June us correct. But it may be a local thing. The spice kitchen is popular with South Asian families so in the GTA it might be expected at certain levels.

My sister was a private chef for a HNW family who had a butler’s pantry in a 1930s-built home (since updated). It was used to store their myriad china and silver and glassware. They entertained A LOT.

Yeah, the expectations of what is in a 5,000 sq ft house in the GTA is going to be very neighbourhood specific. What you’d expect in a Rosedale mansion is different from what you’d see in Richmond Hill is different from the expectations in Markham. Id check some local comps, see if they consistently have spice rooms or butler pantries, and go from there.

Also, for anyone building a 5k sqft house in Toronto, the cost of adding a spice kitchen would be a nominal additional cost.

I think I meant Prep Kitchen.

Thanks yes, my builder brought it up. Seems to be common practice for Asian families, etc. I think it helps from cooking smelly foods or keeping the main kitchen clean vs. secondary kitchen dirty.

I think the butler pantry space between the kitchen and dining room is a small space anyway, so I don't see much downside in building it, but I'm not sure we would actually use it. Feels like some storage and a sink.

The mini kitchen behind the main kitchen, is called a Prep Kitchen.

A prep kitchen is an ancillary space, immediately accessible from the main kitchen. Its purpose is to support the functions of the kitchen by offering an additional work zone while providing some visual concealment from the perspective of the main kitchen. At a minimum, it should include plenty of counter space and a sink. Beyond that, the design and appliances can be highly customized to the individual homeowner’s needs.

https://www.hungelingdesign.com/blog/why-you-will-want-a-prep-kitchen

Does anyone actually use a Prep kitchen after building it? Seems interesting in concept, but is it used and worth the money?

I’m not a professional, but in researching prep kitchens during our build, we concluded that they’re useful if you entertain frequently (i.e. have caterers coming in a lot) or regularly have hired staff cooking for you. If not, I can’t really see the point.

I grew up with a real butlers pantry between the kitchen and DR it was used as mentioned for “good; china , crystal etc it also had a set up for a bar and I guess if I had one now a mini fridge and a DW but honestly I run a catering biz from my kitchen and still have no reason to have a prep kitchen or actual butlers pantry. BTW I aslo dislike walk in pantries, but the best advice for kitchen design is a good independant kitchen deisner that designs a kitchen for how you live and cook.

My friends have a prep kitchen which is used by catering staff when they entertain. Otherwise it just serves as extra storage. And in my friends' case, their prep kitchen, which they did not design, is not really big enough for the caterers, so they use both spaces. Their main kitchen is closed off, so they don't have catered in the middle of the living space, so I really don't see the point in their case. If I had an open plan kitchen, and entertained, I would insist on a prep kitchen for myself or caterers.

I have a large kitchen - my prep sink is off to the side, then my butlers panty (maybe 10x7' overall) between kitchen and dining. I love love love the extra counterspace and cabinets. We ended up using the BP for more "seldom used" dishes, and all of our fine china ended up in a display hutch inside the Dining Room.

How we use it, it's nice when you need the extra counter space for crock pots, finished platters, etc that don't need attending to. In the end of the day though, nobody wants to be prepping food inside of a glorified closet so we all do all the work at the main kitchen island to "be in the action" and have conversation. I feel like this is why "chef's islands" aka double islands are popular.

Thanks, I don't see myself ever using caterers. My wife bakes and cooks with meat, but can't see her using the prep kitchen often. Seems like it would just be more comfortable to use the main kitchen and have the mess.

It seems to be big in my area (Lawrence / Leslie in North York). So I am thinking about resale, even though its my forever home.

I'm thinking maybe do a big walk in pantry behind the kitchen and add a sink.

For Kitchen design, wouldn't I just go to a place that sells kitchen stuff and use their designer that they have?

I think it depends if you think it would get used for your life style. You mentioned you didn't think your wife would use it and you only have people over a few times a year. Would that space be better used for something else?

We have a friend who does a lot of informal entertaining (appetizers). They have a 4,900 sq. foot home. She uses her "mess" kitchen a lot for this. She likes to have her everyday kitchen all picked up and ready for company rather than last minute rushing to get the kitchen picked up. She loves it but she only uses it when she entertains. She does not use caterers. They also have a butler's pantry for linens and better dishes and a separate walk in pantry.

You need a real Kitchen Designer. One who sells you cabinets may or may not be qualified to design. Their primary role is to sell you lots of expensive stuff though. That’s how they make their money. Their role isn’t necessarily to create the best space that works for you. For that, you need a paid separately and in advance for design only true designer. Preferably one who uses their kitchen for more than reheating takeout.

Depends on your lifestyle. If you feel you need a work kitchen and a display kitchen, then go for it. If you think you would just use the main kitchen more than needing 2 kitchens, then skip it. Use that space for something else.

If you are planning on building now, and plan on this being your forever home, by the time you are gone the trend or usefulness of having 2 kitchens might be past. Don't plan your house for after your death, plan your house for how you live your life.

Resale is not much of an issue if you plan on holding on to the house a while. No matter what you do, tastes will change and if your house is pricey, people will want what they choose, not you.

As for a kitchen designer, do your homework here. Read the new to kitchens sticky thread. Browse lots of kitchen images, I love the Canadian magazine House and home, to get an idea of what is in and what is on its way out and then decide on if you need independent professional help, instead of a salesperson. A salesperson can do a perfectly adequate job, so long as you know what you want.

First, I disagree with the idea that two kitchens are more expensive. Our cabinets in the prep kitchen are largely just cheap cabinets with a stainless steel top from a restaurant supply store. The top cost us about $250 bucks and the cabinets are low end cabinets from IKEA.

In my home we don't want/need a second kitchen, so I moved to something more akin to a working pantry. It is some of the most useful square footage in my home and I would fight for it. We have a decent sized walk-in cooler in ours, as well as an herb cultivator. The only cooking we do in there is the slow cooker or the sous vide cooker.

On the farm we have a small commercial kitchen behind the main kitchen and that is the only place I ever cook when I am there. I mean we have a salamander in there and all of my cooking is better with a deluxe cheese melter.

I feel good design between kitchen, eating and living areas will be a goal paying you back while you're living in the house as well as for resale. Adding rooms/spaces to use up square footage because of designs from yesteryear . . .that doesn't appeal to me at all. It has the sense of lack of past experience means you can't rely on your own ability to evaluate value. I can use space for things I find more important.

I have a 'party pantry' where I keep all the drinks and glassware, etc. When I'm entertaining [i casually entertain often] people go back there and grab drinks, etc. The blender is there too for a blended drink... It backs to the food pantry so I can use the counter there when I'm putting groceries away. And I can put a slow cooker, etc.

I have always seen them referred to as wok kitchens. Why not design a large pantry with the necessary utilities roughed in, so that a future buyer could add appliances and turn it into a secondary kitchen if that is what they needed.

I’ve designed many kitchens with butler’s pantries for lots of dish storage, or grease kitchens for messy food prep. Sometimes both in one house. Plus a canning pantry or cool larder.

Designing a home food production space that is customized to the family that uses it is entirely a different thing than the usual generic builder’s options. Architecture constrains some choices. But step 1 of a good design is an in depth analysis of what you cook, who cooks it, and how you cook it. Those are not the questions that you usually get at your local box store cabinet seller. I‘ve done grease kitchens with deep fryers, or wok burners. or a host of counter surface with places for buffet warmers to plug in. Custom design that fits the family.

Some versatility is a good goal to build in, but what’s the point of building a large custom home if it works only for a mythical “resale family!”