATER NOT!!!

If you have a better solution than telling us that we are not rinsing off. I would like to hear it.

Amen, MC! I know I am using way below what is recommended, I don't think Cynic bothered to read all the posts.

"not enough water"...this is the issue I addressed here about a week and half ago when I was setting out to buy a new washer. I just don't understand how such a small amt of water can RINSE a load of clothes of not just detergent but dirt and grime as well. The manufacturers are being pressured to pander more towards the "green" aspect than their customer's clean clothes. You rinse out a soapy washcloth in a bathroom sink and rinse one out in a bathtub full of water....which is going contain less soap? Less water (for the environment and my septic system) is better. I'm fairly convinced it's not best for the appearance of my laundry. Can you buy a TL with agitator that has the energy efficient label (not HE)?
BTW, I've not had my Cabrio TL a week. Have washed maybe 4 loads. At this point, I can honestly say I've yet to see any difference in my laundry compared to the 12 yo TL KitchenAid it replaced.
Monica

The website below lists the Whirlpool WTW6200 (with agitator, if I'm not mistaken) as Energy Star Qualified. But the Whirlpool website doesn't claim Energy Star for that model.

I am so glad that there are a few people who understand the issue and are trying to help.
I have never used soooo much water and electricity in my whole life, as I have with this peice of JUNK WHIRLPOOL DUET 9200 ht. it is replacement as of My 6th, I bought the original July 15th last year, it gave me the same problem, thats why they replaced it, well it does tangle everything together real BAD also another reason for replacement.
When you have to wash and rinse and rewash and rinse again and again and again just to get the soap out "how ENERGY EFFICIENT can that be???" I spent the whole day from 9:00 am to 11:30 trying to get the soap out of just the towels, and that was after 2 months of not using soap, I had done this numerous times.

Cynic has read and responded to alot of posts and I believe alot of them was mine that "he or she" had read and posted. I have been trying to figure this issue out for along time and I have been warning people of the issue of the liquid soaps and HE bleach. DONT USE IT!!

I am getting almost no suds in the rinse with the towels now, but it has been 5 months with no soap. I have spent so much on energy trying to get soap out, they are pretty much soap free now I hope! now I am scared to ever use soap again till I get a new Speed Queen TL when I can afford to spend a bunch more money.
I still have very stiff towels??? I use vinegar and dryer balls, but I think I will get new towels when I buy new washer.

Good Luck to everyone that is having this problem! I wish I could help figure out how to make the towels soft again.

Marie

So Marie, you think it is the HE liquid? I have the HE powder as well, or should I go back to regular Tide (using my usual teaspoon per load)?

Also, I can do extra rinse cycles, but like you said, that is against the point of HE appliances!

I found that in the FL vinegar doesn't help the softness, so I agree that it is the detergent.

I still say it's the SMALL amount of water these FL's are using....You cna't get detergent out of a washload if there isn't enough water. The FL I used just used a tiny stream of constant running water. No way can that clean or rinse a tub full of clothes.

It took me several months after getting my FL to get my towels soft and fluffy again. I even posted on here asking for help, so I understand your frustration! I'm on city water, soft (almost 0 grains). I've tried probably 10 different detergents, both powder and liquid, regular and HE. Right now I've got 5 different detergents in my laundry room. Now I use about 3 T Tide HE powder for a FULL load of towels, hot water, a splash of FS, filling the rest of the FS dispenser up with vinegar. This seems to be doing the trick and my towels are much better.

Personally, I love my FL. I get BETTER, more even cleaning results and my water bill has dropped a noticeable amount. For example, in a one month period my water bill showed usage of 53 hundred gallons, compared to 76 hundred gallons the year before when we still had the TL. I'm very glad we made the FL purchase.

Good luck!
Tracey

Michelle,
Yes! I do believe it is the LIQUID HE any brand, I was told by the last tech here when he saw my bottle of liquid Tide HE sitting on my counter, he told me DO NOT USE LIQUID HE anybrand, I have about 4 different brands that I have sitting in my cupboard because I had tried them all with the same result. I know that is part of the problem, the other part is the water amount.
With your towels I would try to get all the soap out using no soap for awhile on sanitize cycle if you have it, if not, use hot water. I dont really know about any brand powder HE, I have only tried Charlies soap powder that is suppose to be HE and didnt like it, It wasnt cleaning my whites very good and it didnt rinse out well, same as the Liquid Tide HE etc., when I started to use the Gain reg non HE powder I have clean clothes and dont have to rinse the whites more than the extra rinse cycle and another rinse and spin cycle, they come out clean and soft and not stiff and full of soap, the funny thing is the few white towels and washclothes that I wash with my whites with 1/4 cup reg bleach and 1/2 tbl Gain NON HE powder and 1/2 cup vinegar, they are so clean and soft, the loads of whites are small loads of a few towels, 5 washclothes, 10 dish clothes, and about 10 pair of husbands socks, he likes to walk around outside without shoes on and they get real dirty but they are clean and it has been awhile since I have seen them that clean and the towels are soft. If I could just get the other towels that soft. I still want to go to laundramat to wash towels but I cant carry them I have a bad back so maybe I will wash 2 at a time and see if it will work, I even tried a Large load and that didnt work the machine had a hard time spinning. I have been washing no more than 4-5 at a time but they are stiff, awhile ago I had mentioned that my towels were starting to get soft again, but I realized it was the white ones.

Angelic,
I use to have a Frigidair fl for 7 almost 8 yrs it did give me alittle more water not much though and poured out of the paddles and would tumble at the same time as it was draining before the rinse and after the rinse, and it did great and I didnt have this problem the clothes didnt even tangle, but I only used non he powder. A couple months before I purchased the new washer I had switched to Liquid reg and my towels were starting to get stiff. I thought it was another problem with the 7 yr old machine, and ya know that is when I started to get a mold problem with it, so I bought a new GREAT WHIRLPOOL DUET that is WORSE than my 7 yr old fl, I should have kept it and cleaned it up and went back to powder, but I didnt realize than what was wrong, and I wanted a new BIG washer to handle BIGGER loads. The techs a total of 6 that have been to check my washer all but 1 of them told me to NEVER wash more than you would in a TL because it will cause Major damage.

Tracey,
What washer do you have? I have a watersoftner. You say you use 3 TBL? I cant imagine me putting that much soap in my washer, it cant rinse out 1/2 tbl Charlies. I wonder what the difference is? did you wash without soap for months to get the soap out or did you just change soap? I havent used Tide HE powder, maybe I will try a small box. I loved my Frigidaire fl for the first 5 yrs, it worked great, then we had to replace the struts on it because it had a balance problem, but at least it rinsed all the soap out and back then I think I used about 3 Tbl of reg powder Surf.
I cant tell how much water we have "not" saved, I know we have used more do to having to wash over and over again.
I thank you for giving me some hope, I wish it could be that simple.

Marie

Are the toploading HE machines subject to this same problem since they too use so little water?
Monica

Okay, so I am going to experiment and only use Tide HE powder with my towels. I wasn't sure if you could mix vinegar and softener together, but I will try it. As for detergent, I can't bring myself to use more than a tablespoon of any detergent, and I have noticed that even from day one I am really not getting too many suds, but I will also try a second rinse just in case. I think this will be trial and error for a while until I find a happy medium.

monicakm,
I dont know about the TL HE, maybe you can start a new post and ask about them. I hope that someone can help you.

Michelle,
I have used softner and vinegar together, I put the vinegar in the fs comp. if Im using FS too I will open door on rinse cycle and pour in th fs, that is if the door will open for me, alot of times it wont open, I mix softner with a 1/2 cup water, but I am worried about the softner causing the mold issue. I had that happen with my old FL from the softner because it was so thick it wouldnt rinse off and mold grew under the drawer and in the back of the compartment, I was told by the tech to add softner to water and the manual also says to. And I too cant imagine using more than 1/2 tbl of soap, or using soap on my towels again.
I hope that you can find what works for you. let us know if it works using Tide. Make sure you leave the door open when not in use, I also open the drawer and dump the water out and sit it on a towel to dry.

Good Luck.
Marie

Marie,
I have a basic GE 3.5 cubic ft FL. I never used fabric softener before I had the FL, only dryer sheets. But when I got the FL and started having trouble with the towels, I drastically reduced the amount of detergent I was using and started using a splash of fabric softener. I still have to be careful about detergent dosing because it's very easy to use to much. I have to try and adjust depending on how big a load I'm doing. It did take awhile for all the gunk to get out of the towels, but now I'm at the point where I can use any powder detergent I want, including non-HE (I love apple mango tango Gain) and still get great results.

Again, good luck.

Tracey

Thanks Marie, I always dilute my FS, I have one jug I use that is about half water, half FS, and then just add more as needed from the undiluted bottle. I agree, it is too thick and since it is a concentrate anyway, this just helps thin it out.

So you put the 1/4cup of white vinegar in your soap dispensor in TOP LOADING WASHING MACHINE? Interesting it is!! Thank You, razenette

Michelle, are you using the Downy liquid fabric softener on towels? Way back when I was a young bride, experienced people told me not to use fabric softener on towels, as it would cause them to lose their absorbency. I use vinegar in the final rinse, as it cuts out the detergent. They come out of the dryer very soft and fluffy.

Monica, I have a toploading HE washer (the Maytag MTW6700 model, no agitator), and I haven't a problem with stiff towels, or any other stiff laundry for that matter.

"Can you buy a TL with agitator that has the energy efficient label (not HE)?"

The only TL w/agitator I've seen that has the Energy Saver label is the Whirlpool Cabrio WITH agitator. I'm not sure if it's called an HE machine, or not.

There may be others I haven't seen.

I too thought the TL Cabrio WITH agitator was ES Qualified. Maybe I read it here, but on the Whirlpool website (and Sears website), it doesn't mention ES Qualified.
Monica

For some reason, I thought I had seen where all the Cabrio washers were given the Energy Star rating, but it wasn't mentioned at your link, so evidently the one WITH the agitator isn't. Which makes sense - it must have that in common with traditional washers, though it does share some features with the Cabrio HE washers.

Monica, are you having any problem with stiff towels with your new Cabrio washer? If you mentioned that in this thread, I didn't see it.

I cited this link a few posts back. It's a government Energy Star site that lists the WTW6200.

Mara, yes, I am using Downy with my towels in my FL, it hasn't affected the absorbency. I have always watched for that to happen, but I always used it with my TL and the towels were much softer but no less absorbent. With the FL they are VERY absorbent because they are so stiff!

Razenette, no, you put the vinegar in the fabric softener dispenser so it gets added to your laundry in the rinse, not the wash.

mara, I wouldn't call them "stiff" or "crunchy", just not quite as soft as with the traditional TL. I'm using vinegar in every rinse cycle. I never use fs. I'm NOT seeing an improvement over my 12yo KitchenAid washer. But what really has me concerned is something that happened last week. Our daughter came over and brought her small dog. She's house broke at HER house but has had a few accidents over here. She peed on my bed :( I smelled the sheet when I took it out of the washer and could still detect a smell of urine :o I washed the mattress pad in the same load and didn't smell urine on it. I washed them on the towel/sheet setting, normal, warm/cold wash-rinse. Didn't quite fill the Tide HE Liquid cap to the (1) level. A few days later, I washed my grandson's terry cloth bib. For the first time, it didn't come completely clean. The washer left a spaghetti sauce stain. My first thought is that I need to use the recommended amt of detergent but most everyone here is convinced LESS detergent cleans just as well if not better. I think an agitator and a decent amt of water wouldn't hurt either! I was in Lowes the other day and looked at more washers. Told the salesman that I wasn't impressed with my new Cabrio and that it didn't seem to clean better than the 12yo washer it replaced. He said "the new washers don't claim to clean BETTER, just more efficient" :o I can't believe he said that, I can't believe the manufacturers would say that but I'd have to say (from my experience) it's true...they don't clean better, they clean more efficiently.
Monica

Monica, I use the recommended amount of detergent, using my best judgment, and I haven't had any problems at all. If my washer is full of really dirty clothes (like jeans and work clothes), I use the top line in the cap. I seldom have a medium load, but when I do, I fill to the 2 line. (I haven't had any small loads yet.) I do only fill to 2 when the washer is full of sheets, as they don't get very dirty and there are not nearly as many of them as items of clothing in a full load - ditto for comforters. I also only fill to the 2nd line if I'm washing a full load of lightly-soiled casual (office, church) clothes.

From what I've read here and elsewhere, it's the frontloaders that seem not to rinse well. I don't recall seeing any posts about that problem with toploading HE washers.

Your KA washer may have been better than my Kenmore TL. It had always cleaned my clothes well, but then again I soaked almost all our clothes. With the Bravos, I only soak the really grungy white t-shirts, socks, and underwear worn by my guys who work in HVAC.

My towels come out softer and fluffier than they did in my old w/d, and I usually fill to the 3 level because I always have a full load, and usually have some really dirty ones (from our three dogs' baths). I just thought of something: I wonder if the baking soda I use to double the bleach's whitening power also softens the towels? I know the water in the kitchen sink feels soft and silky when I add baking soda to it.

Do you pretreat stains? I use Shout when I put stained items in hampers.

There do seem to be more negative Cabrio and Oasis reviews online than Bravos. I'm not sure why that is true, but that was one of the reasons I bought the Bravos. However, if you aren't afraid to use more detergent, you may find your Cabrio does an excellent job.

On the weekend I did a "clean Washer" cycle. I was amazed to see how many suds there were. I ran a 2nd clean washer cycle right away and there were still some suds. I had been wondering before I started the clean washer cycles, if left over residue in the drum itself, could be part of the problem with suds still showing up in the rinse cycles, even when using one or two extra rinse cycles and cutting way back on detergent. I think the amount of suds I saw confirms residue left in the drum and I'm sure it's part of the problem. I ended up running 4 clean washer cycles that day and kept checking back to see for suds. I am going to experiment with doing clean washer cycle at 4 weeks.... then once a week and see ow much of a difference it shows

Gain Liquid HE detergent... I washed a large load of my husbands very dirty, workclothes. I used almost as much as the bottle recommends... I used the Sanitary cycle... halfway through, approx. I went to look, it was solid white suds, couldn't see into the washer at all.

Laino,
I feel for you. What washer do you have? how many times did you have to rinse to get the suds out?

I wouldnt recommend using any liquid HE I have used alot of different brands, they all do the same thing SUDS and it is very hard to get out of towels.

Before I recieved my replacement washer I would do the clean washer cycle and never saw suds, some people had mentioned to me that could be the problem, but it isnt, even with my new machine there are no suds in the clean washer cycle.

One time I used HE Bleach to do the clean washer cycle, DONT USE IT! It took many washes and rinses to get the suds out.

As long as regular bleach does the job, I will definitely not be buying the HE formula. I'm too much of a penny-pincher to spend extra money for no good reason. :-)