pretty benign at 4-6-7 ... regardless ..

if i used it.. it would be at half or quarter strength ...

im presuming your plants are potted??

do you consider those plants as 'flowering'?

how about a pic of the label .. or a link

ken

The label's in Hebrew so not much use posting a pic, did my best translating it :-) If any additional info from the label is needed I'll provide it.

Yep, the plants are indeed potted, and they by no means are "flowering" :-) Just wanted to know if I could use this fert (which was used by my dad for... flowering plants, but also for "regular" plants e.g Pothos and worked pretty well), or get another, all purpose/"balanced" (?) one. What do you mean by half/quarter strength? half of what the instructions say?

Yes, half of what the label says. Can you contact that local company?

tj

I did see one thread on here about fertilizer (which...well, it actually kind of devolved into a bit of a battle) where people were pretty insistent about using only a certain ratio against somebody else who was much looser about all of it. I think the ratio was 4-1-2 or something like that.

I mean, I wouldn't throw it out or anything, I'd still use the stuff. The thread just seemed like a mess of pointless crap to me.

my usual default is ... i can always add more ... but i cant take out too much ...

so go with 1/4 the recommended strength ...

ken

If your dad was using it for plants like pothos, and they looked good, then I would ask him how he mixed it and how often he applied it. The wisdom of dad!

The NPK numbers tell you what the %s (by weight) of N (nitrogen), P2O5 (Phosphorous Pentoxide), K2O (Potassium Oxide) are. The relationship these numbers have to each other, the fertilizer's RATIO, isn't reported on the container, but are the most important numbers when considering what fertilizer product to purchase.

Most houseplants will do best when the grower uses fertilizers with a 3:1:2 ratio. NPK %s of some of the most popular fertilizers with 3:1:2 RATIOs are 24-8-16, 12-4-8, and 9-3-6. The average plant uses about 6X as much nitrogen as phosphorous, and about 3/5 as much potassium as nitrogen. The reason 3:1:2 fertilizers are popular with not only hobby growers but with professional growers is, they provide N, P and K in the ratio at which the average plant actually uses the nutrients. This means it's easier to keep as low of a fertility level as possible w/o inducing a nutritional deficiency. When fertility levels in the soil solution are low, water moves into cells more freely. Unnecessarily high levels of fertility limits passage of water (and nutrients dissolved in it) through cell walls.

The NPK 4-6-7 fertilizer mentioned above and used as an example here, supplies about 3.9X as much P as the plant can/will use, and about 2.4X more K than the plant can/will use. The excess amounts of P and K have only the potential to limit.

When using fertilizers which provide nutrients in a ratio that doesn't closely match the ratio at which the plant uses them, there is also significant risk of the ratio of nutrients in the soil solution becoming so unbalanced after several applications of fertilizer solution that nutrient deficiencies can begin to appear, even when there is an ample supply of the deficient nutrient in the soil. These deficiencies are called antagonistic deficiencies. For instance, the excess of P in the example we used here will eventually cause the plant difficulty taking up enough of several nutrients, Fe (iron) being the main concern, but it also limits uptake of copper, calcium, potassium, and zinc. When using fertilizers with ratios that aren't coincidental with the ratio actually used by the plant and expecting a high vitality level, flushing the soil thoroughly and regularly (think "hitting the fertility level reset button"), becomes an essential part of the care regimen.

Al

Thanks Al & everyone! Ended up buying a new fertilizer intended for houseplants (9-4-5, this one). Should I still use half the strength? (label says 7ml fertilizer for 2L of water)

stated above::

my usual default is ... i can always add more ... but i cant take out too much ...

so go with 1/4 the recommended strength ...

ken

Thank you, will do!

@Yu Yu - that was an excellent choice and the fertilizer will serve your plants much better than the other. Strong work.

Al

Is 9-4-5 good enough if the recommended ratio is 3-1-2? The ratio there is closer to 2-1-1 so it sounds like you'll get a lot more of the second and third fertilizer than you need, and less nitrogen.

I thought phosphorus didn't flush so easily?

Also, I don't feel that 9:4:5 really does compare favorably to 3:1:1. That 4 is almost half the 9. The 5 is more than half the 1. So if this is an important ratio, it's important. If it's not, then should we just let it go?

Basically, when looking for a food, do I look for that ratio or just ignore it as unimportant? We're supposed to flush plants every now and again anyway. If it's critical, I can find it. If it's not, I'd just find the cheapest is what I'm saying here. How important it is would depend on how much effort and expense I'd put to it.

I see that Miracle Gro is 24-8-16, which works if you really dilute it (I do anyway and don't feed much), so thats eems to be just fine.

"Watering in dribs/drabs w/o flushing the grow medium ensures that all solids/salts dissolved in tapwater and fertilizer remain in the soil and continue to accumulate, while also robbing the roots of oxygen necessary for roots to function normally."

Also, I don't understand that. So soil that's only partly watered and partly dry doesn't have oxygen in it, but really wet soils can? Salt shouldn't displace air if I understand the problem correctly unless you've got a real problem with it...in which case there's probably so much the plant's long dead anyway.

"I don't feel that 9:4:5 really does compare favorably to 3:1:1. That 4 is almost half the 9. The 5 is more than half the 1. So if this is an important ratio, it's important. If it's not, then should we just let it go?" How we feel really don't enter into the math or chemistry, and you can always do what you wish - no problem.No one will judge you if you do what you feel you need to. I offer an opinion and support it; you consider and decide if it's worth listening to.I explained why 9-4-5 is a reasonable stand-in for other fertilizers that provide nutrients in a 3:1:2 ratio, not 3:1:1 ratios (as you mentioned) like the 30-10-10 commonly used for evergreens/azalea. The RATIO of 9-4-5 is 3: 1.3: 1.7, soo much closer than the ratio of the original 4-6-7 fertilizer asked about, which is 3: 4.5: 5.3 (converted for easy comparison). Which is closer to 3:1:2?

"Basically, when looking for a food, do I look for that ratio or just ignore it as unimportant? We're supposed to flush plants every now and again anyway. If it's critical, I can find it. If it's not, I'd just find the cheapest is what I'm saying here. How important it is would depend on how much effort and expense I'd put to it." Note: NPK % are separated by a dash, ratios are separated by colons (:). You missed the part where I mentioned you won't find the RATIO on the pkging, only the NPK %s. The RATIO is the more important factor. You'll just need to do the calculations in your head. 24-8-16 is easy because you divide all the numbers by 8 to come up with a 3:1:2 ratio. To compare the RATIO of 4-6-7 to to 3:1:2 multiply the 4 by .75, which = 3. Then. multiply the P & K %s by the same factor (.75) to come up with the rest of the ratio 3: 4.5: 5.3.

The best 3:1:2 ratio fertilizer you're likely to find is Foliage-Pro 9-3-6, if that helps. Whether or not it's critical depends on what standard you set for yourself, but it IS much better than using a fertilizer with a less appropriate ratio. There are several other very good reasons to use Foliage-Pro 9-3-6, too. Ask if you still have interest. Oh - plants make their own food, sugar/carbohydrate, during photosynthesis. Fertilizer provides the building blocks plants need to grow and keep their systems orderly.

"Watering in dribs/drabs w/o flushing the grow medium ensures that all solids/salts dissolved in tapwater and fertilizer remain in the soil and continue to accumulate, while also robbing the roots of oxygen necessary for roots to function normally."

Also, I don't understand that. So soil that's only partly watered and partly dry doesn't have oxygen in it, but really wet soils can? Salt shouldn't displace air if I understand the problem correctly unless you've got a real problem with it...in which case there's probably so much the plant's long dead anyway. I had rearranged that paragraph w/o proof-reading and you caught the error. It should have read something like:

The biggest salt build-up problems occur when growers habitually water in small sips because they have learned the hard way that the grow medium they are using remains soggy for extended periods after a thorough watering, robbing the roots of oxygen necessary for roots to function normally. Watering in dribs/drabs w/o flushing the grow medium ensures that all solids/salts dissolved in tapwater and fertilizer remain in the soil and continue to accumulate. I sincerely apologize for not proof-reading more carefully. My bad.

Al

"How we feel really don't enter into the math or chemistry, and you can always do what you wish - no problem"

In that case, I was trying to be kind. :-) Mathematically speaking, 9-4-5 isn't even close, but I didn't want to sound harsh. It's closer than the original, but still not optimal. But again, Al, thank you for the lecture on my "feelings," as you called them. You're correct, they don't matter, but the question as to whether using an inappropriate ratio and whether that can be flushed still remains and that does matter. And 9-4-5 definitely isn't the correct ratio, which was the initial question, along with how well it can be washed out.

"Note: NPK % are separated by a dash, ratios are separated by colons (:). You missed the part where I mentioned you won't find the RATIO on the pkging, only the NPK %s. The RATIO is the more important factor."

Yes, that was a mistake and once again, thank you for pointing it out. I do know how to take a ratio.

If Miracle Gro's the correct ratio, what's wrong with it? Foliagegro seems kind of expensive for what it is, which is the same as Miraglegro. Just not blue.

I don't usually have a problem with my pots staying too wet, I have to water most things pretty often. So I imagine it's like a bellows. Don't worry about the salt build-up thing.

"Watering in dribs/drabs w/o flushing the grow medium ensures that all solids/salts dissolved in tapwater and fertilizer remain in the soil and continue to accumulate."

So drip/drab would be fine (I have some where I do in winter) if I rinse out now and again, which I do. Often in the bathroom...

However, the question still remains--doesn't phosphorus sit around and not wash out? In which case, overfeeding with it isn't a good idea? Looking, potassium doesn't look like it washes out too easily either, so that will hang as well and not wash easily if I'm reading this leaching stuff correctly.

If extended or in-depth questions are not welcome here--and I'm getting the feeling they aren't--or you'd simply prefer I not ask them, simply please let me know.

Sorry about wandering off in another direction, Yu Yu. If you have any other questions you think we might be able to help with, you need only ask. Good luck to you ..... and don't be concerned about your choice - it was a good one.

Al

All is good, (all of) you have been of great help! :-)

I'll take that as "in-depth questions are not welcome here" until otherwise indicated. :-)