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providencesparrow

Hit our first snag in new build kitchen...

New build, about to break ground, and the builder, HVAC and truss subs are trying to figure out how to run air duct between the floors for house on slab foundation. Without going into tedious details, a solution was presented to me that we add a 28inch wall at the end of a cabinet run in order to support floor beam and allow a space for ducting to come through. Obviously I’m disappointed in how this would look, and another concern is how it will “close off” the window seat to the kitchen a bit. Any thoughts on how to incorporate this support wall? Changes we need to make? Who needs AC in half the house anyway right?! ;)

Comments (30)

  • 8 years ago

    Hmm, sounds like you need to have a talk with your architect and the structural engineer and tell them to fix it without compromising the open feel.

    providencesparrow thanked zmith
  • 8 years ago

    A 28" wall is going to stick out only a few inches past your cabinets. I believe it will be fine... especially since you have a wall to the left of the double oven to balance, as well. It is something you won't notice once the project is done. Your entire space is open, so that wall will provide a touch of definition between the kitchen and sitting room.

    providencesparrow thanked Carly Schwanz
  • PRO
    8 years ago

    This is a perfect example of when and how experienced professionals offer an immediate cost effective solution. Go for it, please. No need to run it up eight echelons of command for approval.

    providencesparrow thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • 8 years ago

    I assume there's a good reason they can't put it in the pantry?

    I think Carly is correct though--it won't be bad.

    Could you move it into the cabinet run? Turn it, stick it in the back of the cabinets, sacrifice storage, and use a tall cabinet instead of the upper-lower combo? Then it would be symmetricalish with the wall ovens. It could be the hutch type, not necessarily a pantry type cabinet.

    providencesparrow thanked Fori
  • 8 years ago

    My recommendation to bump it back to the architect because it is their screw up. Sure the suggested solutions might look ok, but why should the client have to live with a compromise as a result?

    providencesparrow thanked zmith
  • 8 years ago

    I agree with Sophie. Make it a feature and a cased opening. It's actually what I'm doing for my kitchen/living area, except I planned for the cased opening.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I like Sophie's idea for a cased opening too. I was also thinking that you could make that counter run extra deep so the extra few inches wouldn't be noticed and you'd have deeper counters! Extra bonus if your cabinets are custom - they'll be deeper and you'll have more space. (If they're not custom, then they'd just be pulled forward from the wall and there would be a support along the wall for the back of the counter.) And of course you'd need to watch your aisle spacing.

    You'd have to do something on the pantry end - either a narrower door or lose a couple inches of the cooktop run. That might not be worth it, but wanted to add another idea to the mix for consideration.

  • 8 years ago

    I agree with chicagoans idea of deepening the counters. Deeper counters are so much more useful and you have the room, it looks like.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Zsmith:

    They are architects, not Gods. They cannot alter the space/time continuum, despite the deference and reverence shown them here on Houzz. This isn’t the first time an archy was bailed out of trouble, it won’t be the last.

  • 8 years ago

    I’m with Sophie and cpartist on this. It feels too open to me the way it is. I also don’t love the look of the exposed end of an upper cabinet hanging there in space, even with a finished end. I always want to add something to make it look like a hutch if there isn’t a wall there. My kitchen has one cabinet like that and it always kind of bugs me.

    Plus the 2 walls now give you a spot on the other side for a wall sconce or some nice art of some sort.

  • 8 years ago

    How would you case the opening? It's open to the second floor at the other side isn't it? Or am I misinterpreting which opening is to be cased?

  • 8 years ago

    Thank you all so very much for your advice. This is really helping me to get many perspectives on the issue!

    Question:

    The “sitting room” is supposed to be a keeping room concept where my kids and hubby can sit and I can still talk w them when I am prepping at the island. Will the cased opening still allow this “feel” of connection between the two spaces? (I’m not opposed to making the spaces feel more intimate, just want to maintain strong connection).

    Is this what many are referring to as a more “hutch look” to that area? Yes cabinets are custom so I have some freedoms there.

    Fori- yes the other side of that “casement” would have an opening to upstairs. The details might get tricky on looking just right.

    Joseph- I agree that this is a collaborative effort on coming up w a solution. The various trades have all been helpful w their input and if this is the worse thing that happens during this build I will remain thankful!

  • 8 years ago

    This is a keeping room concept (sitting area as part of the kitchen) and the opening should not be cased. I just removed a pony wall and cased opening between my kitchen and family room and joined the ceilings as one. Everyone that walks in marvels at how much better it looks. On the other side of my pony wall was a set of French doors going out to our terrace. By removing the pony wall it makes the doors so much more accessible. I agree that this pony wall will take away from the look of the window seat. I would look for a different solution.

    providencesparrow thanked wilson853
  • 8 years ago

    Sorry providencesparrow. I was writing as you were posting.

    providencesparrow thanked wilson853
  • 8 years ago

    You could always incorporate it into the last cabinet & have a floor to ceiling cabinet/pantry that houses the HVAC. I've seen this done before. Or build out the wall right by the window & run it down there. You could do it on both sides of your window to keep it symmetrical.

    providencesparrow thanked mark_rachel
  • 8 years ago

    A pony wall is not a cased opening. I wouldn't do a pony wall.

    providencesparrow thanked cpartist
  • 8 years ago

    Yeah, that's the hutch type of thing I was thinking. It's just gentler than a full depth tall cabinet. Of course, pulling the top part back reduces interior space even more, but I think you can sacrifice the storage. You got storage. And obviously, glass doors wouldn't work so well because you would only have a few inches behind them...

    providencesparrow thanked Fori
  • 8 years ago

    Our pony wall had a column on the end, similar to this photo. It was a psychological barrier that stopped guests from venturing into the family room and sitting down.

    122-Shorncliffe-rd-Newton-MA · More Info

    providencesparrow thanked wilson853
  • 8 years ago

    Wilson, good point about the psychological barrier! Thank you for sharing that.

    My builder did a quick model of the suggested casement- I’m not sure I like it as well now. Thoughts? (And it would not be a beam, it would be a trimmed out casement)

    Thank you all!

  • 8 years ago

    Now ask him to show you it trimmed as white wood paneling.

    providencesparrow thanked cpartist
  • 8 years ago
    So You’re saying you’re running central air without a basement but they want to put air vents through the floor???
  • 8 years ago

    Claire, central air on slab and ducts will be in ceiling. Basements are not very feasible where I am located but they sure sound good right now! :)

  • 8 years ago

    Here's one with the sides trimmed out as well.

    Daniel Island · More Info

    As you can see, it gives definition between the two spots but gives the feel of complete openness for conversation. I happen to like the look and feel but not all do.

    providencesparrow thanked blfenton
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Put thecabinets in, and it will be fine. Because they butt to the wall. The header should be slightly taller as well. It’s disproportionate to the room width and isn’t to scale.

    Properly done, it shelters the kitchen and defines it. It doesn’t close in the space at all because it barely projects beyond the cabinets. It’s much better psychologically to not have a giant undifferentiated ceiling overhead. Setting boundaries is a very good thing in open concept. It solves a lot of problems that it has.

    providencesparrow thanked User
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I think the opening as drawn by the builder is a good start. It’s just out of proportion somewhat. I think if you do something to make the window seat a focus with trim of some sort then it will look more balanced. Not sure if I’m clear on how, but kind of like this. Also bring the opening down a bit to balance the width of the sides?

    or add bookshelves at either end of the seat,

    providencesparrow thanked Annette Holbrook(z7a)
  • 8 years ago

    Looks like a garage. Teehee! :)

  • 8 years ago

    Or another thought, build out a small wall (12” or less) to differentiate the window seat from the room, then duplicate on the other end of the window seat. It gives you space for some built in bookshelves, or wall lamps. Of course this will change the windows so it may be too late if you’ve already got windows on order.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Providencesparrow,

    Is the bottom pic from the drawing the kitchen side and if it is what is going in that deep corner?

    https://inspectapedia.com/aircond/Ducts_in_Slabs.php

    This is the reason why I asked you if you were running the central air pipes through the slab foundation

  • 8 years ago

    The wood stove wall is the architectural demarcation which defines the spaces on both sides. Another option may be to add a tall cabinet to the right of the dishwasher to house the ducting without disrupting the flow of the kitchen/keeping room space.

    Lubbock Parade 2011 Kitchen · More Info