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DIYers: Permits & Inspections

16 years ago

I'm curious about how the process went for you DIY kitchen remodelers. It won't be long before we go for permits. We'll be doing most of the work ourselves on a project that involves taking down a non-bearning wall, removing pantry closet, an entirely different layout. We will be hiring an electrician and lucky for us our best friend is a plumber! (:

Would love to hear about your experiences with Permits and Inspections, good or bad.

Comments (10)

  • 16 years ago

    The main thing I have to offer is just to try to request the same inspector both times (or all of the times, if you have more than two inspections). Most of the people I know who've run into problems have ended up there because a new inspector called something the first one didn't, or had a request or interpretation of code that the first one didn't, etc.

    Other than that, you probably know the basic rules already, but the biggie is just to never, ever cover anything that might need to be inspected until after you've gotten the thumbs up. That's the other place people sometimes run into trouble---but since you're DIY'ing it, you have control of that.

    I'd also write into the electrician's contract that all of the work must pass inspection for final payment. You might also ask him to be there for the inspection, if you weren't already planning on that. When we did our electrical system, our electrician knew most of the inspectors and had a good rapport with them, and they absolutely looked less carefully at things because they knew/trusted him than they might have if we'd been there on our own. (That could also be a downside depending on the work, of course!)

  • 16 years ago

    Most permitting offices are quite good about working with DIY applicants. Remember that you are paying for their service so take advantage of their input--free advice.

    You do need drawings and your drawings have to be good enough to show what you are doing, but do not have to be professional. Take any input and incorporate it, most places you can do this on the spot.

  • 16 years ago

    We have been tortured and put through the ringer while filing papers for our extension/reno. We had a variance approved 3 years ago and let it lapse last summer when I decided not to pay another $125 to keep it current since I thought we'd have to wait several more years (one of the dumbest moves I have ever made, EVER!).
    So, since we had been approved, it should be a piece of cake, right? Well, I have been to the town 3 times in the past 3 weeks(half hour trip each way, several hours shuttling between depts each time), and got a call yesterday telling us that 3 more parts of our application need fixing in order to even file the papers. One thing is the EXACT opposite of what the SAME guy told me 2 weeks ago and we had complied with only to be now told we wasted $175 on a new survey for nothing and have to change things back to how they were. I could see if we had dealt with different people who have different approaches, but this was the same guy, trying to be helpful both times and saying completely different advice. I carefully tried to remind him of what he had said and read my notes that I had taken while he dictated them to me. I had to back off when he started to seem like he thought I was starting to be ungrateful for his help and unappreciative that he had called to warn me before I got the letter outlining the current craziness. It is not like I can change the town employees and fire anyone if I am not satisfied. They really have you and you need to do what they say.
    The funny part is we have a GC (not DIY), and last time paid the architect to deal with the town (bye bye to that money). This time, I figured we'd be a shoe in since a bigger plan had been approved before and we were submitting the same plan minus a new front porch, without adding a reverse gable to the front half of the house and going with a single french door instead of a pair. Should have been a walk in the park...
    Our GC says he has tried to tell homeowners how bad the town is to deal with and they never get the extent of it. I think he is almost happy to have me as proof of how ridiculous the system is!
    Our architect id exasperated and I am afraid will bill us for making yet another required change (esp since it is to fix what we thought was "fixed" before). In any case, he sits on the revisions and slows us down at each blip.

    Now, your town may be full of simple rules and well defined instructions, but that is not what we deal with here. Be prepared and stock up on sangria, beer or the beverage of choice ;)

  • 16 years ago

    Practice saying "Yes, we will do that." It can be frustrating as dianalo said, but you might as well say that the first time. Arguing is pretty useless.

    The people in the permit office have varying levels of power madness and believe me, just be a marine and be silent or say "yes sir". Its sorta like talking to your high school principle, but you have even less power.

    Be prepared and know what you will do. I have enough background to answer any questions and understand what they want. (I have so totally given up asking why) I have a generally working knowledge of framing, electric, plumbing, the systems in the house, finishing, etc. I was asked about all of them. There is no such thing as answering "the framing guy will take care of it" here. If its your permit, EVERYTHING is your problem. You can subcontract it, but its design is still your problem.

    For our kitchen, we had to supply 14 separate drawings not including the cabinets, wiring or plumbing.The permit office had asked for each and every one. After looking at them, they took half and set those aside and created the permit from the other half. I ended up doing the required ones for the plumber and electrician to take for their permits.

    If you really don't like what you're being told and the permits office is large enough, sometimes you can play roulette and come back later in hopes of getting someone else. That has worked for us, but you could lose all your chips.

    The on site inspectors have been uniformly polite, informative, helpful and the only time anything failed - correct!

  • 16 years ago

    We've found it helpful to talk to neighbors, etc. about the standard pitfalls and personalities. No need to go into that office entirely naive.

    There's a reason for some of the madness. One of our inspectors has told us horror stories about houses which have been plundered for copper or have endured other indignities caused by desperate homeowners trying to pay another month's overpriced mortgage. Also, people have been bypassing the official inspections and doing stuff without expertise to just get by; when the inspector finally comes, the mess is so awful that it has to be undone and they are expected to start over, which of course has produced strife. What I'm saying is that it is not unusual for the permitters' patience to have been destroyed long before you walk into the office. It's like social workers, etc. With all the layoffs in local gov't, those who are survivors may have a large caseload of tough cases. Your compliance and answers are a test of your good faith and how much bother and emotional lunacy your project will be for them.

    Although DIY, we used a local contractor X's design service. We got plans including one set to give the permitting office and they delivered it for us. The company's name on the plans was an open-sesame for things; as long as X had generated the ideas and drawings, we were just fine. Their name is even on the permit! Even when somebody else had made the inevitable mistakes or when we made alterations, my DH's happy personality and openness to take advice and the X drawings made things roll well. DH believes in the coffee and donuts and schmooze school of human relations, which also might be helpful when inspectors visit.

    But...we're not done yet. Lots more work because there is a whole new roof, siding, windows, driveway in the works. Hope the charm continues to hold. For another year? gulp.

  • 16 years ago

    Thank you for your prospectives, all very interesting and some great advice!

    dianalo, I am very sorry to hear about the headaches and heartaches your town is putting you through.

  • 16 years ago

    it really all depends, Assuming you have a plumber and electrician, as long as you don't mess with supporting walls, you're pretty much golden.

    In my area any remodel of an exisiting space you're supposed to get a permit for, but 90% of the people don't.

    In my area most permits are gotten b/c you're adding something, whether it be a bathroom, additional bedrooms or family room etc.

    I'm getting one on my new house with addition b/c of the addition. in the past I've done general interior renvation without the permit, since its not changing any footprint its just renewing we've been fine.

  • 16 years ago

    I would suggest that you find out what codes your local jurisdiction follows, and then buy the Codecheck books.

    Nothing like knowing the basics of the code ahead of time. Also, there are differences in codes. For example not all codes allow air admittance valves. So, in these cases, you can talk to your local officials to get the ruling before you invest time and energy.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Codecheck.

  • 16 years ago

    Thank you for the book suggestion. I see that our local library carries many of the Code Check titles! (:

  • 16 years ago

    If you are changing electrical, plumbing, and removing a wall you definitely need a permit. It may not seem like a big deal now, but there are problems that could come up in the future with insurance or resale of the house.

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