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nalcar

Help! Advice on what would you do with this kitchen?

18 years ago

I am new to this forum but hope to get some advice...please...I have waited four years to be able to remodel this kitchen (I could go to maybe $30K) but licenced remodelers/contractors in my area have estimated $48 -$65K plus for floor, wood cabinets, granite counters, upgraded stainless appliances, electrical and plumbing, maybe opening the wall to the living/dining room etc. Am I being unrealistic? Even one KD who came recommended couldn't offer a better solution for my money than a cosmetic re-do...have only a small older modern home and dream of a sleek modern space that feels more spacious than it does now. The floorplan now is very awkward and very closed-in; and there is no room to expand the space. What should it cost to achieve a decent full remodel? Should I try to do some of this work myself? What would you change first in this kitchen?

{{gwi:1885842}}

Comments (10)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Your picture is not there. I think you may need a little more, but there are many factors which come into play.
    I completed our kitchen almost two years ago. What we did sounds a lot like what you would like to do. Gutted the original kitchen and an adjacent den to the studs to make a 25x12 kitchen. I created a second doorway, New electric (from the box), plumbing (moved as well), cathedral ceiling (14'), floor (Travertine), new wood cabinets, granite countertops, backsplash (Travertine), all new appliances, new baseboard and under cabinet heat (toekick heaters), and much more.

    There are many things that blow the budget fast like ceiling fans, high hats, hanging lighting over the peninsula, faucets, specialty cabinets (deep bin lazy susan corner base, extended drawers, soft close, etc.), I could go on and on. The quality of these items makes a difference too. You could go cheap but pay in the long run. There were little things we didn't count on like sealant for the backsplash and floor, they add up fast.

    Appliances alone could easily half your budget. We spent about 13K on them. The type and amount of cabinets. The type and length of your countertops. All come into play.

    I did all the demolition alone (don't forget cost of the dumpster, if you use one). My brother-in-law and I did all the carpentry and plumbing. I spackled and painted. Hired pro's for the floor, cabinet and countertop installation, and electric (including all appliance hookups).

    It came in at about 54K, smack dab in the middle of your estimates. I'm sure location plays also plays a small role.

    We wanted to do this for about 10 years. It is, by far, the most beautiful part of our home.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Here is the kitchen that I want to redo. As you can see it is small ( 11.5X12 plus small alcove) and very out of date. I can imagine doing work like you suggested; demo, etc... if I can spend only about 30K, do you think I should apportion most of the budget on layout changes ( moving things around) to improve flow or spend more on materials to create the best result?

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Since you want contemporary on a budget, have you considered using IKEA cabinets?

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Are there things you dislike about the function and flow? If they're significant complaints, I'd want to be sure and deal with layout changes first. Why have a beautiful new kitchen you don't like to work in? When you're working away, you see layout more than pretty materials.

    Can you draw a layout of the kitchen, including the room you might want to open into? If you just do a scale drawing, like pencil on graph paper, it'd be enough to get us started helping you.

    I actually think your space is cute and has definite possibilities, but it's easier to see the facts of the situation on a floor plan...and from what you tell us about your experience working in it.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi, Nalcar. That's a wonderful-looking space you have to work with there. I agree that layout changes come first, even if it means a phased redo, and the suggestion to check out Ikea is a good one for someone who wants a sleek modern look.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Here is my floorplan. Here are the negatives: Very closed-in/ trapped feeling isolated room ( plus no access to patio), a small door to get into the room from hallway and having to squeeze around the ovens to get into the main area. Don't need separate wall ovens? Useless small "desk" by door. No corner cabinet storage (empty area). Too small space for a regular 36" fridge. Positives: high beamed ceiling. Small table area is a plus. Convenient pantry/ laundry area ( plumbing cannot be relocated) with door to small walkway...Thats about it!...Should I open the space to the dining room? The wall that separates the rooms I'm told is NOT structural.

    {{gwi:1885770}}

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I'd take out the wall between the kitchen and DR, BUT -- I'd leave a peninsula end, topped with a nice wide counter that people could sit at. That's just me, I'm a big believe in keeping non-cooks out of my kitchen while I'm talking to them!

    I'd run cabs all across your cooktop wall, moving your cooktop, ovens (range would certainly be more efficient and allow more counterspace) to the right to give more "elbow room" between the cooking and the sink. If there's room, move the refrig to that wall, or to the W/D wall.

    Here's what you can do to save money:

    Plan to spend your $$ on electrical/plumbing and cabinets. Buy a good sink; they take a lot of abuse. Hold a 15% amount back to allow for budget overruns.

    Make sure your layout works for your lifestyle. Use cardboard boxes to figure out how much aisle clearance, work zones, cleaning and prep zones, etc., you need.

    Consider your appliances carefully. Anything that still works, KEEP it! A major kitchen remodel now returns only about 64% of value when it's within one year old. That value drops as time goes on, so don't overspend. You can easily replace appliances one at a time as they die.

    Sizes vary drastically on refrigerators. Not just width and depth, but height. Remember that your cabinets will outlast your appliances by a 3 to 1 ratio - there is nothing more frustrating than needing an additional one inch to fit a new appliance in, but no way to gain that extra room.

    Demo is something you can do yourself, with friends. Have someone qualified ON HAND to help with any electrical issues if you do demolish any walls.

    IKEA cabs are generally agreed to be the most economical and cost-effective from a quality standpoint, but there are considerable tradeoffs. You need to design it yourself, their cabs only work in 3" increments (Scherr's, for instance, builds in 1/2" increments), and any order mixups mean you personally have to deal with returns/standing in line/reorders. If you don't mind putting in the extra mental/sweat equity, then go to the IKEAfans website and immerse yourself in their world. You can do it yourself (with maybe a helpful friend or two); many people have done it successfully. You can also hire someone to put it all together for you; IKEA stores can refer you to contractors.

    Like appliances, your floors, countertops, faucets and backsplashes can be easily changed out later, when time and budget permit. Although I do recommend if you plan to do the floor later, that you rip out the old floor and subfloor, and have a proper new underlayment put in. Any handyman or contractor can do this for you, and it will save you much hassle if you do a budget flooring now and an upgrade later. Especially if you want a tile floor, it is critical to have the right subflooring.

    Semi-gloss enamel paint makes a perfectly adequate backsplash until you've got the $$ for what you want.

    Make sure you have a lighting plan; it is cheaper to run the electrical during construction rather than afterwards. Our county requires electrical be brought up to code during remodeling, so this can range from a few simple GFCI outlets ($5 ea) to a full new electrical panel (some $2K) to handle today's heavier utility load. Budget fixtures can always be changed out later.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Well, there are two ways to go about this. One is what you have already done, which is to say this is what I want, what is going to cost. The other way is to say, Ok, this is what I have to work with, how much can I get done with it? Unfortunately, a strict budget lends itself better to the latter than the former. One way you can save money is acting as your own GC. First, I would open up those two rooms and put new flooring throughout to unify the spaces. See how much money you will have left once the rooms are opened up, and go from there. When doing a kitchen on a budget, and I have done basically what you are talking about with less money, I found it worked best to set a priority list of what NEEDED to be done first. Since opening the rooms requires new flooring to tie the spaces together, start there. It will also make the biggest difference in how you feel about the space. Then decide if your cabinets are in worse shape or the appliances. Can you save any appliances? Just saving a refrig., which is what I did, will save you 1500.00-2500.00+. Make a list of which appliances you really NEED to replace right from the beginning and the minimum you would settle for in those appliances. You might be able to upgrade later if you save money elsewhere or find good sales, etc. But start assuming you won't. If you won't settle for less than a miele DW or a thermadore range you are in trouble on that budget. Look at GE, Kitchenaide and Kenmore, determine what features you REALLY want and get an idea of what they would cost. Then see what you have left for cabinets, pumbing, electrial as well as organizational goodies and cosmetics. If you can't spend much on plumbing and electrical, plan to keep the sink where it is, also the stove if you have a gas range. You have more leeway moving the stove for less expense if the stove is electric. Make sure you have planned for adequate lighting. UC lighting can be added later although it is easier and less expensive to do it before new cabinets go up. If you want recessed ceiling lights you really should plan for that expense up front and do it first. If budget dictated it you could always add plug in UC lights that you attach to the cabinets yourself. Then look at cabinets and layout with reasonably priced lines. Try Ikea for the best budget friendly cabinets. Then find out what a carpenter will charge to install them if you can't. Make it clear you are only going to do what you decide you can afford in the budget and want seperate prices for just the wall work and just the cabinet work. That way, he is not figuring in a large amt of money to GC all the rest.

    It takes a lot more planning and work on your part to do it for almost half the cost, but if you really want to you CAN do it.

    For me, it WAS a load bearing wall I wanted to open up and my estimate involved installing an I beam to carry the weight because of that. I decided to put in a 6' wide opeining instead of removing the wall completely because that would have meant messing with a lot more electrical and opening the ceiling to rewire the ceiling fan/light, etc. With the I beam, doing that cost me about 3000.00. Yours certainly should not be more, and may be less because it is mostly demo and cosmetic work afterwards, but watch out for electrical issues and consider scaling down your plans if that would increase costs greatly. For floors, I wanted hardwood but couldn't afford to have it completely installed, so I did the install myself, and saved a couple thousand. Whatever you want, look in the phone book for flooring contractors and start getting estimates yourself, rather than letting another contracter or kitchen design place do it, because they need to increase the price to also make a profit and account for their time to arrange and oversee it. Get recommendations from friends and family who have had wood floors, tile work or whatever done and were happy with it.

    Any place that sells cabinets should be able to help you with a layout, measure for the cabinets, etc. Then post the layout and plans here and you will get a lot of great ideas, critiques and help for free to fine tune your plan before committing yourself to it.
    Sue

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Here's my two cents' worth:
    1. Look hard at keeping appliances, and for what you must replace, look hard at Ebay and your local Craigslist. I was able to get a brand new Thermador for half price on ebay. (That and the granite were the big splurges -- everything else was mass market appliance brands.) You can replace appliances later if they are standardized sizes OR plan now for what you will want later. Certain appliances -- DW, cooktop, wall ovens -- are standard sizes, while fridge and MW sizes vary considerably.
    2. Look hard at whether you need double ovens, and consider a range in place of a cooktop instead.
    3. Listen to Sue ct's suggestions above -- she has one of the most expensive-looking, detailed, beautiful kitchens I've ever seen for one of the lowest prices I've ever heard. There are a number of DIY people on this forum who have accomplished amazing things for astoundingly small budgets.
    4. Consider enlarging the doorway instead of replacing the menu desk with another cabinet, if you don't need the space. I posted a thread here about 6 weeks ago (search menu desk) that you can review, but if you already know you don't want it, you're one step ahead in your planning.
    5. Can you put the W & D into the pantry space (you'd need to do something to keep them from protruding into the hallway) and remove the wall and create a pantry space? I defer to rhome and other layout pros.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    When I saw your peaked ceiling, immediately I thought about this kitchen. It's gorgeous.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Peaked ceiling kitchen