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kate_serrurier

help! dying citrus?!-- lost leaves + browning branches

10 years ago

Hi, I have had a scary last week with my dwarf mandarin orange tree - I slowly brought it inside and have 3 grow lights on it now. It had scale and I scrubbed it down with isopropyl alcohol, and then sprayed it with neem...it then lost all of it's leaves, all of it's fruit, and now is turning brown! Any all suggestions are wanted, thanks so much. :(

Comments (21)

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    First check the roots and explain to us what kind of mix it's in....Do you ever let it dry to a slight wilt before you water it?

    How strong was the alcohol solution and how much neem? Where do you live and when did you decide to bring it in? After a light frost? How cold was it on a regular basis? When do you water? How do you know when to? What kind of lights? How strong? How close? How bad was the scale problem?

    Kate Cobert thanked myermike_1micha
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Thank you for your response! - Yes, if anything I was caught under watering. However, since I received it and June (it lived outside all summer) I have wondered if the soil had adequate draining, so I checked and the roots seemed really great. However, there were soil mites, so I got new soil (this time Fox Farm Ocean Forest Smart Natural Potting soil because I was told it was ideal) and then added perlite (2:1) to create aeration. I also added some citrus fertilizer, about 2 cups.

    I live in Durham, North Carolina - I started bringing it in when it inside after the first 50 degree night we had, because I figured it would be getting cooler. I water it about once a weak-ish - I check with 2 different moisture meters - in a few different areas about 2-4 inches down.

    Eek - I used straight isopropyl alcohol (with a toothbrush as a scrubber) and then I used Natural Guard Neem "ready to use". I only sprayed it once, and a few days later the leaves (which were all a lovely dark, happy-seeming green! - even when they fell off). -- This all happened about 3 weeks ago. I noticed the scale when I moved it inside.

    I didn't THINK I over-coated the leaves, but once the leaves started falling, I started lightly misting the leaves with a little plastic spray water bottle. - don't think that did anything.

    The brown areas used to just look like remnants of where the scale used to be, as you can see on the bottom branch sticking out to the right. but now all the branches look like they're dying...Thanks for all of your advice, I really feel like a horrible plant parent! :(

  • 10 years ago

    Wait!!! 2 CUPS of fertilizer in that pot???

    I hate to say this but I get the feeling it has burned the roots, especially the finer ones that do the work and they can not keep hydrating your tree...

    Have you checked the roots recently? Like yesterday? Are they nice and white, or do you have a very small root ball left? Let's check that first)

    Don't feel horrible..It happens to all of us)..Listen, I am thinking that with the strength of your sun and that alcohol, you burned the branches..Were they outside when you applied alcohol? In the sun at all..

    Once you have let citrus trees dry out to the point of wilt, they are almost goners, first the leaves, even fall off when green, then the branches...It's important to make sure the roots are healthy before moving forward..Can you do that? When did you change the soil, see the mites and look at the roots?

    MIke)

  • 10 years ago

    I'm with Mike on this one; I too was a bit shocked that you put two cups of fertilizer in that pot; unless it is very weak fertilizer, it is likely that the roots got burned. Perhaps you could give it a good flushing and still save your tree. You have to prune the dead branches back to the first viable/green bud; if you leave some of the brown, it will continue to die back.

    Kate Cobert thanked johnmerr
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    John, Thank you! I'll get some more soil right now. thank you very much.


    Thanks Mike - Eek - I'm guessing 2 cups is a lot too much? -- I checked the roots when I re-potted it last weekend, and they looked nice and white/healthy. I've taken a picture (see attached) of the roots right now...

    The soil mites had been there for awhile (like +2 months I think), but I read online (also where I read about using alcohol -- gahhh!) that they were harmless, so I wasn't too worried about getting rid of them, except that when the tree went downhill I figured I could get rid of the soil mites (which were driving me crazy inside) and check the roots/soil...

    I used the alcohol at night time and had already moved the tree inside (and this was before I got the grow lights) so not a ton of sun. (When the leaves fell off is when I went and got the grow light bulbs, I thought maybe there just wasn't enough sun.) Now I have 3 grow lights from Home Depot, and they're about 2-4 feet away from the plant.

    Again, thanks so much for all your help AND for not berating -- While I may be doing everything wrong, I really do what to do it correctly. Thank you!

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Would you like to know what I would do if it were my tree?))

    Also tell me, how are the temps these days and how will they be coming up? Can you look at weather.com and look into the next ten days? Specifically the night time temps..

    Do you have a protected sunny area at your place? Like a south facing wall? A nice warmer than the rest of your yard area? How about soil mix? What kind do you have? What do you have access to? Perlite? Do you use rain water or tap?

    Kate Cobert thanked myermike_1micha
  • 10 years ago

    In the picture I see an horizontal brown abscission line at the lowest level of the grafting line.That is the delimitation between what will remain alive (green) and what is already decided to die (the top part, already started to brown).

    In my opinion there is nothing you can do to save the scion.

    Maybe you can save the rootstock, in order to use-it for grafting a new scion, sometimes after a healthy flush from rootstock. But doesn't worth the time and effort.

    Kate Cobert thanked eSilviu
  • 10 years ago

    Mike & eSilviu, Thank you so much of your responses. - I would really like to try to save this wee tree, just because I really do want to learn how to grow citrus. -sounds like I don't have much more to lose...


    Additionally, when I was re-potting this afternoon, I noticed what looked like white gunk (moss/mold?) on the roots. I've included pictures below. More visible in the pics with the blue table...


    Mike, I'd guess that you would start over as well?! Since I really love citrus trees and would love to be able to keep one alive and happy, I'd absolutely appreciate your suggestions.

    To fill you in on your questions:

    - Temp: inside ~70. Outside, weather.com says for the next 10 days: mostly 30s-40s at night (37,33,35,42,54,57,45) & mid 60s during the day (63, 57,59,62,67,71,68,69,63) and sunny turning to showers by day 8. This summer, it was 75-100 and did really well (obviously the 100+ days were rough). I have a NW facing patio, which is tough, but it seemed to be growing 3 fruit pretty happily (and battling scale to boot...etc.!)


    Do you have a protected sunny area at your place? I had it SE (more east than south) facing.

    How about soil mix? The soil I used before, when the tree seemed happy, was Fafard organic professional potting mix + perlite + Fafard professional potting soil + compost mix.


    Do you use rain water or tap? I'd say 1/3rd of the time it rained about when I would water it, and then if it rain (and wasn't going to rain the next day) I watered it from tap water.


    Now that it's inside, it's next to a window-door, but outside is a covered part of the patio, which is why I felt the grow lights would be necessary. They let off some heat themselves, and I keep them ~2-4 feet from the plant. I have 3 right now, but I haven't read how many/few is ideal; my floor lamp holds 3 bulbs, and if it was happy this summer, it needs all the light it can get this winter...


    Thanks so much for your advice. I may just go back to a ficus tree and not try to torture another poor citrus!

    Thanks, Kate


    From the earlier posts, I have repotted the poor plant in a soil mix akin to what I used this summer. I also took pictures of the root system...


  • 10 years ago

    Very sad looking roots.

    Give the poor thing a funeral and then try again in the spring when fresh plants are available. We gardeners learn by recalling our mistakes and, then, NOT repeating them.


  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Kate.....Now that I have a few minutes...How long did you leave those roots exposed to the air? In my opinion, it looks like most of the feeder roots have died off..You seem to have a few left which explains the left over green branches and the others dying off(

    Tell me, did you leave the roots in a bucket of water the whole time until you could immediately stick them in your mix?

    I'd like to know if it is a cutting or a grafted tree..It looks like a cutting but could you take a close up of the trunk, top to bottom? You do have viable roots thank god...But as mentioned by a good member here, the scion might live,not the grafted portion..Can you take a pic of the whole tree to, in the pot now planted and the entire branch system? That will help a lot)

    Do you have a handy man around the house? Are you a handy man? Think you would know how to make a boxed frame wrapped in painters plastic? You will know why I am asking all these questions so I can better help you)

    Do you have access to fir bark or pine bark mulch? Do you own a space heater?

    You are not going to believe the extremes I would go through to save a tree..lol

  • 10 years ago

    Rinse the roots, pot again and don't fertilizer and pray. It might not completely die but like mentioned, it's not looking good.

    Kate Cobert thanked pip313
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    John, Jean, Mike, Monica, Pip313: Thank you so much for your comments, sincere suggestions, and for not being judgemental (even in the face of 2C fertilizer & 1:0 isopropyl alcohol). This may have been a disaster, but your support really does make me want to not give up on being a gardener/parent of a happy citrus tree. J

    I’ve learned many lessons, many I’m sure seem like “gardening for kindergarteners”, but I’m hopeful that I can do better next time with all that I’ve learned + can learn before spring comes. J Can you recommend any great citrus guides/books for me to read this winter?

    Mike, I had already cut below the graft line when I received your last message. I was feeling so horrible that I really wanted to do whatever I could as quickly as possible (obviously not very rational…) ~ Overall, I think it might be better for my sanity to let Mandy (since she was a mandarin tree) RIP, and try again in the spring, with ideal weather, ideal soil, drainage, no scale, happy sunlight, etc...and having read up on growing citrus. Although I highly respect the lengths you’ll go to save a tree!!

    Would you recommend using fir bark or pine bark mulch instead of a mix potting soil, perlite + bark chips? Also, what space heaters do you recommend? (how much heat, how close to the plant, etc.?) – I’m considering if, because of my less than ideal living situation (SE & more east than south) that a 365 indoor life with controlled conditions might be more successful...

    Again, thank you all so much. I really appreciate your help. In honor of Mandy, I’m posting a picture from Oct 21st, when she at least seemed happy and was scale-free (although perhaps you experts can see some tall-tell signs...I'm sure she was over-fertilized since May - Welp!)

    Best, Kate.

  • 10 years ago

    No space heaters, they would exaggerate the dry air. Grow lights. A t5ho 2 foot 8 bulb would be a very good choice for 1 tree. It's 2 foot by 2 foot and 50 watts per square foot. Not the cheapest option but great for the life of the tree.

    Kate Cobert thanked pip313
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Kate, hello..Sorry about the delay....

    My first choice would be pine bark but fir bark is also good...I would use pine bark, perlite and peat or potting mix....)

    Kate, the reason why I asked you if you have a space heater is because you could build some kind of enclosure and use the space heater in their to keep the temps warm on cold days and nights outside..You live much further south than me and boy would I find a way to made a plastic enclosure or enclose a porch some how with lots of light...Your tree is still getting the benefits of lots of sunlight and just keeping it warm plus that would have a tremendous effect on it more than keeping it inside..

    All my trees are still outside even though nights are cold, but they are all healthy. Yours would get so healthy so fast if you found a sheltered spot in your yard that gets nice and warm by day with sunlight while you keep the roots warm at night with a space heater...

    You understand what I am saying? You have to me creative with these trees..Don't just settle for indoor conditions when your growing season is so much longer than mines..For instance, your tree would do much greater on the other side of that window in a plastic enclosure made on a wooden frame..

    The space heater I use I get at Lowe's.I think it's only about 25 bucks and it can be set at 60 degrees....You would love it. So much easier] than keeping them inside..You won't need a light set up and by the time it comes inside, it will have improved quite rapidly..

    Kate Cobert thanked myermike_1micha
  • 10 years ago

    Kate, what Happened!!?

  • 5 years ago

    INFORMATION NEEDED!!

    I have a lemon tree, it has been doing well for some time now. But one day when I was playing outside... I put it on top of the air conditioner outside. Then the leafs stated to fall off and the branches are turning brown. I don't know what to do! Just yesterday i went outside to check on it and it was growing pinkish-white little balls by the leafs. I don't know what they are, could you guy's and gal's please tell me what that means and what should I do?

  • 5 years ago

    The tree is flowering, making one last gasp to procreate.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Silica is right, and without looking at the tree and knowing how you cared for it all this time, it's difficult to give you one direct answer..Sorry

    Most important, what Zone are you in and what area do you grow it? New England, California?

  • 5 years ago

    Please wise ones—can you help? My dwarf lemon has had a rough ride & I thought we’d taken a turn for the better but I looked at her today and her ends are brown. :(
    Hit her from nursery in NorCal, about 2y old, no buds, but found spider mites immediately after bringing her home. Beat them back with showers and been oil, did ok & got that. Then she started budding EVERYWHERE in late May—tok until her leaves started turning yellow in veins and everything fell off. I read it was possibly nitrogen deficiency so I fertilized about 2-3 weeks ago. With about a cup of this fertilizer pellet mixed into her soil. Shortly after, she started growing new leaves (and some buds) again & I thought we were ok. Apparently not.

    Water has always been the hard part. Back in her March shower to remove mites, I realized the pot drainage wasn’t good enough, amd I was scared we’d kill her. I drilled new holes, put her on corks for air, dug some “air passages l” in the dirt and after about a month she was ready for water. But she doesn’t use a ton and I don’t water nearly as much as her sibling Lime-nought same place/time—who is CRAZY thriving. One pic is her potting soil.
    I haven’t dug up root ball yet—that’s on my list for after work. Am I too late?? I’m so sad.

  • 5 years ago

    Ps—this is her happy sister -Same potting mix. Drinks a ton—6qu/week! I used the same fertilizer on her a few weeks ago as I saw the beginning of some leaf yellowing but she’s doing great-I have like 10 limes in flight.

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