Software
Houzz Logo Print
joycec_lee

Need help analyzing a bid for new home construction

10 years ago

hi, in the process of evaluating a bid (and getting several others but having a hard time finding contractors that do new-build) for a new construction in Sacramento, CA.

My question is there are all these "cost allotments" all throughout this bid/proposal for a ~2500 sq ft one-story house (add'l 500 sq ft garage) and I read that these allowances are a bad idea and that it is much better to nail down (at least roughly) what specific product we want for each door/window/fixture/etc. we need for this house. I've included what's presented to us so far (we actually are asking for further revision to include more items as this builder who is open to us doing some of the finishing touches ourselves interpreted as that we want to supply and install a lot of the items which we don't/aren't able to do so). How do we analyze this bid and evaluate whether it is reasonable. Again, we are trying to get other bids but have not yet been able to do so (several interested builders have not gotten back to us, quite a few seem to prefer remodels but not new builds). Thank you in advance.

($53,582) Pour Foundation per plan for House, Garage and Sunroom.

($74,000) Frame the House, Garage.

($13,425) All windows are to be white vinyl Milguard Tuscany style.
Install:
(1) 8068 SGD. Cost allotment $1,300.
(4) 3050 SH. Cost allotment $400/ea.
(4) 5050 S. Cost allotment $500/ea.
(2) 2030 SH. Cost allotment $300/ea.
(1) 5016 S. Cost allotment $400.
(1) 4040 S. Cost allotment $400.
3070 wood exterior door. Cost allotment $900.
Lockset. Cost allotment $150.
½ lite 2868 fiberglass door. Cost allotment $450.
lockset. $75.
2868 fiberglass French door. Cost allotment $800.
lockset $150.
Installing no interior doors except (3) 2068 reinforced, heavy duty Pocket doors prior to sheetrock. Cost allotment $300/ea.

Comments (22)

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Your questions are best answered by the bidder.

  • 10 years ago
    Figure out exactly what you want: i.e. hardwood or laminate or carpet. Then get proposals from several contractors so you can compare.
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Your architect creates a plan and set of specifications for you to have bid out. And then helps you evaluate the bids. Without that specific plan, and specific product list, anyone could be bidding anything they want. You have nothing to measure the bids against. "Allowances'' are just lowball guesses, so as to keep the apparent cost of the home lower initially. The more allowances you have, the ruder the shock when you find out your budget won't build the level of home that you want.

    There are going to be darn few builders that even get back to you at all with your parameters. You have a lot of red flags telling them to stay away. The ones you get won't be the best or brightest either. You need to stop and evaluate why you want to build vs buy existing. You will spend more and get less building.

  • 10 years ago

    Thank you all for your advice. @Sophie Wheeler, the reason we're building is b/c of a lot in a nicer part of town that we've inherited and we want to build on it rather than to sell it.

  • 10 years ago

    @Renee Texas, could I pm you. This is our first (and probably only) new build and so we're definitely learning that the learning curve is steep.

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    We actually like allowances for most of our Clients. The contractors that we use are honest and ethical and put in allowances that are realistic.....and as the Architects, it is our job to look at those numbers to make sure that they are realistic...

    Many of our Clients like the opportunity to shop for a better deal than the allowances and therefore they save money.

    The nice thing about the allowances is that they are a "place holder" for the item and the Client can figure that they will be spending at least that much....but hopefully less.

    However, I would like to point out that the allowances that we include in a project are for items that the Client can shop for such as light fixtures, appliances, plumbing fixtures and flooring....The rest of the items should be included in the contract by the contractor and should be a fixed hard number (ie: roofing, windows, etc.)

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    One more thing.......I only know that you are building a one story house and I know nothing about the foundation, but the cost that is shown for pouring the foundation is huge........Unless you have a very complex foundation and perhaps a full basement?

    You might want to hire someone to help you analyze the bids. Perhaps a local architect or construction project manager.

  • 10 years ago

    @Lampert Dias Architects, Inc. - thank you, that is what this gen. contractor is willing to do, "shop for a better deal than the allowances." I compared the prices he quoted for the allowances with actual prices (for example, windows, he was pretty specific with the brand and the series) and they're not outrageously off, so I feel that this is a honest and ethical contractor and he's reputable in our area. What I want to nail down are as you said, "the rest of the items" that should have a fixed hard number.

    My husband asked for a bid only on a lockable shell b/c we plan to have some of the interior done by ourselves and perhaps sub out some of it. It is possible that we may have the builder we choose to install more of the interior, but we wanted to work with a builder who will let us supply a lot of the details of the house and install some of it ourselves or sub out instead of a turn-key bid b/c that's simply out of our budget (we got other very loose quotes at upwards of $300/sq ft for turn-key which we simply can't afford and therefore would need to find someone who is willing to work with our budget if that means we do much of the finishes ourselves). Here's the rest of the rough estimate that I couldn't include in the first post.

    ($29,855) Electrical Install:
    (4) exhaust fans. Cost allotment $200/ea.
    (44) LED can lights. Cost allotment $80/ea.
    j boxes for (3) pendants. HO installs and supplies.
    Ceiling outlets for garage lighting. HO supplies and installs.
    fan boxes for (8) ceiling fans. HO supplies and installs.
    wiring for (6) smoke/CO2 detectors. HO supplies and installs.
    wiring per plan for Data and Phone.
    (95) j boxes for outdoor lighting. HO supplies and installs.
    (2) exterior GFI outlets.
    (28) GFI outlets.
    (51) outlets.
    (5) dimmer switches.
    (42) decora switches.
    200 amp Service Panel.

    Plumbing; ($16,170)
    Install Sewer, mixer valve and supply to Roll in Shower. HO supplies and installs Shower. Cost allotment $150 on mixer valve trim kit.
    Install supply, mixer valve and sewer to 3 x 3 Shower. HO Supplies and installs Shower. Cost allotment $150 on mixer valve trim kit.
    Install Sewer, mixer valve and supply for drop in tub. HO supplies and installs tub. Cost allotment $150 for mixer valve trim kit.
    Install Sewer and supply for (3) toilets. HO supplies and installs.
    Install Sewer and supply for (4) sinks. HO supplies and installs.
    Install sewer and supply to 2 well island sink. HO supplies and installs.
    Install supply and sewer for Kitchen sink. HO supplies and installs.
    Install supply and sewer for Dishwasher. HO supplies and installs.
    Install supply for Refrigerator. HO supplies and installs.
    Install condensate line for furnace.
    Install Sewer and copper supply.
    Install sewer and supply to washing machine. HO supplies and installs.
    Install (2) outdorr spigots.
    Install supply for exterior On-Demand. HO supplies and installs.

    Insulation; ($5,790)
    Install R-15 Batt insulation in exterior walls of House and Garage. 2,124 sq. ft.
    Install R-38 Batt insulation in ceiling of House and Garage. 3,666 sq. ft.

    Sheetrock: ($14,500)
    Install ½” sheetrock on walls of House and Garage. Imperfect smooth.
    Install 5/8” sheetrock on ceilings of House and Garage. Imperfect smooth. 11,930 sq. ft.
    Windows are 3 side sheetrock.

    Roofing: ($12,894)
    50 year landmark composition roofing. 33 squares. Cost allotment $9,900.
    Install 273 lin. ft. of 5” OG gutter and (9) downspouts. Cost allotment $2,994.

    Heating and cooling: ($12,250)
    Install a 15/12/95 split 5 ton American Standard unit. Up to (16) supply and return using R-6 ducting.
    Hers test and verification

    Siding: ($18,300)
    Install 6” lap Hardi plank siding.
    Install 171 sq. ft. of stone veneer. Cost allotment $19/sq. ft.

    Trim;
    None

    Paint;
    None

    Cabinets:
    None

    Countertops:
    None

    Surround:
    None

    Flooring;
    None

    Fire Protection: We have to have fire sprinklers installed and he doesn't do them.
    None

  • 10 years ago

    What bank are you working with that will allow you to be the GC on the house and use the GC as a project manager? And what GC would allow that to happen?

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    The prices that you have listed all seem about right, except the composition roof seems a bit high......You might ask the contractor to get a few more bids from other roofing contractors. I could be wrong, but it is worth asking.

    He should also be able to get you a fire sprinkler bid from a local fire sprinkler installer. This might be around $7,000 plus or minus.

    One more comment. Your contractor shows Milgard Windows. This is an excellent product and a very affordable window with a lifetime guarantee. We use Milgard on many of our projects. I highly recommend using them. It is probably the best window for tight budgets that you will find.

    Just curious, where are you located?

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    You need an architect and ASAP if you have never done this before do not attemp a full new build for your first time

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    @Lampert Dias Architects, Inc. per original post, we're in the Sacramento area. We have a fire sprinkler installer lined up and he quoted about $8K+/-, he also did our fire sprinkler plans as our designer doesn't do them. We're not trying to be our own GC so I'm not sure where people are getting that idea from, when I say subbing out, well for example we decided that we're going to put in an IKEA kitchen and this GC won't install it so we'll have to do sub that part out. My husband has painted the inside of our whole house before so we plan to do that ourselves. At this stage we haven't ruled out having our GC take on most of the project to the point of almost turn-key but we are looking for someone who would be flexible to work with us in sourcing our own finishes for cost-savings.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Building a custom home is not for the faint of heart. No price can be firm until the item is paid for and installed. Prior to that it is guesswork as to the cost.

    And purchasing an Ikea kitchen and hiring a sub to install is the very definition of GC.

  • 10 years ago

    It seems there's no other way around the IKEA kitchen issue so in that case I guess we will have to be our GC for some parts of our house. I'm working on a spec list to nail down specific items to minimize surprises and change orders.

  • 10 years ago

    You will also need to pay attention to how jobs are bid. Lump sum? Time and material? Guarantee max price ( GMP) ? Cost Plus? Understanding how the trades were bid can help minimize budget overages.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Any time you hire individual trades for part of the build, you are acting as the GC of the job. All of the responsibility of the whole project rests entirely on your shoulders.

    In your kitchen, that means locating the plumbing drains correctly to work with the planned kitchen before you ever pour the slab. You need to have that plumbing plan already worked out in the design phase. It means that you have to understand and take into consideration which way the ceiling joists run and where they are placed for your recessed lighting, and for ventilation ductwork. It means that you need to understand the electrical requirements and routes for all of your appliances now during the design phase, and design the routes for the island wiring, or ventilation.

    All of those interlocking puzzle pieces are your responsibility. If you get them wrong, it is your $$ that pays to correct things and pay the extra labor and materials that is equivalent to renovation rates. When you have to redesign on the fly because of errors, it costs 3x as much as getting it right in the first place.

    Errors is where many a self GC'd builds go off the tracks and the bank ends up owning the property. Which is why the bank is so restrictive about working with those who want to self GC. No bank can sell a "shell" or a home without a kitchen. Don't be surprised when they dont see eye to eye with your vision of DIYing portions of the build.

  • 10 years ago

    Thanks for your pointers. The GC will be doing all the rough plumbing throughout the house minus the cabinets, sinks, counters, faucets, appliances in the kitchen. Our plans show exactly where the plumbing comes in
    and the drains go out. Our kitchen is already laid out in our plans.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Are you aware of the Houzz Building a Home Forum? Here is the link.

    http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/build

  • 10 years ago

    Yes, I also posted there but I had initially posted here b/c I searched "construction bid" or something similar and found another thread on this design forum. Thank you Beverly.

  • 10 years ago

    Also, the bank will not let you live in the house while you are doing your DIY work, as you won't be able to get a certificate of occupancy (CO) until certain systems are in place, such as: bathrooms, kitchen, and any other things like sheetrock, etc. These vary from state-to-state, so I would check with your local building inspector.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    For more information about our full lifetime warranty visit : www.milgard,com/warranty