I just checked Seventh Generation's Ultra Power Plus ingredients and they eliminated the cellulase enzyme. It's been replaced with pectinase.

Its my understanding the Sodium Bisulfite is in detergent to help with PH.

Greeny I'm glad your liking the Tide F&G Pods.

Enduring, I'm glad you like the pearls and that they haven't caused any issues for you.

Mama, the sodium bisulfite is likely used for multiple purposes in the pods. Unfortunately upon further research I discovered xyloglucanase, one of the enzymes in the pods, functions similarly to cellulase. That explains why my laundry was so soft. So the search continues for the perfect F&C detergent.

Gain flings do not have xyloglucanase. They only have two enzymes-amylase and subtilisin.

As far as I understand Cellulase is fine on cottons, problem is there's different blends now days. Cellulase does not always play nice with Rayon/Bamboo..

Thank you for the information about cellulase enzymes. Many of my tees and pj pants contain rayon and everything has been getting small holes or the fabric seems unusually thin. How do I know which detergents are safe? I find it frustrating that I can't seem to figure out what detergent is ok for what. For example I just bought Persil Pro Clean liquid, what is it ok for or is the question what shouldn't I use it on?

hmorton, I feel your pain. The only way to know for sure is to check ingredients before you buy. That should be relatively easy as most manufacturers have their product ingredients available online. Unfortunately, Persil Pro Clean has cellulase. Actually, I believe all the Persil formulas contain it. If you're really concerned I'd return the detergent. Strange, I know but I've done it before. Or you could use it for synthetics, such as workout clothes.

It looks like many Tide formulas (including Original he Turbo, Ultra Stain Release, and Tide Pods) contain cellulase as well. Several I know off hand that do not: Tide F&G liquid, Tide Purclean, Gain liquid, powder, and flings, Green Works, Wisk, Era, All Oxi liquid, All pods, & Purex Plus Clorox 2.

What Littlegreeny said above makes since to me. How would a cellulase enzyme know the difference between a pill or a fabric? I would prefer not having it and have not noticed any improvement from it.

beaglenc, I totally agree with you. The enzyme wouldn't know the difference and will break down any weak spots in the fabric, hence random holes.

I'm totally serious when I said that I have had absolutely no more issues with random holes of unknown origin after I stopped using detergent with cellulase, and my laundry is just as clean without the enzyme.

Greeny, was there any rayon/bamboo in the things that developed holes?

Mama, no everything that developed holes was 100% cotton.

littlegreeny, you are a gem! Thank you for being so generous in sharing your research and thoughts. This information means a lot to me. I won't covet Darwin any more!

Awe, thanks Pat! I'm glad I was able to help.

littlegreeny, until you find the perfect F&C detergent, will you use Tide F&G liquid?

Pat, I really like Tide F&G liquid but just finished my big 110-load jug and am trying Era Free right now. Era is not as powerful as Tide but seems to work fairly well for half the price. Ingredients are very similar between the two formulas (Era is also a P&G product). I also have some new All Oxi F&C pods I got a great deal on this weekend, but have not tried those yet.

Tide F&G liquid is a great all purpose detergent that packs a powerful punch. You really can't go wrong with it.

I agree Tide F&G liquid is a good all purpose detergent. BUT Tide F&G pods are excellent. LOL.

Greeny you should like the ALL Free with Oxi...its a decent detergent.

Hi Pat!

Hi, you little MamaPinky, you. I just have one more question for greeny and then I will leave him alone until he says whether he likes the All F&C Oxi pods or not. greeny, do the All F&C Oxi pods have either cellulase or xyloglucanase? I ask because the Sun/Henkle website makes it impossible for me to pull up the ingredient sheet.

Pat, the only enzymes the All Oxi pacs contain are protease and mannanase. The regular mighty pacs have only one enzyme-protease. I'll let you know what I think when I try them.

littlegreeny, don't forget to report back if you like the All F&C Oxi pacs better than the Tide F&G liquid. Inquiring minds need to know.

Pat, thanks for the reminder. The All F&C Oxi pacs work very well. They clean just as good, if not a tiny bit better than the Tide F&G liquid. In my he TL they don't sud too much and seem to rinse well. I only use one pac per load.

thank you, greeny, very much. I have an old (but wonderful) Whirlpool water-hog TL so pods do not appeal to me, but maybe I could get away with one pac per load also -- we'll see. I'm out of the Tide F&G so I'll get some of the All tomorrow. May go back to Tide F&G again some day, even though I'm an anti-Tide person.

I'm repeating myself, but your research concerning cellulase and xylogl. is really a game-changer for me. I am forever grateful to you and wish you the very best.

Oh, thanks so much for the kind words Pat!! Hope you enjoy the All pacs as much as I do!

Awesome post!!! I knew very little of these things, but I'm DEFINITELY motivated to delve into this research! I always wondered why sometimes my clothes last forever, and other times they wear quickly... I never thought about the fact that I changed detergent based on sale prices!!!! I need to read the research and pick a brand Lol. Thank you so much!!

Nothing wrong with using different detergents. You'll find many of us that test drive different detergents on a regular basis. But if your going to choose one and stick to it I suggest you choose several

One for whites

One for colors

One for darks

One for wool, silk, down, cashmere

As far as clothes wearing fast, be sure to use the correct detergent and the correct dosage, under dosing is as bad as over dosing. Choose the correct water temperature, and cycle. and be careful what you put in the dryer. For instance synthetic fabrics such as 100% poly and rayon are better suited to air drying (outside) of the dryer. Also sorting helps prolong the lifespan of clothes. If you have heavier fabrics such as jeans or towels rubbing against tee shirts the shirts are going to break down faster. AND Wait for it.....avoid cold water washing...cold water doesn't remove soils in the fibers, because cold water causes the fibers to constricts (closes) and soils can't be released, very warm and hot causes the fibers to open up so the solution can get in and remove soils..soils remaining in clothes break down the fabric, damaging it. Another thing if you use chlorine bleach be sure to use it in the correct amounts and never add it to the wash cycle until the last 5to6 minutes..the bleach does it job in this window of time any longer than its eating the fabric causing severe damage....ok lecture over...Haha

Thank you mama pinky! Other than the cold/warm water info, I usually do follow everything else you said, but on a physics level, it makes perfect sense. I use woolite and woolite dark for delicates and darks consistently, but I didn't know to have separate detergents for whites and colors. And when I switched, it wasn't because of testing lol. It was because of frugality!! Haha. Thanks!!

littlegreeny, I just noticed on P&G ingredients page that Ultra Tide FG powder has the lipase enzyme that is supposed to attack oils. It is not in the liquid. That might be why Mama refers to it more than the liquid. It also fits the criteria for no cellulase and xlog...... enzymes. What do you think? My dogos left a lot of oils on their bedding, what about Darwin?

Pat, they must have recently changed the formula because I thought it had cellulase.

I've never tried it so can't attest to its performance. You should try it and let us know what you think.

greeny, same with Gain original powder.

Pat, that's new too. Gain powder used to only have protease. Gain smells nice but it's way too strong and would not work in my household.

I thought the same thing about Gain, but after drying, the scent is about gone. Never thought I would ever consider Gain, but for hub's laundry it may be perfect.

Also, just goes to show how "they" can change ingredients without any notice. I mean, how would any buyer know what formula they actually have at any given time? And "they" don't date their ingredient sheets either. It would always be a crap shoot and that's not fair.

I like Gain. I'm surprised a lot of others that talk about liking clean, crisp, and brisk detergents don't like a few of the Gains, like Gain original and Gain with Oxi...Clean, crisp and brisk to the max....after rinsing and drying the scent is much lighter. Add Downy Free and the clean crisp and brisk is about perfection.

I also enjoy Gain lavender powder. Its not overly sweet more clean and brisk... hang sheets outdoors than iron after washing in Gain Lavender and its heavenly.

Gain has a reputation of being cloying and heavily scented..might be in the box but not after a good rinse. I still think Gain with Oxi smells like the old original Oxydol.

Me Mum used Oxydol. This is going to be fun. Thank you, MP.

I'm very confused. I have been checking ingredients in the detergents I have and found this ingredient Carboxymethyl Cellulose (CMC) in Ariel. Is this the enzyme I should be avoiding?

hmorton, that's not an enzyme. I believe carboxymethyl cellulose is a fragrance carrier, and will cause no harm to your laundry.

Longtime Gain lover here, though I use it less now, having learned so much on this forum. In my Speed Queen FL, no scent remains. At. All. Which I know means I'm getting really great rinsing -- but I do miss the scent a little bit. I bought some of the Gain scent beads, but they don't linger much either and are spendy!

Question -- duh -- when you say Tide FG pods, what does the FG stand for?

MizLizzie, anytime we say FG it's free and gentle or P&G speak for free and clear.

I'm glad you like your SQ FL. It's one I'm seriously considering as I like the build quality and it's made in my home state.

Pat, P&G also reformulated Cheer powder...They added amylase and lipase (it still has protease).

AND they also reformulated Cheer Free liquid. They removed the amylase and cellulase. It now only has protease. I'm starting to get the feeling either P&G has come to the same conclusion we have about cellulase or their product developers are creeping on our forum.

So the scented Cheer liquid stayed the same?

greeny, I was thinking the same thing about P&G reading our forum for info about what real people like and think. I doubt they ever thought some of the members here were so smart about ingredients. Times have changed.

I used to use Cheer Free liquid a lot some time ago and I must have liked it because I had no sensitivities to it. Soon now I will give it another try. However, I will buy Gain powder tomorrow just because I have to get it out of my system. I have the Flings or whatever they're called. I will consider donating my new jug of Tide Free Gentle liquid since I am hell bent on eliminating Tide from my life. Just finished 3 hours of Planet Earth II and am on a chemical elimination kick again. We'll see how long this lasts until I decide my clothes aren't getting clean enough. Jeesh. Round and round we go.

Just want to add something for MizLizzie: It's "Tide Free & Gentle" and "All Free & Clear."

Also, just remembered, I have a HUGE unopened box of the wonderful old Cheer powder without OBs. I'll have to be sure the new Cheer powder doesn't have OBs before I give the old up to my Humane Society.

Thank you for the good news, greeny!

I'm not reading any difference in enzymes used in Cheer. Why?

I don't use any of the detergents discussed except Persil perls. No holes in anything and I wash plenty of t-shirts.

The quality of cotton isn't what it once was and who knows where anything is manufactured today and what's being blended into the thread to make it cheaper or to increase production volume. No way to find out about that, either. If a detergent is "eating" the fabric, to me it's the wrong detergent. I personally don't get good results with Tide, which I used for years, and have no plans to ever use it again.

I found the greener detergents seem to be easier on clothes but my well water's not chlorinated or chemically treated, just filtered. Just a thought.

Pat, why do you want to eliminate Tide? Tide, Gain and Cheer are made by the same company and they use many of the same ingredients across their product lines. The reformulated version of Cheer powder still has no OBs.

Mama, I'm not sure why Cheer liquid hasn't been reformulated. I would assume it will be soon since they are reformulating everything else.

Rococogurl, I agree the quality of t-shirts has gone down. I was speaking from personal experience when I was having issues with rapidly degrading fabric. My laundry is lasting longer and wearing less since I've eliminated detergents with cellulase. I plan to continue to read ingredient sheets and avoid any detergents with cellulase.

I'm not seeing a difference in the enzymes in Cheer powder Greeny..???

Mama, here is the link to the new ingredient sheet for Cheer powder:

http://www.pgproductsafety.com/productsafety/ingredients/Cheer_stay_colorful_Powdered_Detergent_Fresh_Clean.pdf

Where's the old link? I was almost sure this is the same as its been.

Mama, I can't find the old link either. The previous formulation only contained one enzyme-protease.