If I were a 1960's housewife, this is the soap opera I would be watching while drying clothes.

Charles Ross Homes - agree in most circumstances. We're our own GC so it's a little different as we're cutting the checks and ultimately responsible for the outcome. However, on a "different" build, developing some relationships with the people doing the work can be helpful. Not to alter command and control, but to provide additional clarification real time vs having to redo and asking folks their input / showing appreciation etc.

It is not something that everyone should or can do and it's heavily dependent on the personalities of the parties involved.

Not sure the answer - but something has to improve communication and calm the waters here - not sure that's it - but current path doesn't appear to be working.

As I said, I'm not an attorney, but I learned along time ago the importance of a single point of command and control. I've had clients order changes directly to my trade contractors which I didn't learn about until I received an invoice from my trades. Now my contract specifically requires

"All communications concerning construction of the residence shall be between the OWNER and the BUILDER. At no time shall the OWNER or OWNER'S representative(s) instruct the workmen on the job."

With the already elevated tensions on the OP's job, I'd be concerned about anything that could be construed as instructing workmen on the job.

Hi everyone... here are a few updates on our build saga...

We did have a thorough review of our build contract and issues with a well-respected construction attorney here in Tampa. His advise echoed much of what has been discussed and recommended in this thread. We feel much better having a confirmation related to the cost-plus aspects of the contract and what constitutes a breach of contract, etc.

Regarding the resolution of my expert identified issues, the “roof issue” has raised its ugly head again. My expert texted me early Saturday morning raising a concern that the data the roofing company has provided does not fully address the Florida Building Code compliance issue. We’ve asked the Architect and GC for additional information on this issue as follows:

————————————————————-

Email from client to architect on Mar 27...

Good morning Robert,

I know we thought my experts question associated with our non-adhered roof was resolved, however, further research continues to raise a concern that the roof installation may not meet Florida Building Code requirements.

As provided by Joe in an earlier email, the roof has been installed as follows:

(Image 1 & 2 showing GAF TPO Membrane installation details)

Please notice the minimum design pressure (MDP) of -30.0 psf.

2017 FBC and ASCE 7-10 have MDP requirements for the corners (zone 3) and edges (zone 2) of the roof as follows:

(Images 3, 4, 5, & 6) showing MDPs for corners and edges of the roof.

Zone 2 (edges) requires an MDP of -40.89 psf.

Zone 3 (corners) requires an MDP of -60.47 psf.

The supporting documents provided by Joe, GAF and the roofing subcontractor appear to report an allowable rating of -30 psd max.

With this additional information, please confirm and provide additional documentation from GAF that the as-built roof installation meets FBC and ASCE 7-10 requirements.

Thank you,

Sam

————————————————

I had a brief discussion Saturday afternoon with the GC and he still thinks the roof meets code but my expert is concerned that the edges and corners of the roof will need to have some repair or remediation to increase the uplift resistance to high winds. I will hopefully find out the roofers position in a few days.

"I'm not an attorney and I don't give legal advice, but I think inserting yourself into the day-to-day construction activities and communicating directly with trade contractors is not a good idea. There needs to be a single point of command and control on a new build and the owner shouldn't be it."

OMG, it's happened. Charles and I agree.

@Joe Corlett... completely agree. I’m not inserting myself between my GC and his subs. I have a separate design agreement with the architect so there is direct communication with him. I’m trying to maintain open communication with my GC and architect. One of my challenges from day 1 has been lack of transparency... I would prefer if my GC was much more transparent about day-to-day plans, expenses, and issues.

Sam - Just saw a book that reminded me of you - All Quiet on the Western Front . . .

Just wondering what’s happened during the past 25 days since your last post!

Wow... has it already been 25 days since my last post? Time flies when we’re having fun... NOT! Things have actually been going incrementally better... it’s a bit of a dance with our builder and his partner. Related to the roof design pressure issue I posted about, the roofing company hired an engineer who created a report that verified that the design pressures meet or exceed Florida Building Code minimums. The MEP rough-in is essentially done with a few minor hanging chads / revisions. Our low-voltage wiring rough-in has also been completed. The windows and exterior doors are being installed next week. The 2 small skylights are being framed in next week. At that point, the roof can be completed. The next major exterior step after windows and doors is stucco where we’ve settled on a subcontractor. On the interior side, we’ve decided to do the interior tiling prior to drywall because of the reglet detail (no baseboards) that we are using. I’ll post some pictures and check in again after we make some progress on the items listed. Thanks for checking in!

Hey Sam, welcome back, and thanks for the update!

I'm glad that things moving along, and it seems like you should be in around Christmas of 2022/3 :-) typical timetable for Florida turnaround for new home construction... but don't lose hope, we all cheering for you.

Keep us updated!

Good luck

Hello everyone… I wanted to post a short update to let everyone know that earlier today our attorney sent a notice of termination to our builder. We have selected a new builder who is taking over from the current stage (rough-in essential complete) through CO. There is a somewhat convoluted and complex process with our bank to change builders but we should be able to complete the change process in 30-45 days. At some point during the timeframe we will issue a new notice of commencement with the city that allows our new builder to begin work under the permit. Our new builder, while still small and a custom builder, is more than capable to see the build through completion. We plan on maintaining many of the major subs going forward (e.g., electrical, HVAC, Roof). Next steps when we resume is some minor framing tweaks, spray foam insulation, stucco exterior, and interior drywall.

Best of luck on your new builder relationship. Keep us posted.

I hope that the new builder does a better job for you. Fingers crossed!

Wow. Hope the new builder does a better job.

Are you able to say what the final straw was? In your previous post it sounded like things were on an ok path?

@pineapplecake It was a number of factors that lead to the decision. We started exploring the possibility of changing builders with our bank and found a highly recommended builder who was willing to takeover the job under similar terms & conditions as the current builder. Our builder’s lack of oversight of his subcontractors and inefficiency managing the work was costing us money. We weighed the risk of staying with the current builder versus the new builder and made the decision to cut our ties.

Sam, thanks for the update, and sorry to hear it had to come down to that, and I hope it will be a much smoother sail with the new builder!

Good luck to you and keep us updated!

Thanks for the answer, Sam. I just happened to read through this whole saga from the beginning last night, and I really feel for you all. We are similarly detail-oriented, and it's so stressful to have work being done that you can tell is not being done right, and then the contractor pushes back on you about it.

I wish you luck with your new builder, and will look forward to seeing photos when it's all done!

I'd pay fifty bucks to hear the dismissed builder's side of this. Somehow I doubt he's unhappy it's over.

Hi Joe, absolutely 2 sides to every story. We’ve spoken to many other owners who’ve had issues with their builders here in Tampa. Our problems are not unique. I suspect it’s mostly a matter of degree. In our case, we were paying top dollar for a custom modern home builder and barely getting code compliance and in many instances significant rework to get to code compliance. On top of that, our builder wants to bill us for all rework including code compliance issues under a contingency clause of our contract.

I just can't imagine a builder wanting to step in half way through another guy's project.

I was surprised about finding a new builder who wanted to jump in on the project. I’ve read a ton of posts on Houzz about how difficult it is to find a new GC to step in when something goes wrong with a bathroom or kitchen remodel. I thought it would be nearly impossible to find one to jump in on an entire house!

Sam - was it difficult to find someone? How do you price out the contract?

@Joseph Corlett, LLC,

I've completed homes for a number of clients whose builder either wasn't performing or went bankrupt during the build. I never viewed those projects as "another guy's project." By contrast, I viewed them as the clients' project which had gone awry and where they needed help to complete it. Each were more grateful at completion because of their prior experience and our team felt an enhanced sense of satisfaction for having turned things around for the client.

Charles,

You nailed it! We had just finished an ugly confrontation with our builder and were taking a walk in our neighborhood. Every day we walk by a similar custom home that’s gone up in half the time. By complete chance, the owner of the company and his superintendent were at the property. We struck up a conversation and he offered to take a look at our project. One thing let you another. We did our due diligence on him and he’s willing to take it over to help us out. He already secured us drywall before a price increase on June 1st and we haven’t even given him a deposit. Someone was looking out for us.

Charles:

It depends. I've taken over for other guys. My favorite is when the tough-guy-know-it-all husband hired the cheapest moron he could find, the project blows up in his face, and his wife is really pi$$ed because it's taking so long and/or looks so bad. Suddenly, money is no object, but getting his wife off his a$$ is.

"You think hiring a professional is expensive? Try hiring an amateur." - Red Adair

@Joseph Corlett, LLC,

Context matters. The OP's issue is not a straightforward task like a sink or countertop replacement or even a remodeling project, but rather, construction of a new custom home. The size of the investment is measured in hundreds of thousands of dollars-- not a few thousand or even tens of thousands of dollars. Every dimension of taking over such a project is different from the simple and straightforward.

Joseph, I too thought I hired well the first time and obviously I didn't. If I could have, I would have loved to have switched builders.

Sorry Charles, taking over someone else's job is taking over someone else's job. The scale is hardly relevant. The guy who takes over a $1,000.00 job and blows it gets the exact same crap online review as the guy that took over a $10,000.000.00 job and blew it does.

I am going to miss this thread after construction is completed. Maybe Sam will build another house soon?

He might Mark, at least he got the experience now, the next one should be a smooth sail :-)

Haha… I think @cpartist might build a new home before us! FWIW… we just walked the project with our new GC. His comment was that he’s heard good things about our builder. He’s perplexed why its taken him so long to get the project to this point. We broke ground in Jan/Feb 2020. He said that we should have been at the current state last summer. We didn’t really experience too many COVID-related delays except for the window delivery timeframe. The new GC’s biggest concern is securing material for the pre/post drywall stages so we aren’t forced to wait for material. There is some complications with our bank associated with changing builders that could contribute to the complexity. I’ll take some photos so y’all can see the current state of the home.

securing material for the pre/post drywall stages:

Feb '21-present we've experienced new delays in getting doors, acrylics, anything shipped overseas as ports were backed up. Composite lumber products used for floor joists, OSB, MDFs (cabinet and trim products) all pretty scarce. Some manufacturers are still not producing all models of products instead focusing on high volume products (appliances, fixtures, etc) and some brands are 6 months out. Important to make those commitments early for cabinet design.

Fortunately, we already met with our cabinet guy and new builder… we are good on the custom cabinets. We haven’t placed the appliance order yet but we will commit in the near term on them.

Sam:

Is your original builder okay with the written termination? He may be as relieved as you are although he may feel like you need to settle with him.

I‘ve been wondering the same thing about your old builder - you didn’t comment about how he reacted to the termination. I didn’t want to bring it up in case it was nasty - but since Joseph has already done so - let’s hear the gossip! 😂

The initial reaction from our terminated builder was surprisingly pleasant. There is quite a list of things the builder needs to complete within 7 business days of the notice. I suspect that there may be some issues with a couple of the items. We intentionally put ourselves in a position where we owe him money to hopefully incentivize him to complete the process in a timely manner.

Here are the specific demands from our attorney:

Owner hereby demands that “builder” provide the following within seven (7) business days of the date of this letter, all of which Owner is entitled to obtain under the Contract, Florida law and/or required by Owner’s Lender1:

• A final Payment Affidavit (pursuant to Section 713.06(3)(d) Florida Statutes) and any other affidavits, executed by the appropriate parties, which are necessary under Florida law for Owner’s recording of a Notice of Termination of Notice of Commencement.
• “Builder’s” final pay application, and all required supporting documentation, including but not limited to executed lien waivers for all subcontractors, for all work actually performed through the date of this letter.
• A complete and detailed written inventory of stored materials, including but not limited to the items listed below, whether stored on-site or off-site (including such information as unit prices, quantities, values, and storage location), and “builder’s” cooperation in Owner’s verification of such written inventory, including Owner’s access to all stored materials.
• A complete list of any and all deposits paid to date for any materials, equipment, or other items that have not been delivered to the Project site or an off-site location accessible or controlled by Rokop, or otherwise not included in the above-referenced written inventory of stored materials.
• A complete list of all subcontractors and suppliers who furnished any labor, materials, equipment, or other items or services for the Project, including names, street addresses, email addresses and telephone numbers.
• Complete copies of all subcontracts, equipment rental agreements, and material purchase agreements/purchase orders, and any other agreements with subcontractors or suppliers for the Project;
• Documentation required for Owner, at Owner’s election, to exercise any contractual rights that it may have to take legal assignment of any or all subcontracts, supplier agreements and other contractual rights of Rokop as to which Owner elects to take assignment for the purpose of fully vesting in Owner the rights and benefits under such agreements, and “Builder’s” cooperation with such assignments to Owner at a time and in a manner that promotes as seamless of a transition as possible and in a manner that minimizes expense;
• List and copies of all bonds and insurance policies related to the project, if any;
• Complete set of permitted drawings and specifications marked currently to indicate field changes and selections made during construction, all shop drawings, product data, samples and similar submittals, and other documents that will facilitate completion of the work by a replacement contractor;
• Instruction manuals and warranty documentation compliant with the Contract, including all subcontractor, supplier, and manufacturer warranties, and documentation satisfactory to Owner that all warranties are, and will remain, in full force and effect;
• Unconditional final waivers and releases from Rokop and from any lienors under Rokop giving notice or any lienor otherwise entitled to file a lien;
• A letter from “Builder” to the applicable municipality(ies) in form and substance as the such local municipality(ies) may require to facilitate replacement of “builder” as the contractor of record; and
• Upon receipt of notice from the Lender under 713.3471(2), a written statement, signed under oath by “Builder” confirming that “Builder” has received such written notice.
• Such other provisions and documents as Owner determines necessary after receipt and review of the above-requested documentation from “Builder”.

This is only a portion of the termination letter to our builder. I’ve replaced the specific name of our builder with “builder” in quotes.

To date, his reaction has been very cooperative. We will definitely have issues with his final payment request as he is trying to charge us for correction of all of his errors plus 18% as this is a cost-plus contract. Our position is that this is a cost-plus contract but it is not an errors-plus contract. The difference in actual dollars is somewhere around $20K.

Well, we discussed the whole ”cost plus” vs vs. ”cost to fix errors plus” issue way back at the very beginning of this dilemma. I would have been very surprised if your former builder didn’t try to recoup as least part of that money from you. Whether you will have to pay him will depend upon whether the repairs/remediation was required to comply with laws/codes/regulations/etc.

I hope everything is straightened out quickly. What is the time frame for completion as calculated by your new builder?

Hi dmac… Last Thursday we received a lien notice from our former builder for $38K. We estimate that approximately $20K of the bill from our former builder is actual cost plus and the rest is errors and profit on the errors. We had a 30 minute telecon with our construction lawyer on Friday to discuss next steps. She knows the attorney for our builder and is scheduling a 1 hour telecon next week. We’ve provided her with a significant amount of detail associated with the errors and she will try to negotiate to come to a settlement. Alternatively, we can bond off the lien from the former builder and move forward with the new builder. Our current estimate is we will be able to resume construction with the new builder in mid-July and complete the project in Q1-2022.

Hi Sam, are you allowed to disclose who your former builder was?

Unfortunately, I can not disclose. He is a very small builder.

Sam: Were you able to resume in mid-July? Will you be finished as planned?

Hi Joe - Our new builder was able to start a few clean up tasks related to preparing the framing for drywall. Unfortunately, the Credit Union wouldn’t give us authorization to proceed in ernest with the major next steps until the new builder received full approval. We terminated our former builder on May 26 and we are now scheduled to close on a refinanced construction loan (~30% more funds to finish the build) tomorrow (10/29). So basically a 5 month delay with a completion date estimated in Q2-2022. We still believe that we made the right decision even with the schedule delay and potential cost growth. Our final cost with the former builder was extremely volatile.

The good news is that home values here in Tampa, FL have increased dramatically and our new appraisal was approximately 40% higher than the appraisal we had done in 2019.

Sam, I'm constantly in Florida, they building a few homes near me in the price ranging from 12-25m give or take...

Every time I'm down there I walk past them all the time and nothing is moving very little progress in the last 2 years, so if I walk on the street no progress at all, if I walk on the beach in the back of the property you see a few guys on scaffolds doing god knows what. you see some HVAC ducts up, some plastering on the back done and that's it... Some homes have windows in, etc and it's been like this the last few years.

Being directly on the ocean we had to replace some windows and sliding doors, it took 1 year to do that from permit to completion, the stickers have to be up for inspection, it's been a month since it was completed and the inspector didn't come out there yet.

I guess this is how it is down there, they work the same way they drive...nice and slow and not a worry in the world.

I hope things for you move a little faster.

Good luck

GN - we are looking at $1.4M by the time we are done. What attracted us to our new builder was seeing a complex custom home build he performed around the corner from our build. It was impressive how quickly he was able to execute. He thinks ahead and has the planning and skills to execute the job. We knew we were in trouble with our former builder when we started talking to a few of his subs.

Sam, we are also about to start building a new house in Tampa and have a few GCs on our short list. Which GC did you decide to go with going forward?

New builder is Bay Harbour Homes. Good luck with your build!

HU… one red flag which we were uncomfortable with but dismissed with our former builder was the lack of a physical storefront address for the business. They had a PO Box at a local UPS store and all of our face-to-face meetings were either on site at our build or at a local coffee shop. We thought that it was a way that they saved money by not having a physical address to conduct business but that also meant that they didn’t really have the staff to conduct reliable execution of multiple clients in parallel.

@Sam Biller - I havent been on Houzz as much the past few months - haven’t been feeling well at all.

What happened with your lien situation from your former builder???!!?!

@dmac1108 - Sorry to hear you aren’t feeling well. Hope you are on the path to recovery! Regarding our former builder, the legal fees were really adding up fighting the lien so we finally decided to settle with him for a number that we weren’t happy with. We are completely settled and now up and running with our new builder. We expect to be completed with the project sometime in approximately 8-10 months.

Smart to settle. Were I him, I'd be delighted to hear you weren't happy.