Maybe try:

Pack everything in the kitchen. What you go looking for is pulled out and stays, what sits in the boxes by moving time goes to the charity shop (or whatever you decide).

That's a good idea. Out of sight, out of mind.

As someone who downsized, and a former Manhattan resident, it helps.

If you have a family of 4, you just need like 8 place settings, and you wash a lot, or have an 18-inch dishwasher that you run every night after dinner, if you have room. You can even count that as a "cabinet" and almost never unload it. Use the same set for company. You don't need a lot of serving bowls, just a couple, and a salad bowl. If you throw a party, borrow.

Take the 3 or 4 pots you use all the time. Store then inside the stove, along with the iron. (New York trick.)

Don't play "what if" (what if I have to poach a salmon!) or you'll end up with a bain marie hanging from the shower rod!

Because most people end up walking to work, they pass a food shop, so they don't need to devote lots of space to store a week's groceries, just a couple of days' and some staples.

It's New York, so most things you can buy faster and easier than you can make them, so you don't need a juicer, pasta machine, bread machine or just about any appliance that you don't use constantly. Many would argue you don't even need to make coffee -- you can get it downstairs before the water's boiled.

Heirlooms and things you know you'll want later -- give them to a relative to hold. They don't need to be in your apartment, and you don't want to pay NYC storage prices.

I can also remind you with an unfortunate fact of NYC life. In large buildings, even nice ones, it is VERY common to have vermin. It is not a reflection of your housekeeping, or your neighbor's housekeeping, there is just a lot of hollow space in the buildings, and they're there.

So New Yorkers eat out/take out a LOT. It's just tidier.

Feel less tempted to cook?

(Sorry.)

You're going to love it!

You need only one item in a NYC kitchen: a 9 x 12 envelope for the take-out menus. ;-)

All kidding aside, I lived in Manhattan for 15 years. I think you'll find that it's a complete lifestyle overhaul more than it is a downsizing. You don't just live in your apartment, you live in your neighborhood. The kitchen only needs one of each item instead of doubles and triples. So instead of three different colanders and 4 lasagna pans and two sets of flatware, you'll have one of each. Okay, maybe you'll have three mixing bowls, but that's the only thing I can think of that you'll need more than one of. Also, you'll find that you don't keep as much food in the house. I used to have a few staples (olive oil, spices, sugar, milk, flour, etc.), but for the most part I bought whatever I needed on a daily basis. It's not hard to do because you don't drive from place to place. So, as you are getting off the subway or bus and walking to your building you'll pass a small market and run into grab what you need. Have fun. I'm jealous!

Ha! I saw growlery's post after I posted! Pretty much the same advice, although I left out the last tidbit.

I lived there a while back (okay, a long while back!) and adored it. Since then, I moved to a place where there is not much food, and I thus have become a cooking addict. I doubt I'll be willing to give it up entirely! No bread machine, just the kitchenaid. A big pot rack will help, because most of the pots will go there. Packing and seeing what I want is a great idea, Fig.

Sorta OT, but I just have to say regarding Susanuws comment, "You don't just live in your apartment, you live in your neighborhood"....that was the very first impression/thing that struck me most and strongest about NYC when we visited last year. Our city is nothing like that! It's so uniquely NYC and I love it. When there, I commented to hubby that I can't picture anyone ever eating at home living in Manhattan :-).

Hey everyone, as a Brooklynite, I am feeling compelled to chime in here with a couple of very, very serious observations!:

1. NYC is comprised of FIVE boroughs (Brooklyn, Bronx, Staten Island, Queens and Manhattan), not just Manhattan! :-)

2. Many of the world's best chefs have arisen out of the teeny, teeny kitchens in NYC! (Although moi is not included) :-) :-)

Meanwhile, Palomalou, speaking of great chefs in tiny kitchens of NYC, check out this little piece on the well-known chef Mark Bittman discussing kitchen efficiency. The accompanying photo of him laboring away in his Lilliputian kitchen, as well as the reader comments, are also worth noting.

HTH (LOL!)

Here is a link that might be useful: A NYC Kitchen for Great Cooking

Just in case you don't click on all the sublinks in the article above, here's the one that will retrieve the original interview with Bittman on this subject.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mark Bittman on Small Kitchens

Another Manhattan resident with a small kitchen, scroll down to read parts 1, 2, and 3 of his "transformation" ($300 for shelving, I think!)

Here is a link that might be useful: Paul Hope's kitchen

marthavila & idrive65, I enjoyed the links so much to the two small kitchens of these people who do work in the kitchen for a living. Thank you for sharing.

Another Brooklynite here. We did the kitchen downsizing thing when our home renovation started and we had to move to three different sublets in the space of six months. Not knowing how each kitchen would be outfitted, I packed a Kitchen Essentials box for the two of us: 4 plates, 4 bowls, 4 sets of flatware, two sharp knives, 8 drinking glasses (DH always has 2-3 going at any one time), 2 wine glasses, 2 coffee mugs, 1 small and one large pot, 1 small and one large saute pan, a salad/mixing bowl, 1 baking dish, a cutting board, a corkscrew and a couple of wine stoppers, a rubber spatula, a regular spatula and a couple of serving/mixing spoons. We've been living out of that box for over a year now (back in the house but the reno's still not done, so the rest of the kitchen is still packed away). The only additions I'd make would be a colander and a salad spinner. Since we've been back in the house, we also use a coffee maker, a kettle for tea and the toaster. That's it.

It's surprising how little you need to function if you're a basic cook like me.

growlery mentions the dishwasher. If possible I love the idea of the d/w drawers. I read somewhere that the orginal idea for these was based on the fact that there was limited cupboard space for dishes, etc. So the one drawer was for dirty dishes, the other for clean--you just took them out of the clean drawer, used them, moved them to the dirty drawer, ran it when full. (Presumably this is when the clean one was empty). And just continue this process of moving between the two.

I love NYC, I have never lived there though.

I would be careful of buying too much new stuff, but some of those nifty folding silicone things like those colanders that collapse flat, I would think make a lot of sense.

But it only makes sense if you replace 2 or 3 things you use all the time that take up 3 cubic feet of space with 2 or 3 things you use all the time that now take up less than 1 cubic foot of space, that you can now use to make room for something absolutely essential, like the Kitchenaid that you say you use all the time.

But you'll figure it out. You may move in with a lot of stuff, then have a purge 3 months later. Or not. Only you will know what is important to you, and what you're willing to make room for in your life.

Good luck!

I LOVE the links! I actually had my heart set on a place in upper Manhattan as well, but what we could afford was too small (not in the kitchen, but in other ways.) We found more space for within our budget in a transitional neighborhood on the east side. And that's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. I feel blessed now seeing those two links, because ours is palatial comparatively---er, if you call 9x8 palatial! My plans are to replace cabinets (they don't go all the way to the ceiling) with taller ones, remove the apartment-side wall and increase the penninsula. Other thoughts will come later...So yes, this structural type stuff is EXACTLY what I was looking for. In my UWS kitchen which had 2.5 ftx7 inches total counter space I made croissants and bread by hand.

I have no advice and no NYC living experience but I'm fascinated by the idea and love seeing how people live in NYC. So of course I was interested to see what this was all about. All I can say is - this is more evidence that we don't "need" 42-48 inch aisles in kitchens.....

I've lived in Manhattan with small kitchens all my life. I wrote a cookbook from a tiny inside kitchen with no vent or window.

Don't try to plan. Forget about the usual appliances. Bring your clothes and your every day stuff and a skeleton kitchen -- I mean next to nothing -- and pack everything else. Unpack as needed because you'll have so many demands on your time at first it's not likely to matter. Forget about appliances unless you have space. With due respect to my pal marthavilla Brooklyn is another country (they have cars to put things in).

I use my toaster, microwave and electric kettle mostly. (maybe I'll use my new stove more than the old one).

If you need a point of rethinking here it is: what can you carry in shopping bags, by yourself, and how far can you carry it?

The grocery store in my neighborhood is a combat zone and, frankly, it's cheaper and less wasteful to order prepared food or buy it (though that depends on the neighborhood to a great extent). A hot cooked chicken delivered can cost less than a raw chicken I have to prepare. A whole Japanese dinner, delivered, is the same price as a pound of fish.

Manhattan is more like Europe than America, in a way. For most people it's a love-it-or-hate-it. Try to embrace the changes and relax. Anything you really "need" is usually just a block away.

One of my best friends lives on the east side. When I was lamenting the horrors of my old kitchen, she said, "Honey, when you have less than 2ft of counter you can b!tch." I'd list off what she keeps in her kitchen, but I don't know how useful it would be since she tends to save most of her caloric intake for wine.

LOL to what rococogurl said regarding delivery. A funny story. When I was living in the city as a young, single woman, I had a bare-bones kitchen -- which meant no microwave. My grandmother wanted to buy me a microwave as a gift. My response to her: "No thank you, grandma. My food already comes to the door hot!"

Hmmm, maybe you are right, Roc. With my humongous 11' x 14' galley kitchen in the country of Brooklyn, I guess you might say the dimensions of my NYC kitchen are rather baronial. As a matter of fact, those generous proportions give me enough space for a galley that has the critical appliances, plus 30+ sf of counterspace, plus 11 cabs, plus a "bistro" area with a 29" bistro table and 2 cafe chairs. Talk about living large! Woo hoo! LOL!

Interestingly enough, both the smallest and largest kitchens I've ever had were when I lived in Manhattan and both were in brownstone townhouses. The smallest one was in my first apartment and I was living single in a 1BR on the upper west side. The minute you walked in the door, you were in the kitchen. It had one straight run with a stove, sink and fridge with 3 little upper cabs. I would whip out a little plywood board and place it over the sink whenever I needed a counter. And, that was it. No more kitchen. Walk 3 steps ahead and you were in the bathroom and three steps to the left, you were in the living room. The big one came along, years later when married with family. It was a duplex brownstone apartment in Harlem where the kitchen was one whole half of the garden floor. Now, that was an amazingly large NYC kitchen! Had all kinds of counterspace, floor space and windows. We even had space for a 5' oval dining table with 4 swivel chairs in the center of the room. Boy, those were the days of big NYC kitchen living for me! :-) Nowadays, as an empty nester and single again, I'm finding that my current little kitchen works just fine (although I admit to still salivating over the many large and gorgeous "family style" kitchens I see here on GW).

martha my darling, I've seen the pix and you have a Kitchen in a palazzo. (please note the capital K). Plus, admit it, you have a car.

LOL@susanuws -- she gets it totally.

What I'm wondering, Zeebee, is how you've managed with only two wine glasses?? Now, THOSE I would need in quantity!

Eliz

Hi palomalou!!! And welcome to NYC!!!

I've lived here my whole life and never had the opportunity to downsize my kitchen - it's *always* been tiny!!! But it works really well. Very efficient.

For example, I can unload my dishwasher (18" - the 24" didn't fit) by standing in front of my sink and swiveling - dishes go in the cabinet above the sink. Glasses in the cabinet over the dishwasher. Silverware in the drawer behind me. Coffee mugs in the cabinet opposite the dishwasher. I barely have to move! (This is why so many NY'ers belong to gyms - you don't get ANY exercise at home.)

Cooking is easy, too. Stuff from the fridge goes on the countertop next to the sink, gets washed, gets thrown into the skillet on the stove next to the sink. This one goes beyond a swivel, it's more like a sideways shuffle.

As for cabinet space - well, I managed to cram quite a bit into my 7x10 galley kitchen. I have 3 lowers plus a sink base, 8 uppers, and a broom closet. Would I like more, still? Sure. But this works.

Oh, and I do have a coffee maker, and a toaster oven. I plan to get a new blender soon. Plenty of room on my now very spacious counter tops. (Hey, you should have seen the place *before* I renovated it!!!)

Yeah, and what everyone's saying about small frequent grocery trips? Yup. I need very little space for pantry items. My main grocer is right outside my subway stop. (He's 24-hour, too!)

Greets to all my Manhattan and Brooklyn friends! I'm a Queens gal myself.

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Charlikin, I love your pics! What are and where did you get your cabinets?

My cabinets are Kraftmaid Ginger Glaze Maple - it's a wide shaker style.

It took me *forever* to choose them - I kept thinking I wanted a light-colored maple because it was such a small kitchen and I was afraid anything darker would make it look even smaller. But I didn't like any of the light-colored cabinets I saw, and I finally realized what really felt like "my kitchen" in all the pictures I looked at were the medium-colored cabinets. And I had seen this Ginger Glaze on display in all the Home Depots in town and loved it, and so that finally became IT. (Though I bought them at an independent shop, not HD.)

I think they turned out okay, even in a tiny kitchen. ;-)

First, keep rarely-used cookware, accessories, and small appliances outside the kitchen. Maximize cabinet space with items like cup hooks that hang from the shelf above, or pull-out broom holders that retract several mops and brooms into a tall but narrow space usually between the fridge and the adjoining wall.

For renovations, use:

* A 12"w or 15"w cooktop with two burners

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* Be creative with the venting for these. They don't make a 12" or 15"w range hood, although you can buy separate exhaust fans and construct your own with cabinet parts. At times there's been a 22" or 24"w over-the-range microwave oven available. Or you can use a downdraft vent to the side, which chews up only a few inches of countertop, although quite a bit of space below it.

* Install an instant-hot water dispenser on the sink. This will negate the need for a tea kettle using up one of your two burners.

* A single-drawer dishwasher - 24"w but only 16" to 18"h

Fisher & Paykel make the best ones. But mount it not directly below the cabinet, but rather 6" or 4" below the underside of the countertop, using the space above the DW for a drawer and if space is available, below the DW for another drawer. Now you'll have a handy 24"w drawer for utensils perfectly located next to the sink at the most convenient height, with a roll-out dishwasher below that, and a drawer at the bottom for cookware. Full-height, 18"w dishwashers are another option - several good ones are available now.

* For the fridge, use one of the tall free-standing 24"w, 24"d, 80+"h fridges with freezer on bottom - they're reasonably cheap and are great space savers. 27"w models are also available.

Or get a 30" or 32"w all-refrigerator, and a separate undercounter freezer. You'll have a huge fridge that takes up the same (or less) space than most conventional fridge/freezer combined units.

* The sink should be a bit smaller than the usual 22"w, and the drain should be offset to the side, the back, or (best of all) the rear side corner. That way, not only do plates not cover up the drain, but the sink disposer, which is always directly below the drain, won't intrude much on the cabinet below.

Find one thats about 20" in the long dimension and mount it sideways, so it doesn't use up much width but still gives you a standard-sized sink. If need be, run the sink all the way back to the wall, and use either a wallmount faucet or a single-hole deck-mount faucet in one of the back corners.

* One way or another, get the microwave off the countertop.

* Look for space where additional cabinets or shelves can be installed without getting in anyone's way. Several options are available for making good use of corner cabinets - trays that pull into sight when you open the door, etc.

I lived in Manhattan for about 13 years and loved it! I miss that lifestyle so much! I did have a kitchen that had a lot of storage compared to others, so I was lucky. But one thing you will definitely need are plastic storage containers for things like cereal, pasta, sugar, flour, rice etc. As someone else said, no matter how clean you are, there are still vermin in those city walls and you DON'T want to have any open boxes in your cupboards. Good luck!

Apartment Therapy is a site that has good, stylish advice for apartment dwellers.

Unfortunately, I find the site so poorly organized that I can never find anything when I go looking for it! But they do have regular features on tiny (and tinier, and even tinier!) city kitchens. They even run competitions on the topic. But you may need to poke around for awhile to find them.

Per Lee's advice above, I own a 24" Liebherr and love it. You adjust. Most people just fill huge fridges up with huge jars of condiments that shouldn't really be kept that long anyway. Think of it as discipline to keep a tidy fridge.

Wait a minute, how small is this kitchen? And how concerned are you about resale value? You don't want to get too crazy minimizing the size of things when (a) really, it all will fit, and (b) a two-burner cooktop may be adequate for you but not for anyone you'd want to sell the apartment to.

My kitchen is tiny by anyone's standards, yet I have a 30" fridge and a 30" range. I have an 18" dishwasher, which is perfectly adequate - I splurged on mine and got the Miele which has a separate cutlery tray so I don't need to take up space in the bottom rack for a silverware basket. A single-drawer dishwasher wouldn't have worked for me since I didn't have the 24" width.

Venting is tough as most NYC buildings will not let you vent to the outside. I have an OTR microwave with recirculating filter - not ideal, but better than nothing. If you have room to put the microwave elsewhere (or don't need one), you can put a recirculating hood over the stove - it might work slightly better than the vent on the microwave.

I would *not* get a non-standard size oTR microwave as there are practically none available (even fewer models than there are 18" dishwashers!), and I would be concerned about replacing it if it broke. That's one of the reasons I didn't consider a 24" range - I couldn't find a 24" OTR m/w to put over it.

You don't need to get a tiny sink. Really, unless your kitchen is way smaller than mine, you'll probably have at least a 24" sink base, and you'll be able to fit a standard size single sink. Mine is about 22" x 16" in a 27" sink base; Blanco also makes one that's slightly smaller for a 24" sink base. (I think they might have been able to fit my sink in a 24" sink base if they notched the sides of the cabinet.)

Palomalou - I haven't been checking the forum that frequently - have you posted a floorplan?

Charlikin, I laughed out loud at the first line of your post! I had been thinking the exact same thing but had been so otherwise carried away with everyone's great advice on this thread I never got around to asking it. But you really have asked the most important question of all:

Just how big (or little) is this kitchen you are moving into, Palomalou?

And, while you're at it, why don't you tell us what kind of building you're in? Small house co-op or condo? Large, pre-war apartment building? Modern, dense high rise? How much leeway will you have to do structural modifications? And, are you even interested in doing structural modifications? Is the kitchen contained or in an open floor plan? What's the current floor plan? How many people will be using this kitchen? Any young children involved?

You get the idea! We want more info from you, Palomalou! This is the GW Kitchen/TKO forum after all. And we won't be satisfied until we're totally all involved in your life and have you thinking kitchen, kitchen, kitchen nonstop. LOL!

One of my favorite blogs is run out of a small NYC kitchen with no counter space. Although I think she just moved to a different apartment.

Here is a link that might be useful: Smitten Kitchen

Update: The attorney did not like some of the financials of the first place we had negotiated for (the kitchen of which would have had to be renovated), so we have negotiated for the upper Manhattan place, the kitchen of which is excellent, the apartment a bit smaller than ideal. AND this place is 20% less expensive. Hooray!

Well that sounds like very good news! Hope this works out for you. Though, you do know that wherever you end up, you will have to share photos of your kitchen, right? :-)

Pictures....hmmmm.......DH lost or had stolen our digital camera. Maybe with the new phone???

Aha....it's like this one, and in this building:

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen

Very nice palomalou.

I'm mid-reno in my apartment kitchen right now. It's much more difficult in the city and scary messy so if you have one done that's so much for the best.

Don't have pix of anything finished yet -- just a virtual.

That looks very nice, Palomalou. Congratulations on going "home" to Manhattan. That kitchen's going to invite you to use for a lot more than unpacking takeout. I love living in the country. What'd be really nice to have, though, would be a weekend place down the block from you. :)

Hey, that looks nice! And total agreement with rococogurl - avoiding having to do a reno in NYC is a big +++PLUS+++!!!

Congratulations!