Oh I some real concerns with this recipe. The small amount of salt and then even that is being rinsed off and not included in the fermentation process. Every approved kimchi recipe I have seen always includes salt, just as all approved fermentation recipes do. It is the salt that makes it safe. The Joy of Pickling recipes call for 3.5 T of pickling salt and a10-12 hour preset before rinsing but then still add an additional 1.5 T of salt to the vegetable mix when added to the crock.

Then there is the oil issue and no added water so definitely not enough liquid. Personally I'd take a pass on this recipe but that is JMO.

Dave

If you want to experiment, I would reduce the recipe by half, in case it does not work out the way you want it to. It does seem like a skimpy amount of salt - I use Mexican sea salt myself, and it is extremely coarse, but it has no additives. I don't think it would hurt to increase the amount of salt.

I have a Japanese pickle press, and I use it sometimes to make refrigerator pickles, but they are not left at room temperature more than a few hours, and I do not remember rinsing them.

Here's how I make Tsukemono.

When recipes call for kosher salt they generally mean Diamond, but the reason for that is because cooks can judge the quantity by feel. For a pickle, the reason for using kosher is because it isn't iodized, which is bitter, but any non-iodized salt would work, including Morton's non-iodized table salt. Since they don't specify weight, can you tell if the recipe is from a home cook (more likely to use Morton's) or a restaurant chef (almost certainly to mean Diamond)?

Perhaps start scant and taste?

Well the very first ingredient strikes me as odd. 6 pickling cucumbers, cut into 1” pieces (about 5 1/2 cups). Do 6 pickling cucumbers really make 5.5 cups? Aren't pickling cucumbers small?

Yeah, but cut into 1" pieces there would be a lot of gaps...

Good point about the small number of cukes called for. Also a good point about weights are not stipulated. Weight measurements can be vitally important in fermenting as they determine how much salt needs to be added.

Dave

I hope to get a response from Cooking Light and I'll post it if I do.

It might be just fine as is. I would want to read the copy with the recipe. Surprising that a bit of the authors experience and history is not included being a bit unusual for that magazine...I would guess Korean or similar and very familiar with fermentation methods.

Fermentation is not at all like processed canning. Oil is used often as an 'air-lock' in fermentation so I'm guessing with the other ingredients it is not a liquid brine but more of a oil cured type ferment.

No picture with the recipe?

I remember those days where we would have to wait an entire month for the next months mag to read 'responses and questions from readers' concerning recipe typos or failures.

A friend of mine married a Korean and we've had dinner at one of her favorite restaurants where many small dishes are brought out to share and used as condiments...her English is quite good having studied at NYU. She explained all the various ferments.

Some recipes like posted do not necessarily translate well since often temperatures in our kitchens are so varied depending on location.

Here it is. Found it. It looks fine as is. HERE

Fermentation does not always need salt. Salt is often used to speed up the process and various other reasons. Vegetables have their own salt, some more than others.

Yes, sleevendog, that's the full recipe. Since I will soon be overrun with cucumbers, I may try it even if I never hear from the magazine.

Looks like I'm a few weeks from cucumber harvest. Just now getting summer squash blossoms.

Why your recipe piqued my interest. Just found some other recipes. This one is a bit quicker...12-18 hours. I like my kimchi a bit quicker and crisp so this one I might like better. She has some good recipes. HERE

Glad you brought this up!

Thanks, sleevendog. It's very similar to Linda Ziedrich's stuffed cucumber kimchi, but easier. I'm going to try it soon.

Since you have the cucumbers, I would go ahead and make it. The photo looks very appetizing.

Email from Cooking Light:

Here are the
testing notes from the test kitchen:

The cucumbers
will produce liquid pretty quickly, even after the initial draining. They
continue to exude liquid, which will be plenty to cover them in about 2 days.
Pressing down and adding a weight protects them from the air as this process
happens.

Hope that helps!

I emailed back noting that the recipe says nothing about needing a weight other than the standard bag filled with liquid and added that most suggest using brine rather than water in case it breaks, and asked what strength brine would be used.

"It's very similar to Linda Ziedrich's stuffed cucumber kimchi, but easier. I'm going to try it soon."

Note that Ziedrich's recipe reserves the initial salted brine and re-adds it to the fermentation jar rather than dispose of it as this recipe has you do. So her recipe has a total of 5 tsp. salt rather than just 1.25 tsp.

"They continue to exude liquid, which will be plenty to cover them in about 2 days."

So they apparently have no concerns about the possible listeria or other pathogenic bacterial growth that can develop during those 2 days?

"that most suggest using brine rather than water in case it breaks, and asked what strength brine would be used."

They call for double bagging filled with 1 c water. That can be an effective "weight" and you can even increase the volume if needed. Basic brine - 1 tsp salt per cup of water - is sufficient.

"Fermentation does not always need salt. Salt is often used to speed up the process and various other reasons."

On that we will have to disagree as it's the salt that assures SAFE fermentation. Ziedrich has an excellent discussion about the importance of salt and the importance of salt ratios in her Joy of Pickling. So does NCHFP.

Dave

Thanks, Dave, I have worried about that, and have just emailed Cooking Light with your comments.

On the other hand, I just made the recipe that Sleevendog gave the link to on the My Korean Kitchen site. I'll be having it with dinner tomorrow.

Fermentation does not need salt. Basic 101. Don't take that out of context. Naturally occurring salt in vegetables IS salt. Just need to know what combination of vegetables to use with a vegetable that does not have enough natural salt.

A 5-7 day ferment is much different than a 6-12 month ferment.

Why I initially said the recipe looks fine as is. But having the full copy confirms that it is fine as is.

Gochujang is salt and fermented bean paste, etc. Fish sauce is salt as well. That is plenty of salt to set 6 sliced packed cucumbers to form a brine. Big whole dills? No, but that is not the written recipe. They are sliced to have a good salty coating of the other ingredients. 1/4 cup of sesame oil is very common. Another air-lock. I like it fine in a restaurant but not enough to make an oily ferment at home.

A water filled bag is a weight. If the bag breaks, it is no longer the written recipe...

I personally use salt for fermentations. I don't care for the flavor of whey and other methods used in no-salt ferments. But the recipe does have salt. It does not need 'added' salt. Or a brine. It will form its own brine rather quickly.

Lars, do you eat the kelp, or is it just for flavoring? Does the pickling process soften its texture? In the Tsukemono that is.

bcompix, may I ask what temp your kitchen tends to be? Right now I have my cucumber pickles in a different room in the house, but we air condition to 78 F. I realy should carry it all down to the basement which is a little cooler. Most of my pickles use a 5% (50 g/ liter) brine, but I understand that in warmer weather increasing the salinity could give better results.

I like your cooler idea, though. I might pick one up at a thrift store to try out your idea. Do you know what temps you keep in the cooler?l

I use a cheap room thermometer to track it, and keeping the interior of the cooler in the 60-70 degree range is working great. IMHO, the fermentation process generates a couple of degrees of heat on its own, so in a 78 degree kitchen you're almost at the deadly 80 threshold that even high salt levels can't mitigate. Using the half-size cooler we take in the canoe, one slender frozen drink bottle keeps the interior and two 2-quart containers of working ferments at 60-70F, and I think that this range is ideal. I replace the frozen bottle once a day.

That is, um, very cool. :)

Jay, I always eat the kelp, but it is traditional in Japan to throw it out. It does get softer, but then my brother always thinks that kelp is too chewy. However, he is supposed to be eating more of it now, and so I hope he will stop complaining when I put it in soups.

bcomplx, what's this "deadly 80 degree threshold" and what is there to mitigate? I'm taking you literally about the deadly thing, yet find it hard to believe that previous generations of Midwesterners, Southerners and others with summer temps well over 80 degrees were unable to make cucumber pickles. Even there in your Virginia you must have summer temps over 80F.

Yes, certainly summer temps well over 80 degrees, but fermentation was not a common way to "pickle" in this country except among certain new immigrants, specifically German. (The type of pickles made by all the country people I know here in WV is with vinegar. Not fermented) And most kraut is made in the fall. Most fermented foods, with the exception of yogurt, kefir etc (which do want some warmth), come from cold countries--Korea, Japan, Russia, eastern Europe in general. Not much in the way of fermented veggies in the Mediterranean area, I don't think.

I think root cellars made summer fermentation possible in many climates, but I never saw one until I was 10, visiting an aunt in Iowa. Not many basements in the south, either. Oh, and I didn't mean deadly poisonous, only deadly to the batch because the cucumbers go soft and slimy at higher temperatures.

If they get too hot, they've also been known to expand and blow up. :) It can even happen in a root cellar if the weather gets hot enough.

Mediterranean--- Olives are fermented.

That's a good point about vinegar pickles. I guess I like fermented cucumber pickles so much better than vinegar pickles that I had a mental block. I sort of forgot they existed. (I have, though, made two batches of vinegar pickles this summer.)

And, hey, the first time I tried to ferment cucumbers, I set a 5 gallon bucket in my kitchen and then left town for 2 weeks with the A/C turned off. I came home to quite a mess. I was young and dumb.

I moved all my pickles to the basement now. One thermometer says 74 and the other says 76. Either way, that's an improvement over 78.