That's lovely Jeri. And the foliage is perfect - living proof that some varieties really need to be budded, at least here in So. California. I notice HMF lists it as 'disease resistant'. It was just the opposite in my yard. Thanks for brightening our morning too.

In my garden, Mary, it appeared to be disease-resistant -- until we stopped spraying. Then, what a mess.
But yeah -- this is ONE rose where budding mattered.

According to Mike Shoup, this is a good rose for a hot and dry climate, and the one he offers at ARE is not budded. I didn't order it because he said it was slow-growing and would take forever to outgrow bunny predation. The little varmints are reaching up ever further in order to get to the leaves.

I know ARE offers it own-root only -- and that's where I obtained it, long ago. Nevertheless, though it grew slowly, it bloomed heartily, and I didn't mind at all that it was a short, stumpy sort of rose.

My climate was not, then, hot and dry . . . So when we quit spraying, it was overcome by rust, and was removed. If your climate was, in fact, "hot and dry" I think it might be a good rose -- but I would try to give it at least some afternoon shade to preserve those very dark colored blooms.

This plant is, clearly, going to be taller, and more graceful, and it is very, very clean. But it shares the desire to bloom heavily and almost constantly, and I remember how much I loved it.

I have 5 of EdB in my garden. When we moved in there were 2 of them (this info was gathered/discovered over many years, as when we moved in here my garden was FULL of "mystery roses", and I had no idea who any of them were). One of the two we dug up and moved, as it was dwindling and unhappy. Of course, 10 years later when its original position in the garden started to get more light due to a tree being cut down, up it popped again there and started blooming! That made three.

The other original one rooted itself when my FIL decided to peg it many years ago. We cut off and moved the new plant, which is #4. It eventually produced another plant by suckering, which makes #5. So, none of them are rooted cuttings, and they are all on their own roots. They don't get very big, but they bloom a lot, and do not get any diseases here. Very strong "old rose" fragrance, too.

Jackie

Yeah, Jackie -- But there's a world of difference between your very mature plants and what people grow up from bands.

And then, of course, there are different environments.

Yes, of course. Our climate (so far, at least) is very good for roses, as long as they get irrigated in the summer.

I also think any rose which "roots itself", and then is discovered and moved, has a way better chance at thriving than a tiny rooted cutting which arrives in the mail. Also, the soil in the beds in our garden is like black gold to about 1-2 feet down; it has been gardened for so long, and is by now mostly clay based loam. I am so lucky - I don't think I would have taken to saving and growing more old roses if it had been difficult to get them to grow.

Jackie

Your little corner of creation is blessed by the hands and hearts of those who went before.

I was out in the garden early this morning, and saw this bloom out of the corner of my eye. The blooms on all of my EdB bushes usually look like the pictures you posted above, Jeri. However, this one fully open bloom was darker, more purple, and very very velvety. Just the weather, I'm sure. I ran and took a picture of it - isn't it pretty?

Jackie

It will age to that color. I just threw a bloom away this morning, but it was easily that dark.

Some years back, one of the LA area exhibitors who went on to hold other offices in the "rose world", gave several people grief over the variability of Eugene. This person disqualified a number of blooms as not being the "right rose" due to the color not being what they expected it to be. Just goes to show how wildly variable temps, light, humidity, water, etc. can cause. That IS pretty, Jackie.

They DQ'd MY spray as "not a China."
I have rarely been as pissed off over anything at a rose show as I was that day. IDIOTS.

I know I am ignorant completely of competitive "rose shows", and I guess I am naive in thinking that those who judge such have some knowledge of old roses, if old roses are allowed in the show. Is this common to have such ignorant people doing the judging? Anyone who knows anything about old roses knows that many have variable colors - that is pretty fundamental. Also that some old roses are both chinas AND something else, as "hybrid china" implies that in the words. Is this sort of nonsense still going on? I always assumed that rose show judges were required to have some sort of minimum education/knowledge of different classes of roses. Now, one could look up a rose, say on HMF, if some ignoramus tried to disqualify it erroneously. Do they allow that?

The more I hear about competitive "rose shows", the more I am glad that my fundamental personality is NOT competitive in any way (one of my old bosses told me once "You are certainly territorial, but not at all competitive." He was right, in all areas of life.

Jackie

I am not now, nor have I ever been (nor will ever be!) an exhibitor nor judge, but from the few times I have observed and the MANY stories and complaints I have heard over the past three-plus decades, yes, it has frequently been the case of having people ignorant about the types judge those types. Several well known judges over the years were very well known for loathing anything but the high-centered, "Kordes Peak", HT form, with one regularly commenting that nothing without it was ever going to win a show in which this judge participated. It's like anything else. There will always be "some of those". I guess you shouldn't expect not to have folks ignorant about particular classes of roses, judge those classes. Exhibitors are "graying" just like rose growers and a very large portion of the populace are. Finding anyone who WILL judge is likely becoming increasingly more difficult. Hopefully, there are more of that smaller subset of rose growers who do know more about OGRS than previously.

FWIW, Clay and I were often asked to become judges. We were told that if we were judges, other judges would take our knowledge seriously. (That just annoyed me.)

I replied that I would do that, IF I could judge only the classes I knew well. They don't do it that way. We would have to judge HTs and so forth ... and we would probably make horrendous errors if we did that.

So we passed.

Dog shows don't do that. You start out with 1-2 breeds. Breeds you know well. And only gradually add others. There are very few "All 'Rounders." I alway thought rose shows should be that way.

It's probably easier to find dog show judges than rose show judges.

It probably is. And one reason that it's easier to find dog show judges is that they get PAID for their work, and their expenses are covered, including airfare around the country.

OTOH, I've encountered more than a few that had no clue. Ah well . . .