"Climate" = your local vicinity or instead your entire ecological region? Because Norway maple apparently does seed out in the Rockies:

https://www.eddmaps.org/distribution/uscounty.cfm?sub=3002

We have droughty summers over my way also, yet before volunteers started after them one Seattle park had thousands of spontaneous Norway maple seedlings coming along.

Emerald Lustre ('Pond') is a Bailey nursery production. See their depiction here:

https://shop.baileynurseries.com/Product/Detail/0020?availabilityDate=2020-01-08&returnUrl=%2FProduct%2FInventory

No trees grow naturally within ~10 miles of my house. I would give a Norway maple (or any other tree) a .001% chance of reseeding in any natural area around where I live.

If the planting site is moist enough for the species to make an attractive specimen it is moist enough for nuisance seedlings to come up within the irrigated area.

OK, I see what you're saying. I would just have to put up with that aspect of the tree.

I'm specifically wondering about the fall color of this tree. I've never seen a Norway color up well, but this cultivar claims to have good fall color.

I've grown plenty of them over the years. I don't have as many in the ground in as I used to since they have really fallen out of favor in landscaping. It's a great tree for transplanting though. Probably why it used to be such a preferred tree. Have not grown Emerald Queen, however. Tried Superform but wasn't overly impressed. And I am done with Royal Red. That tree is too painfully slow, in my growing conditions at least.

Never have felt the need to replace it with another Norway. As already mentioned, it is a Bailey's introduction. They're based in Minnesota. I'm in Minnesota. Generally trees they promote as hardy for the north do well for me. Go figure, right? Can be fussy if put in the wrong spot. Needs well-drained soil. Have seen some stunted trees in poor locations with fat trunks and dwarf heads.

I have witnessed some limited invasiveness in the heart of Twin Cities metro area but nothing out where I am. Still have yet to find a single seedling pop up in our windbreaks and uncultivated field areas. Winter nighttime lows are noticeably colder the further out you go, of course. Maybe that's why. Not sure though.

Emerald Lustre's fall color is just okay, in my opinion. Pales in comparison to most other maples around here. But remember, you have box elders that turn incredible fall color there, right? Here box elder just turns pale green, crinkles, and drops. Who knows what a Norway might do in your local climate.

There has also been some recent research showing that various cultivars of Norway Maple have much lower rates of both seed production and seed viability, so this might be worth a look: https://onnurserycrops.com/2016/07/07/research-shows-some-norway-maple-cultivars-are-not-invasive/

mntreegrower - Thanks! You mentioned stunted trees, does Emerald Lustre handle alkaline soil well? I've got about 6" of good dirt on top of pretty marginal native soil and everything I've planted seems to be free from chlorosis so far, but you never know. To me Norways seem to tolerate high soil ph because there are a few in my town that are growing very well and not missing a beat. Also, have you noticed any die back from cold?

You are so knowledgeable and have so much experience with many of the trees I'm interested in. Are you a professional landscaper or work in the nursery industry?

I remember Platanoides being more "salt" tolerant than "alkaline'' tolerant. That is why they are seen growing so well everywhere across the metro's of the NE states, where roads are still salted in Winter. Saccharum has difficulty in salted cities, but maybe more tolerant in alkaline areas. I'm not saying they are alkaline "proof'' however. --- I believe the least alkaline sensitive maple is Acer Rubrum 'Redpoint.' Beautiful tree!

Lane, What's the ph of your native soil?

That will help in determining what will grow there and what won't.

I know you mentioned your layer of top soil added and that would be a plus and I don't know if that added soil would eventually take on the same ph as the native soil eventually.

Here's a list of trees that can tolerate hi ph levels. Although that doesn't guarantee they will grow on highly alkaline soils. And usda zone hardiness and/or constant, incessant wind, if present, need to be factored in also.

We visited a farm in N. western S. Dakota and anything ornamental they planted would be subjected daily (and nightly) to wind, strong enough to whip any new growth coming in the spring to the point the tree would'nt be able to establish enough new green growth for photosynthesis and would eventually die.

FWIW: Russian Olive (Elaeagnus angustifolia) not on the previous list, seems to grow out west and is seen frequently when traveling through those areas but I suppose you have some of those already. :-)

I did a home test once, and it was like upper 7s I think, it could be over 8 though, I forgot. I should get a professional soil test.

Acer negundo 'Sensation' is a striking specimen well suited for extreme harsh climates. Have seen this tree growing locally and must plant one for myself!

Despite what J. Frank Schmidt nursery says I think the appearance and behavior of the Redpointe ('Frank Jr.') adds up to it being a Freeman maple:

https://jfschmidt.com/introductions/redpointe/index.html

Frozebud - yes the negundo Sensation is a great tree! Look at the Fall color thread from this year and you'll see some pictures of some nice Sensation negundo from my town. My neighbors on either side of me have one, but I'd prefer to have something different for variety's sake.

They believe it likely has "Freemonii" in it. I had read where the original was found growing next to Freeman's.

I have been growing one for a few years now in SoCal, where our soil and water are at the 7.8 ph level. It is about 10' tall now and growing how it is described. No, yellowing or marginal leaf-burn. This year Fall color was much better than previous, with a beautiful red color, with orange and yellow mixed in. https://www.jfschmidt.com/redpointe/

In the past, I have tried a few of the species & Brandywine (Red Maple) and their leaves literally burn-off the tree by August, and further growth is stunted.

By the way, when I bought this tree (Big Bear Lake, CA) They did have ''Sensation'' however it was double the price of ''Redpointe.''

'I did a home test once, and it was like upper 7s I think, it could be over 8 though, I forgot. I should get a professional soil test.'

Ph of 9 is pretty rare but if you have white borax showing on top of ground, it's entirely possible but I'm guessing the chances are slim that you do.

Your local soil & water extension office could help you with that. They may even have records that will tell you approximately what levels are in most areas, otherwise they can explain how to take a good soil sample and they'll send it in for analysis, usually for a few dollars.

This may save you some money: https://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/

If you have difficulty, you can send me your location (as specific, as you like) and I will send you the info page.

That’s pretty cool, Pecci. Thanks for sharing the link!

Let us know the #s. Remember to go to the depth that the root zone will inhabit. If your soil has 1+ more ingredients, average it all. If I were you, I would check your EC (salt content). Remember your H2O #s count too.

I am primarily Pewamo silty clay loam, very poorly drained - yes to that - with a pH around 7. parent material is Wisconsin till from limestone and shale. Lots and lots of info there if you poke around a bit!

Good. I'm glad it helped. Let us know what follow-up with.

"You mentioned stunted trees, does Emerald Lustre handle alkaline soil well? Also, have you noticed any die back from cold?"

I can't say first hand how well Emerald Lustre handles high pH but I have certainly never had a problem with chlorosis in Norway like I have occasionally in Acer rubrum. Winter damage on Lustres is not common here. But I think last winter's harsh extreme temperature swings and cold started to push some Norways to their limit. I noticed some city areas where the boulevard Norways seemed lacking in vigorous new growth. Was that due to the extreme cold low temps we had? Did they maybe reach their salt tolerance limit due to the heavy abundance of snow from February to April? I also have no way of knowing which cultivars those might be.

The worst problem I have with Emerald Lustre is that some trees develop a canker over the winter months. The trunk canker is often long and resembles sun scald damage. But it can happen on even the northern sides of the trunks. And it usually occurs in heavier soil areas that go into winter quite saturated. I can lose somewhere between 5% and 10% of a crop over the years to this if the conditions are right. Is this winter hardiness related? Might be. (By the way, the trees rarely ever die from this, but I can no longer sell them with trunk wounds that'll take years to heal.)

Yes, I am in the nursery business. Growing, buying, selling trees.

JF Schmidt’s catalog lists Emerald Lustre as zone 3, compared to Deborah as 3b, Emerald Queen as 4, and Crimson King as 4. Jeffries Nurseries (Portage la Prairie, MB) doesn’t list Emerald Lustre but calls Deborah “the hardiest Norway maple in our testing program”.

The few Emerald Lustres we planted (>20 years ago; we haven't been planting Norways for quite a while) have tended to be wider than tall at maturity, and fall color hasn't been any better than other Norways IMO.

How so easily I can forget things... I have tried Deborah (and Princeton Gold) as well. I wasn't overly impressed with Deborah. At least of the trees I sampled, they didn't have near as nice of a branching habit as Emerald Lustre.

I think your best bet for hardiness if you want to take a chance on a Norway is Emerald Lustre. Attractive new growth with a pretty clean leaf. The problems I talked about above are most likely related to my very heavy clay soil. And are fairly minor when considering the volume I am planting. I'd say plant one. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

I'd love to try that Sensation Box Elder just to see if it would turn beautiful fall color here. But there is absolutely zero demand for that tree.

Pecci - thanks. I was not aware of the above trees. I will look into them for sure.

Mntree grower - I have been impressed with the sensation negrudo, however if I were able to grow a red, sugar or even a freeman maple I doubt I ever try a sensation box elder lol. I'm going to give it a try after reading everything; I've got a spot where the Sienna Glen maple I tried to grow died ha ha.