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nikkir_gw

Molding not level

21 years ago

I am having custom cabinets built in my kitchen of my 1934 home. The cabinet maker also agreed to install crown molding and beadbord wainscoting. There is one very noticeable section of crown molding that is about 3/8" off over a window between two cabinets. When I pointed it out to him he said that my walls are not square and the ceiling is off...short of floating a section of ceiling there is nothing that can be done; I'll just have to learn to live with it.

I was in the breakfast room today and there is a place where the cap molding on the beadbord is not level; it is off by 1/4". It, too, is very noticeable.

He is coming back today and I'm going to bring this to his attention. Am I being too picky? Is that just what I have to expect living in an old house? I paid good money for this job and I don't want to forever be looking at things that aren't right. Aren't there ways these can be fixed?

Comments (14)

  • 21 years ago

    There is an old house phrase.. " Square, plumb or level.. pick two!" Old houses settle their bones into a comfortable position that I have little inclination to fix if it's just a cosmetic issue. You might try having him move the area into "visual level" to see if you like it better. We just came up agasint this in my sons room with the wainscotting... visual level is more than 1/2 a bubble off of true level. But what is important is how it looks not that it is really level in this case. Only you can decide but I tend to live with the settled bones of my house knowing that it's been here longer than me and on that basis alone I give it the respect it deserves.

    Maddiemom

  • 21 years ago

    A quarter inch is probably more visble to you than to anyone else. You can ask him to make it more "eye sweet", though, but you'll never achieve complete perfection. Old houses are always out of some dimension. My 160 year old kitchen floor drops nearly an inch and a quarter across the four foot span under my range. Luckily, it's one of those pro-style ones with legs and no toe kick, so we've just extended the southern pair as necessary. Side benefit: the southern half is much more comfortable for my tall husband to work at, while the northern half is better for shorter me.

    Molly~

  • 21 years ago

    Yup, we have had to do the visual level several times in our house---if true level looks crooked, we "level" it up till it looks right!

  • 21 years ago

    I love that in oldhouse.

  • 21 years ago

    The problem is that it neither looks level nor IS level. We were looking at the rail cap(correct term?) on top of the wainscoting last night and it is off in a few places too. When I mentioned it to cabinet guy he just thinks I'm being picky and unreasonable.

  • 21 years ago

    No offense but if you are really that much of a perfectionist maybe you really shouldn't be living in an old house. There are those among us who see things like this as part of the charm of old house living.

  • 21 years ago

    Can you post some pictures of it? Maybe that way we can better judge the situation...

  • 21 years ago

    Joe Kuhl, you're way off base here. I've been in (and lived in plenty of old houses) and I'm sure the same problems with walls & ceilings existed, and the crown molding did NOT look like this.

  • 21 years ago

    If he had scribed the line of the ceiling onto the molding then cut it to fit, this wouldn't have occured. But only real craftsmen do such work, and the extra cost might not have been worth it to you. Can you pack the gap with wood filler and stain it to match?

  • 21 years ago

    nikkir,

    You've just been introduced to a phenomenon I call "Old House Snobbery."

    Those who practice such snobbery say people who complain about an old house's idiosyncrasies (sp?) don't "deserve" to live in them. Or those who make alterations to old houses to make them liveable should never ever ever be allowed to own another old house. Or those who would even consider replacing windows with vinyl instead of wood should be shot on sight.

    ;-)

    Welcome to my world. Where I live in an old house, and the purists be damned. LMAO!

  • 21 years ago

    Depending on the amount needed to make things level, scribing can look pretty bad also. When an entire molding detail (like a bead at an edge) fades into the scribe things can look funny.
    Humans are pretty good at picking some changes better than others. A gap that starts as nothing, then opens to even 1/8 inch over 10 feet is noticeable. A gap that starts at ½ and opens to 5/8 over 10 feet often goes undetected.
    When installing cornice in older houses I use a laser level to measure out the entire room before starting. I check ceiling height about every 2 feet along every wall. Then go back with a 6 foot level and check for straightness along the wall sliding the level along (carefully to not leave marks). Depending on the size of the molding, a decision to try and spring to the existing conditions or drop the molding down is made. Kerfing molding allows more spring if it is needed, or does a quick swipe with a hand plane to relieve the back of the molding for an odd bulge in the wall.
    The same method works for wallpaper borders. The last inch at the top of the wall is painted the ceiling color, and then the border dropped to create a clean install. This hides the typical errors in plaster wall ceiling joints very well. Only the most careful look shows the small section of wall showing above the border.

  • 21 years ago

    you specifically said "custom". If this stuff is being custom made, he could have and should have accounted for the differences. I agree that things will be a bit off in an old house, but if it bothers you when you look at it, not just when you pull out the ruler and level, then I think he should fix it.

    I also had custom cabinetry and molding done in the kitchen. the ceiling was way off (by about an inch and a half) in an 8 foot span. It took some real fudging, but it looks great and is not noticeable.

    The floor was also off by under an inch, and he accounted for it when making the bases.

    Personally, I am sure you are paying this guy a pretty penny and he should make you happy.

  • 21 years ago

    Nikkir,
    All houses settle. Older houses settle more. Your options are only limited to the size of your budget. However, the cabinet maker should not be responsible for squaring your house or kitchen, it is not his responsibility. He did not make them unsquare or unplumb, natural settling did that.

    So, you can pay the cabinet maker a little extra to hide the differences in height; tear apart your whole kitchen to make the walls and ceiling square to each other; or do nothing and be happy with your new cabinets.

  • 21 years ago

    Sounds to me that the crown moulding issue may indeed be due to old house characteristics.

    The cap rail over the wainscoating should be level however. It is a new installation.

    As a craftsman, I would not be the least bit offended if my customer asked me to correct something that they felt was out of whack. In fact, I would want to know if they were unhappy in any way. After all, they paid me well to do the job and do it right.

    If your craftsman is hesitant to fix it for you, remind him that his name is associated with his work and that each time you look at it the work will remind you of him and his standards.

    If he is willing to accept anything less than the best then he has a real problem.