Rototilling would be overkill for a lawn. A better idea might be to rent an aerator. Home Depot rents one for $63 for 4 hrs. It' is self propelled. If you use this method you need to know when you make a turn the aerator tends to tear up the yard.

Another suggestion might be to buy a fork and do it by hand. I wouldn't make this suggestion except that if you wan to clean out that yard there;s no better way of finding items like bricks, stones, hunks of concrete than trying to push a fork thru them. If you have these items a inch or two down the grass won't grow well on top of them.

Since you live in PA I'd suggest you find a local seed supply or garden center that sells grass seeds loose. Has a big container and a scoop to fill plastic bags. They will sell a mixture called Penn State mix. Never buy grass seed from a big box store. They sell the same bags all over the world. The problem is that most of the seed in it will be grass that is weeds in your climate.

And also in PA you won't have a problem finding mushroom compost. After you've spread the seed; cover it with an inch of MC. A 20x40' yard would need 2 1/2 cu yards. They won't sell a half yard so the extra could go into flower beds. Don't buy in bags. I pay around $39 a yard and $35 for delivery.

I think you could plant earlier. I'm in PA and zone 6a and would plant grass seed in mid March. The reason to do this is so that you get the grass seed germinated and then you can apply a pre-emergent which will prevent weed seeds like crab grass from germinating. If you don't get the grass in early the weed seeds will have germanated before you can apply the pre-emergent

Morpheuspa is nearby your area, so he'll have a lot to say. If it were my yard and I had no reason to make it perfect for summer, the very best thing you could do for the area is cover it with several inches of chipped tree mulch until early August. Just let it sit. You don't have to water or fertilize, although organic fertilizer like soybean meal would never harm anything. Then in August you can pull away the mulch to see what you have. It will NOT be compacted any longer, because the beneficial microbes in the soil will have been working away and making it the perfect soil. August is the perfect time to seed new grass for your area, so that's the main reason for waiting.

If you really can't wait to have grass there, let us know and we can help you make that happen, but spring is not the best time to sow grass seed.

Also, DO NOT ROTOTILL ANYTHING. The result is not what you think it is. Morph will say more and I can fill in where he may get lazy and leave something out ;-)

^^That.

No, seriously, that cover it. Come August, it's time to think about lawns. Just as summer fades, around August 15, you seed the lawn. If you sod, April's fine. But for seed, August.

And never, never rototill. It's just...look up any response I have on it. Some people disagree just to be disagreeable, but if you want to experiment, try it in a couple square feet. See what the ground looks like after a couple-three months. Imagine mowing that for years.

If you sow seeds in March and cover with mushroom compost you'll have a beautiful lawn for 5 months by August and you'll get the same beneficial microbe activity. If you put 3 inches of wood chips you'll have a thick mulch that will prevent anything from sprouting there for years. If you had built a new home the builder would take advantage of the wonderful opportunity of growing a new lawn in the spring.

By the way if you use the mushroom manure you should NOT fertilize the rest of the year and in following years you should use less than the recommended amount. I'm trying to prevent you from mowing 2 or 3 times a week.

John D apparently missed the part about pulling the mulch away in August to do the seeding. Otherwise he's close. If you seed in March you will get plenty of grass. Here's how grasses germinate. The fastest grasses to germinate in spring are crabgrass and rye. Crabgrass needs only 3 days of moisture to pop while rye needs 5. Then fescue needs about 2 weeks and Kentucky bluegrass needs 3 to 4 weeks. So, for example, if you put down Kentucky bluegrass in March, by the time it starts germinating in April, you will have crabgrass growing for 2.5 weeks. Furthermore, the new KBG grass will not have had time by June to develop sufficient roots to withstand the summer heat. By July you'll have nearly full lawn of crabgrass. Having said that, what John D said was fairly accurate about getting the beneficial microbe activity from grass roots. You can do that if you want to have real grass this summer, but I would not buy premium grass seed if it is likely to die in 3 months. Buy a cheap blend of rye, fescue, and KBG now and spend more to reseed in August.

Mushroom compost is just compost. Seven hundred pounds of compost provides the same fertilizer value as 15 pounds of organic fertilizer. Again, you can do what you want, but I stopped using compost 10 years ago when I realized I was breaking my back. Oh, and in my neighborhood it costs $75 to have 700 pounds of compost delivered, and it covers 1,000 square feet. Organic fertilizer costs more like $5 for 1,000 square feet. Even if I pick up compost in my truck it costs $35.

I'll tend to agree with DCHall here. Mushroom compost isn't magic. It's actually spent compost that's already grown mushrooms; there's not much to it and I wouldn't cut back fertilization at all.

Of course, I don't fertilize synthetically myself but once a year, but that's another story.

As far as spring seedings....well, no. Barring a ton of coddling, they don't tend to survive summers unless they're very cool and very wet. Those don't happen often. Although rye and fescue are more likely to survive it than KBG, any good tri mix will include all three...and of those, the KBG will be the one with self-repairing ability.

Here's the part I missed. (???)

"So, we thought to rototill, maybe bring in some fresh soil, and sow grass seed. Maybe in April?"

From my experience in PA zone 6a; if you get a pre-emergent applied by the 2nd or 3rd week of April then it will be effective. It's a well known race when planting grass to get your grass seed sown so that you can get the pre-emergent down in time. I'm assuming that OP may be in zone 5 and the timing may be a little later.

To me grass is similar to planting lettuce. Plant as soon as the ground can be worked. Freezing temperatures won't hurt the seed. And once germinated the grass won't freeze. I once sowed Penn State Mix in mid December in PA and it germinated just before Christmas.

Seems to me that the most important fact discussed here is the knowledge about the race. Once you know there is a race you have enough knowledge to check locally and get the specifics for your area.

Lettuce is a fast-developing annual vegetable that bolts as soon as it gets too warm, seeds out, and dies. Grass is a perennial (or at least the types we're discussing are) that requires months to properly set root to correctly survive the summer, which can be pretty durned brutal even in Zone 5 for cool-season grasses, which aren't exactly the heat-tolerant champs of plants.

If we add the games of trying to time pre-emergents to the mix (one shouldn't with a first-year, spring-sown lawn, but that's another story), this dance becomes even more complicated. The only one that can be used safely is Mesotrione (Tenacity), with thirty day coverage, until at least the fourth mow.

Can it work? Yes. Are the success probabilities that great? No. And that lawn has to be babied an awful lot.

"Can it work? Yes. Are the success probabilities that great? No."

That's why I called it a race. The way to win the race is to get the lawn sowed as early as one can. March not April. In my case I wouldn't enter the race as I don't have a crab grass problem here. And we seldom get up to 90° here, some years not at all, so I've never heard of anyone with a first year lawn problem.

I'm simply going to advise against playing racing games against nature once again and doing this at the proper time in the proper season. We can't speak definitively about weather specifics without a town, which we don't have, and that last statement...is worrisome.

It;s apparent to me that the argument between growing seasons is ignoring the benefits of spreading an inch of mushroom compost over the sown seeds. Or the other option; sprinkling a few handfuls of fertilizer out of a bag. One improves the soil, the other does more harm than good for the soil.

Cassie - If you spread the mushroom compost you'll see the benefits for many years. That compost will retain water, keep the seed moist. You;ll need to water, if it rains today don't water, If it doesn't rain and you don't water that day the grass will be fine. If still no rain the next day give it a watering, don't over do it. In the summer you'll need to water; you'll be proud to water the beautiful lawn that you yourself grew.

After the grass sprouts and begins growing you'll see weeds and weedy grasses sprout. The weeds will be obvious, the weedy grasses like quack grass will be a different color. Pull those out. They'll pull out easily. Don't pull out old weeds, you'll tear up the soil getting the weeds out.

They used to recommend 3 pounds of grass seed per thousand square feet. You have 800. Today they recommend 4 pounds per thousand sq ft. I've always recommended a higher amount. I'd suggest 6 pounds. I like to scoop my seed out of the container and put it in an oversize bag. The bag they provide for 10 pound buyers. I spread the seed by hand watching the spread on the ground. You'll be able to see the rye seed The most important thing is to get an even spread, don't miss spots. Grab a big hand full and fling it. Don't get any in flower beds, I lean way over and drop it along the edges. Watch the wind.

After it sprouts you can over seed any spots that are uneven. When it first starts sprouting that'll only be the rye grass your looking at. It'll get thicker when the other two varieties also sprout. But if you see bare spots; just throw a little more seed on those spots. Don't rake it, and the birds won't eat it. You could do that all summer; but I don;t think you'll need it.

When the grass needs mowing; mow it. Don't let it be a problem getting the clippings out of the lawn, Wait two months to use a weed killer. You'll need it.

I'm not going to argue on this thread further. If you need help PM me.

"It;s apparent to me that the argument between growing seasons is ignoring the benefits of spreading an inch of mushroom compost over the sown seeds."

Whereas personally, I would never advise this. A quarter inch, absolutely. An inch and the seed has trouble struggling through it. Grass seed should never be buried deeper than a quarter of an inch.

Compost is spent. It contains no resources or nutrients of note, and adds no fertilization to the soil other than a very slow tap of minor nitrogen. I'm not knocking the stuff. What it does add is organic matter. That's great, but I can get the same by feeding the lawn organically, allowing it to decay, and getting the benefit of the feeding as well as the eventual organic matter.

"Morph and I both have tried to overdose our lawns with organic fertilizer, and it is really hard to do. If you get up to one or two hundred pounds per thousand, all at one time, you are going to smother the underlying grass. That's when you start damage a lawn. I've seen lawns smothered with 1/2 inch of compost."

Mostly what he said, but I had a year where I dumped 1,300 pounds of organic fertilizer per thousand square feet. It was back-breaking. I actually did have applications of well over 100 pounds per thousand at a time, it's barely noticeable as cracked corn.

One inch of compost is massive.

"John's approach, which he called a race, requires precision timing of seed and herbicide, which makes it a huge hassle."

What he said, which is better than the way I said it. Temperatures are not going to be particularly stable in April.

They aren't in August and September either, but the window is a heck of a lot wider. A week doesn't matter very much there, whereas in April it's critical for you.

And to repeat, the grass doesn't develop full roots by July Fourth and summer. So if you do this, prepare to water a lot the first summer or watch it die. That's always the warning here with spring seeding and why I don't recommend them. Even first-year lawns have to be babied a bit when seeded from the fall before.

dchall - From my experience grass seed will sprout under 2 inches of mushroom compost. The only time it doesn't is if you have a 3 inch or so clod. But if you break up that clod after the lawn has sprouted the spot under it will germinate.

I believe it's very common here to spot seed with mushroom compost. I have done an entire acre and half lawn using 1 spade of sand and 4 spades of mushroom compost mixed and then spread an inch thick. That mix is a pleasure to spread. The sand apparently loosens up the mushroom compost keeping it from wanting to clump. I had a good case of blisters after that.

Most folks here don't have crab grass so getting involved with "the race" is not so important unless you want to 'kill" every possible weed seed in the turf. As you know it's much easier to kill the weeds later than do it with pre-emergent.

Most folks here, with nice lawns. water very frequently all season. In fact most of those folks also have a sprinkler system that comes on every day. So it seems to indicate to me that it wouldn't be at all unusual for someone who spread 3 yards of mushroom compost after forking their back yard and hand sowed the seed to have the interest to hose their lawn those days that it hasn't rained. Myself I only water during droughts and use a mixture of weeds and bent grass to keep my lawn green all summer. The bees and grass roots love the clover, the deer and rabbits love the dandelions. The turkeys love the dandelion puff balls, but lately turkeys have been rare here.

From OP's description of their back yard that soil needs more work than scattering some fertilizer or "16 pounds of soybean meal". It needs some serious organic matter mixed into the soil. I doubt there's any organic matter in the soil under the concrete walk that was removed. I'm counting on the mushroom compost seeping into the aerated soil to partially accomplish that. I'm also enlisting the aid of worms to loosen and improve the soil some more. If this were my back yard and I wanted a lush lawn I would repeat the inch of mushroom compost in about 3 years. If you spread the MC just as the lawn starts rapid growth in the spring the MC will disappear in a week or two.

You can test all this in a cracked seed starting tray or two. Cover one trays seed with an inch of MC and the other with 2 inches.

I meant to add this thought. You have a field where grass seed falls naturally to the ground. On most of the field the seed is uncovered. There are spots with horse, cow and deer sign. Which spots will grow the best. Hopefully the horse rollers will get scattered a bit!

Wow, thank you so much for these comments. There is so much expertise here it’s a little mine boggling. I read through everything but I need to read through them again and talk with my husband. It would be nice to have a green yard this summer but I forgot to mention we’re also planning a 2 to 3 week road trip in July out west. Right during the time when a lawn would need the most care in terms of watering.

We live in Scranton so our summers actually don’t get very warm although this last summer was an anomaly. Very hot and very dry. Again, that’s not typical.

Thanks again. I’ll be pouring over all this again in the coming days and let you know if I have any more questions.

(Waves) Allentown, near enough, here (I'm actually further east, outside Bethlehem, off in the boonies).

"but I forgot to mention we’re also planning a 2 to 3 week road trip in July out west."

Yes, I'd take that into consideration. A very young lawn isn't going to thank you for letting it go dry for two to three weeks in July. If you have an irrigation system, you can probably automate that if it's reasonably reliable.

Cassie - I'd check with a neighbor or a family member/friend about "water sitting".

John, that's a good idea. But make sure the water sitter follows explicit instructions. I had a friend water sit 30 orchid plants. I had to move from Dayton in December, so I was going to come get them when the weather warmed up. She killed them all in 3 months, by not following my directions. For a new lawn that time of year, I would be watering more frequently than for a mature lawn, but probably not every day.

"probably not every day."

Quite. Daily watering is for the first thirty days. Daily watering an established lawn is courting a fungal infection in July.

I've gotten a lot of input on grass seed, timing, fertilizing, etc. but what I need to know now, and part of why I thought to rototill, is how to even out my yard. In addition to being compacted in spots, It is really uneven. @John D Zn6a PIT Pa would the aerator or using a fork by hand (hoping there are some youtube vids on this) be advisable for this? Or @dchall_san_antonio @User would the wood chips method accomplish this? Thanks for all your help! (Also the so-called arguing has been respectful, in my opinion, and almost enjoyable compared to other on-line arguing!)

It has been an enjoyable discussion. Where we live in NH, if you rototill, the first thing you get is a crop of pigweed. Tall skinny stems with big wide leaves on top that block the sun from the emerging grass. Must mow it - over the emerging grass - quickly and sometimes more than once - or nothing else can grow. If there is any way to avoid it, we will never till a pasture again. Will look into renting Home Depot aerator for some smaller areas - thanks for the tip!

Do not rototill. If you use a fork to loosen the soil you could get some evening out. When you push the fork in the ground you would want to pull back slightly on the top of the fork. If you watch the ground at the fork you will see the ground lifting. So if you're in a low spot and pull back farther you could lift those spots. That also works somewhat on ruts.

If you use an aerator whether it's pulled by your lawn tractor or self propelled as you come to a low spot the aerators will just penetrate less into the ground unless the low spot is larger than the width of the aerator. But it will always dig no farther than the length of the penetrators.

If you use an aerator you could combine methods by using the fork in the low spots.

I wouldn't recommend using wood chips to grow grass. They're usually used as a mulch to prevent weeds from growing. I have seen peat used to cover grass seed but one problem with peat as it tends to float away when it rains. Since I have no experience with wood chips I don't know if they also float.

shivice, turning up weed seeds is bad but not the worst part about rototilling. When you use a hand held tiller there is no way to get a 'level' bottom to the fluffy soil. The tiller digs in deep on softer soil and bounces up out of the ground when it hits a hard spot or rock or root or pipe. What you end up with is an uneven subsurface with lots of fluffy soil on top. Then you come over the top with something to level the top. That gives you varying amounts of fluffy soil from the level top down to the rolling subsurface. When the fluffy soil settles, it settles to match the rolling subsurface which leaves the top bumpy. It will start bumpy right away and get worse for the next three years. There is nothing less fun than mowing a bumpy lawn.