As to styling, I would need to ask some questions first. What is your goal? Do you want it to look like a tree in the bonsai fashion? Do you want it to look tall, loose and gangly like it does now, or are you looking for something shorter, more compact?

As to repotting at the same time, if it is in reasonable health yes you could. If not, I think the repot would take precedence over pruning since you described the current soil in such unflattering terms ~:-]

If it were mine, I would cut it back severely, to about two inches above the thickest branches. All the gangly undergrowth would go as well. Whoever had the plant before you, did not give it enough light.

Christopher

I very much agree that it should get a repot first. It is important for the roots to be healthy first and foremost. Once you start seeing healthy new growth you can consider cutting it back. Personally, I would cut back as Christopher suggested but it is ultimately up to you how you want to style it.

-Erica

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm inclined to cut it way back (and to chop off the lowest growth that you can see in picture 1). I don't have a clear image in mind as to what look I am trying to achieve, but at a minimum, I want to get rid of the gangly growth and have everything at the top look a bit more compact and full.

The plant is 15 years old and had been repotted a couple years ago, so I was told. But as someone mentioned, it was not getting enough light where it had been located. Should I still repot and then, in a few weeks(?), cut it back, or do you think it is established enough to withstand both changes at the same time?

Any thoughts on the soil that I purchased (link in original post)? Should I instead go with a store-bought cactus/succulent soil?

moonlitexile

Here is very current thread showing what you can do with your plant...

don't be afraid of prunning

Howard (bikerdoc) whose plant it is, has few very large plants he prunes drastically.

In this post, he is showing huge jade (second photo) that is going to get haircut - hopefully he will post before&after photos:

another huge jade

Is there more than one plant in that pot? You may want to divide/plant them separately. However you decide to prune it, it needs more light.

Rina

Thanks, Rita. To answer your question, I believe that the lower growth is off of the main trunk, but I cannot say for sure (until I repot it). In any case, I'm going to cut that off.

The plant is currently getting direct sunlight most of the day, but you are correct that it could use even more. I plan to put it outside after pruning and repotting.

looks a bit wet, would suggest you re-pot it and root examine In a few days you can cut it back AKA prune hard as you want

Is there a reason for the guide wire for the main trunk ?

The urge to do everything at once is often difficult to overcome. Patience is the best thing you can give it. I would repot it and then wait as was described above. You can do it all at once, especially being it's pretty healthy, but you might see better results in the long run if you wait. Some people use cacti/succulent mix mixed with at least half perlite, others only use gritty mix. At this point it is mostly personal preference as to what you use. Personally, I use a gritty mix. I don't believe any one can tell you exactly how to care for your plant because your care is based off of your own lifestyle as well as the condition you are able to grow it in.

Always as much sunlight as possible. If it hasn't had it much before you will need to introduce it slowly to direct light. This may require you to physically move it around a bit until it gets completely situated. You can get rolling plant bases you set pots on to to make it easier if it's really heavy.

When you do a hard prune it will usually stimulate much more compact and full growth as you described. If there is an area that gets leaves where you don't want it you can pinch it back.

-Erica

Thanks all--this is really helpful.

Nomen--I had put the guide wire there the other day because the lower branch was hanging over the side of the pot. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to keep the branch, so while I was deciding, I repositioned it so that it would grow up versus out.

What are the ideal conditions and watering/fertilizing regimens for gritty mix vs. cacti/succulent + perlite? Any advantages to one over the other? I live in the northeast US, so I would only be able to put the plant outside for a few months a year. I'm contemplating getting a growing light for the other months to help supplement whatever sunlight it gets next to a window. Thoughts?

I use a gritty mix b/c I am available everyday to water during the summer, and I want my plants to grow faster. If I were out on the road a lot, I would want something that holds onto water longer, and would have to accept that they wouldn't grow as fast.

In the winter, I can't fit all my succulents in the windows I have, so I use T5 fluorescent grow lights (6500K). they don't grow as fast without the sun, but at least I can keep the internodes short enough.

The message is to design the variables around the environment you are providing it. There's just no one answer.

Ah, I hadn't understood that gritty mix demands daily watering in the summer months. I travel intermittently for work (I'm gone 2-3 days at a time, on average), so perhaps I'll go with the cactus/succulent mix + perlite.

What about fertilizing in that medium. Necessary? If so, how frequently, and would I still use the Foliage Pro (+ gypsum?) that is suggested for gritty mix?

I appreciate that there is not any one answer to these questions, but all of your responses have been incredibly helpful in providing general guidance. Thanks again!

Gritty does not require daily watering at all. I water mine once a week usually, depending on the plant and weather. Up when I have more time I'll send a better response of no one else beats me to it.

-Erica

Decisions, decisions!

Another question--if the lower limbs on my plant are in fact attached to the main trunk, can I cut them off during the repotting process? Would it put the tree at risk if I were to bury exposed cuts? It's looking like I'll only be able get access to the lower branches when I've cleared away all the soil. Alternatively, I could dig down around the trunk a bit to investigate. If they are attached and not too deep, I could cut them now and give the cuts time to dry out before repotting.

Gritty & daily watering...depends on the plant, the pot etc.

However, I find that gritty mix overall requires me to water more often in general.

I have had succulents that grew well in perlite and bagged succulent mix. To be fair, the learning curve is longer but if I had to choose, in my opinion, this medium is a close second to gritty.

moon
I am in Canada (still cold!), keep them inside longer than outside - they grow well. Inside, I use supplemental lights just as breathnez suggested.
No, you don't need to water every day in gritty. 2-3 away days is no problem.
Gritty is better because of excellent drainage (if you have 'heavy hand' with watering can - you have much less chance of killing the plants), and also better air circulation. Besides, it looks better! (at least I think so).
When outside, most of my succulents get water when it rains, if too dry for too long - I will water (rain water is good for them too).
The links I posted in previous post show you how drastically you can prune. Check the first one again, Howard updated it after giving jade huge trim.

If cutting below soil line, I would let them callus well, even dust with some cinnamon powder to help prevent fungi. (I think nomen doesn't care for cinnamon unless in kitchen, lol) Cinnamon is natural fungicide.
After callusing (few days, longer if thick trunk), pot them up. Don't put them in strongest sun right away.
I never fertilized my jades, but many do. I'll probably try this year myself. Let the plant heal and start some roots first (especially cuttings), there is no point of forcing it to grow by force-feeding if there isn't sufficient root system.
If you decide to fertilize, I would go 1/4 to 1/2 recommended strenght.

Here is photo of thicker branch I pruned off recently - branch was abt. 16" long - and I used cinnamon powder (on both branch and mother plant) - you can see it callused well:
(Excuse poor photos...)

Here is the original plant, you can see it was branching very low too:
(the above shown branch I pruned off is on left side)Rina

It is easy to over think this, but I do think if you whack this Jade and repot it at the same time, the results will only be positive. That is what I would do, and I stand by it. As I have said in the past, I have Jades in gritty mix as well as an organic mix, and all are doing equally well.

Christopher.

Great advice from Rina. I also agree with Christopher that what you choose for your potting mix isn't a big deal, as long as you adapt your care to those conditions. What I don't like about organic mixes is how they eventually compact around the roots. I also have plants in both types of mixes, but definitely prefer gritty mix. Next time I go to the beach I am going to give Christopher's beach mix a try :).

-Erica

Another question: the Jade is currently in a 12" pot. Should I plant it in something larger (15"?), or would it be best to stick with the same size?

Huge pots are not necessary - I would not use larger pot.

Here is a picture of the plant after I cut it back. Feedback?

I wonder whether I should cut it back way more, like Puglvr1's jade from the following thread (pictures below--first taken after cut, the second a couple years later, I believe): http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1790745/large-jade-whack-and-repot

For example, could/should I make the following three cuts (image below)? I want the plant to grow in as full as possible from here on out, and as it stands, the nodes are spaced pretty far apart on the upper branches, so I think future growth will be limited. The plant is also taller than I would like it to be. Thoughts? If you think it should be cut back further than it is now, but you do not think it should be cut back quite as far as the yellow lines would imply, would someone please do something similar with the original image so that I can get a sense as to how far I should cut it back to promote good growth moving forward (without killing the plant now)?

Or, alternatively--so as to leave a couple more leaf scars to promote more blooms--cut each of the main limbs at the two points where they split, as follows:

Anyone?

I like the first picture with yellow cut lines. My reasoning is that with the tertiary branches you may want to start seeing significant decrease in the thickness of branches to enhance the trunk's relative thickness. Keep in mind I come from a bonsai background. Your goals may be different.

Thanks, breathnez. I would like to go in the bonsai direction. May I ask, why the first yellow line photo versus the second? On balance, would it be better to get the two leaf scars where the limbs branch so that more leaves sprout out? Where exactly would you cut if it were your plant?

Also, the branches are about 4-5 inches around at that point. Is that a data point that would cause you pause?

Where I am with this is that I would prefer to shorten the plant, and start fresh growing new, healthy upper branches. But I would not want to kill the plant or do anything that would severely limit future growth. If you all say that, over time, the plant will grow back if I were to cut it back even further, I'm inclined to go that route.

Imagine what the tree might look like when *completed*. What is the overall height you see? Then look at attractive trees in nature, and how parts of the tree look relative to one another. One bonsai guideline is the trunk thickness approximately 1/6-1/12 the height of the tree. From the height you imagine for your plant, you can now get an idea if the trunk will be thick enough. If not, either grow the plant aggressively to thicken the trunk or adjust the total height you plan for your tree. Back to attractive trees in nature, how long is the trunk before the first branches come off? How long are the first branches before the next branching occurs? How much thinner are each level of branches than the trunk or branches before? There should be a definite decrease of length and girth at each level of branching(and a definite increase in the number of branches).

These are things I have in mind when looking at developing a bonsai in order to create the illusion of a giant, old tree in a tiny pot. Now, the trunk of yours is hard to see, but looking at the length vs. girth of the main branches, the branches seem long in relation to how thick they are. That is why I was more attracted to the picture that involved cutting them shorter.

If I could shift gears a little, (you may already know this, so my apologies if I am sharing something too basic) I inherited a large, old jade in a large pot- much like yours but several different plants. It had been in too little light and too much water of late. After cogitating, I decided to both prune heavily and do a repot to know the root conditions. It was in potting soil, and when I took it out of the pot, even though the pot was 12 inches deep the roots were only in the top few inches. Furthermore, the bottom 6 inches of the soil were literally soggy even though the top 2 inches were relatively dry- the roots didn't want to go there b/c of the waterlogging. I repotted the separate plants all in one wide, shallow pot to create a forest, and cut off all but the trunks and a few primary branches.

Saying that is to say this: in similar conditions to yours, I was drastic with mine and it survived and is looking good now. The hard part for me was to not water much until there was new foliage to use that water. Monitor the moisture in the soil very closely until it starts growing again, and consider a repot even if only to pull it out of the pot, remove any unnecessary soil(that will only serve to hold onto too much water) and place it back en masse.

Tomorrow I will start a new jade thread and show off my humble little forest. Today, I hope I've done more than just muddy the waters...

moonlitexile, looks like that's going to be a great plant.

Only quickly skimmed the thread above and may have missed any response to your question on the repotme mix. But if it helps . . .

No personal experience with repotme or any other, but recall a post saying that many Gritty Mix versions sold online have all the desired components, but may not be screened for particle size. Perhaps you might want to sift over 1/16" mesh like aluminum insect screen, or a kitchen strainer from a "dollar" store, at least to get an idea.

Disclaimer - would consider self a horticultural newbie.

Excellent advice, everyone. Can't thank you enough for taking the time.

Breathnez--the trunk is about 2.75 to 3 inches in diameter. Therefore, according the the 1/12 to 1/6 rule, the tree height should be roughly 16 to 33 inches. The current height of the limbs at the point where they branch off (the second picture with the yellow cut lines) is about 13-14 inches.

With all of that as background, what about the following cuts?

I understand that, at this point, I'm not going to get a perfect bonsai look. In any event, I do appreciate the proportionality of bonsai, and so the notion of cutting it back severely makes perfect sense. I promise I'm capable of making decisions on my own, but in the spirit of putting the best foot forward at this "early" stage, really do appreciate all of your good insight :)

I've repotted in gritty mix since this photo, and cut the lowest growth to the soil level (I was reluctant to go any lower at this time for fear of mold, etc.). I plan to resume watering tonight/tomorrow (it's been 48 hours since repotting), and to begin introducing the plant to full sunlight outdoors. When should I resume fertilizing?

moonlitexile
Is it 2.75-3" in diameter or circumference?
Rina

Diameter

It's going to be a nice one. From bonsai guideline to WWII foot soldier common sense, my dad always said you can cut more off later, but you can't glue any back on. I think that applies pretty well here. In a few years you may be glad you left some extra, or you may decide it's time for a redesign. :-] I water mine in once after repotting, then monitor the soil very closely to see that it has dried out before watering again until there is significant new growth.