Have you definitely decided on this GC?

leela4...

Well, since I've gone through so many of them over the course of that past 5 or 6 years... Nobody wanted to deal with my "issues", I guess. Things were great. They had clients lined up all the way around the block. They were unwilling to take on "problematic" situations where they couldn't just "hit and run". Didn't have to. They had work lined up for months in advance. (Remember those days?!)They'd come to the door, ask what's on my new kitchen "wish list", measure, leave, and I'd never hear from them again. Finally tired of the disappointment and gave up. Until now.

Anyway, in answer to your question...no contract/proposal presented yet, so I'm not "obligated" to him or anything. He comes very higly recommended by a friend of my husband. It's not the GC I'm feeling pressured by. I haven't heard from him in almost 3 weeks. He's supposed to get back to us with some numbers. Imagine he hasn't prepared anything yet or he'd call, dontcha think? No "pressure" there.

No, it's not normal to build a room to cabinet specifications, and it's not OK for a KD to pressure you into making decisions without all the information you need. I walked away from two KDs who were all about closing the sale rather than getting my kitchen to meet my needs (for function and budget). I ended up with a custom cabinetmaker who did everything exactly as I wanted for less than half the cost of the KD's cabinets. If I were you, I'd keep shopping for a new KD.

Tell the KD to back off until you have the addition planned with all the STRUCTURAL questions resolved, then the cabinets can be fitted to the space. And make sure you get more than one bid, and check a couple of local "custom" cabinetmakers because they are often the most cost-effective.

Moving waste pipes is possible but expen$ive!

You might have to do some exploratory surgery to expose the header and see where the waste pipes go.

It doesn't sound normal to me either. We didn't order cabinets until things were framed/gutted and ready to be plumbed and electrical done. 6 weeks lead time on the cabs and we still ended up pushing them out since plumbing and electrical and drywall and all that take a long time. To order them before you know what you are working with would be just wrong ;) Heck, you may end up wtih a big structural beam or something you have to work into the design.

With our addition the cabinets will be measured and ordered after the drywall is in place. Actually placing an order before the room in question exists would give me nightmares! It's not normal. Don't do it.

Anything you do in the fog of a panic you will most likely come to regret. Its happened to me EVERYTIME. Eventually you will realize that you run the show and these people work for you. You absolutely don't have to do anything you don't feel comfortable with. When in doubt take out the time and do more independent research. This forum is awesome for that as you are doing now.

Another thing that I have come to realize is that the so called pros are knowledgeable yes but none of them care about your kitchen half as much as you do. Always keep that in mind. Because you care there are a lot of times when you will actually be in the right although you are not a pro. Either way research everything twice including what the pros tell you. Their goal is to finish the job and cash the check. Your's is different

All I can say is I hear you. We are having problems even getting a quote back from a contractor. It's been a revolving door, but only 1 written estimate and 1 verbal. Not sure if they see the job and hate it or if they are all so busy right now and want us to keep pestering them so they know we are serious before they develop some sort of estimate. (Or maybe they don't like the idea that we've already got a cabinetmaker lined up...not sure if they are losing some "cushion" on markups on cabinets, countertops, etc.)

I agree with checking with a cabinetmaker. We are actually in a position where we have a cabinetmaker and no contractor. We checked with HD and my cabinetmaker is cheaper and we get things built to our specifications and our kitchen (no fillers or wasted space).

Thank you to all who responded.

holligator---I knew it didn't "feel right" to build the room to the cabinet specs. Matter of fact, seems @$$backwards to me. There are structural "issues" here. I assume that's why I never heard back from all the KDs/GCs during their booming heydays (years).

muscokaspc---I'm having nightmares alright---when I actually sleep, that is.

marcydc---Now *that's* the way it should be done! Gut the room, see what problems rear their ugly heads, solve them, drywall and *then* place the cabinet order to fit the room. Sounds perfect to me! But of course I'm not a GC or KD, so what do I know?

padola07---Constantly researching. Every single thing. To death. That's my usual MO. Just a whole lot worse where my kitchen is concerned. I research to the point of paralysis, then can't make any decision at all. It's turning out that appliances are a particular problem for me. I find something that piques my interest, come home, log onto the GW Appliance Forum for purposes of "research". There isn't one, single line I've investigated that someone (usually *many*) on Appliance Forum tells you to avoid after recounting their horror story.

Funny thing. I forget exactly how it came up in the phone conversation, but basically responded to the KD by saying something to the effect that of course (what ever the subject was) didn't matter to him. He doesn't have to live with the kitchen afterward, but I do. He was *not* pleased. Detected some (possibly feigned, ya' think?) "why-how-can-you-possibly-say-that-to-me-I-most-certainly-do-care-about-your-kitchen-it's-my-reason-for-living" hurt feelings even. :-)

While I'm here, may I ask if anyone has a long, narrow kitchen that they have successfully designed to their liking. The 19.5 depth of the room (if this project comes together this time) is more than adequate for me. It's the 13.5 ft. width of the room that has me stumped. Kind of bordering on bowling alley-ish. Over the course of the 5-6 years I have been trying to get a new kitchen built, I have denuded several forests-worth of graph/printer paper attempting to come up with a design myself. Could have probably already bought and paid for this project with what I've spent on mechanical pencils and printer ink!

My current kitchen is 11x11 and the addition is about 10 x 16, ending in a roughly L shape, or really more of a fish hook. Instead of an island with a prep area and seating, I have both of these features against the walls. I had the best luck with moving paper cutouts as a design technique, but I had to lay it out lifesize in the yard, too.

I paid a design/build firm about $2000 for a design. My builder knows these homes - he has done dozens in the neighborhood. But he still poked a hole in the wall here and there as part of the design process. He's got stakes in the backyard so he can have a serious discussion with the landscaper and excavator (hillside issues).

A deposit for a design is not unreasonable. A contract for the whole project is premature. It's like pulling out into traffic - don't ever do it until you are fully ready. If you still have questions, you could offer him a deposit to get your questions answered, instead of going straight to contract. Deep breath, take charge, decide what needs to happen next to satisfy you, and be ready to negotiate for it.

Try posting a blank slate of your proposed space to see what some here can come up with. Check the "Read Me" thread for more information on posting it and the information needed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!

I am on the downhill side of my two story 8 ft addition. Original kitchen was 19 x 12, addition makes it 19 x 20. I purchased chief architect software a few years ago (the inexpensive version, very reasonable) and had been drawing layouts on it. The software allows you to really visualize the furnished kitchen. I finally settled on a couple plans that I showed to GCs who were able to visualize the project and provide rough estimates for construction and cabinets. They based cabinet estimates on the feet of cabinets and medium grade. I selected a GC, estimates were firmed up into a contract. Official Plans were drawn up from my initial Chief Architect drawings. The cabinets were written up as a cost plus item. You may want the flexibility to shop around for cabinets and purchase them on your own from whomever you want. If so, make sure the contract allows for that.

foxy01,
In response to your comment about finding horror stories about your appliance choices. Okay I also research to paralysis and what I have realized is that there is at least one really bad scary review for EVERYTHING on the internet. Try reading the reviews of the appliances or anything else that you do have and then ask yourself if its really as bad as it reads.

Even oxygen gets a few bad reviews on the internet.

However what you get from research is knowledge. More knowledge is always better than less

Foxy01, So much of what you're posting is now in progress in my kitchen.

We decided our project had two parts: the structural, and then everything else. We removed some ceiling and wall patches early on to get an idea of what we'd be facing once the structural work started.
We hired an engineering to design the structural changes and then interviewed framers/carpenters with good structural experience who knew how to translate engineering drawings and calculations into reality. We just buried a beam into floor joists because I told the engineer to design it that way.

I hired a KD to help me draw up floor plans and cabinet elecations to fit the space, with and without the structural changes. Cost $1200 and worth twice that.

I'm my own GC and the subs that are working out the best are the ones who listen well, are responsive, & willing to talk through issues to find the best solution. Its concerning that you're not feeling good about your KD and that your GC is AWOL.

You realize that the GC or KD are marking up everyone's work, including the cabinetry sub right? If you find your own they don't get the markup but you get exactly what you want. Angie's list is a great resource for contractors and subs. Word of mouth, too. I'm getting 3 estimates on everything.

I'd consider getting a new KD and maybe a new GC too. I haven't read any issue in your post that's impossible so if I were you I'd be asking myself ... what's the nut? Are you changing the scope? Are there still too many variables to create a scope? Are you changing your mind too much? Unable to create a vision that others can turn into a plan? That's what a good KD can help do.

One KD (read cabinet sales gal) proposed manufactured cabinets for a price that turned out to be exactly double the price of the fully custom cabinets I recently ordered. I found my own cabinet guy. He won't finalize measurements for the breakfast corner uppers until the plumber finishes moving the drain line and water pipes and duct work we discovered inside the wall we removed. That was our plan from the beginning; finish the structural work and then plan the cabinets around them. Turns out moving the pipes will be easy; moving the drain line will leave a small bump out behind one upper but I expected that.

I did a lot or preplanning like you did. ItÂs overwhelming at first to have so much to learn and wrap your arms around. To capture those swirling questions, write them down, sort them into categories and then do what you do well: research until you're satisfied, document your results and check 'em off one by one. Set up files by category. Talk to others who have done their kitchens, subs you are considering, friends in the renovation business & yes, this forum.

Good you have a solid recommendation for your GC but I encourage you to find someone you feel you can work with; preferably someone who wants your business, that you have personally referenced, and who returns your calls and emails.

Hold onto your deposit money until you have the right people for the job and can foresee yourself working with them throughout the project. Don't let anyone pressure you to sign anything, including your check. Good luck, Foxy01. It will be wonderful when you come out the other side with the new kitchen.