My uppers were made by a local cabinet-maker, and he gave me a pretty detailed quote. Technically, I suppose it was a bid, so it had to be detailed. He came over and measured, and it was free. Our lowers were sourced by our truly independent designer. She did the measurements, and they gave a detailed quote for free. Maybe it's a regional thing?

Most cabinetmakers in our area require a design deposit before producing any designs or quotations. Ditto for professional builders and remodelers. This weeds out the tire kickers, the DIYers looking for pointers and neat ideas, and the folks looking to exploit the knowledge of professional designers before hiring HD or Lowes to do the work.

The remodeling industry has a history of "free" estimates, but they've never been free to produce. With demand for services at an all-time high, not many service providers are willing to put "free" work ahead of paying customers.

If you'd like to get an idea of what your remodel is likely to cost, I find the cost data in Remodeling Magazine's annual Cost Vs. Value Report to be a helpful resource: https://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2021/

I first went to a cabinet company to test the waters. Realizing then they don’t do everything and don’t even seem like they know what they’re doing at all, I started researching GC’s and asking around, neighbors and friends. My MIL gave me a contact so we interviewed him but didn’t feel like a good fit. Then I started stalking GC’s on Instagram (hashtags #yourcitydesign or #yourcitycontractor etc.) and spent a good month googling and reviewing and decided to call another GC to interview. Turns out he has all his own in house guys (no subs) and that was a big PLUS in our books. So we gave him a shot and did a small part of our renovation first (kitchen and floors). He did such an amazing job we had him come back and finish the whole house. Many of our friends have used him since. What I’m saying is, interview and ask around for recommendations, but also research research research. If something doesn’t feel right or feels shady trust your gut. But always do the research before hiring them! And always review the contract.

Or hire a kitchen designer to do all the leg work so you don’t have to. I didn’t have to because my GC had an in-house KD.

@Charles Ross Homes. Thank you for your response! We already have done renovation in other rooms about 10 years ago including master bath, and no contractor charged just for an estimate at that time. As I said, we are not even looking for something drastically different and would like to keep the same layout. We also understand the price can very based on type of wood, cabinets types, doors design and finish, etc. but I do not think it should prevent dealers from giving base price for specific cabinet line based on dimensions and some questions they might ask to understand the variances in price. From my experience with previous work which was done in other rooms cost can vary a lot from one contractor to another. For example, to paint all rooms in my house I got 4 estimates and cheapest was $7.5 K whereas most expansive was $12K for the same type and amount of work. Are you suggesting consumers should pay $3K-$4K just to get estimate from 3/4 cabinet dealers; so that we can select which manufacturer/dealer to go with?

As for those websites and magazines, I've seen them wrong most of the time. The reason I think is because those magazines collect data from large GC companies and do not consider small contractors with only few people in the team. Larger companies obviously have a lot of overhead, therefore their prices are inflated to cover for those expanses. Try to go and fix your car at the dealer vs. small shop -- the difference in price might be as much as x2 or x3 times more.

@K R: Thanks a lot for your feedback! Did you get estimate from your GC for the cost of cabinets alone before you gave any down payment? Did your GC work with certain cabinet dealer/manufacturer? I am just trying to understand how coming to the dealer with my measurements is different from GC coming to the same dealer with his/GC measurements.. I would assume to get base price only for cabinets, the process is still going to be very similar just with that GC serving as the middle man (GC); unless GC already works with certain cabinet maker and has the software to provide ready-to-go design to the cabinet manufacturer with exact cabinet sizes, types of those cabinets, etc.

@Zinoviy Margovskiy,

I don't think your experience from ten years ago is relevant in the current environment, at least not in most U.S. markets. Demand for building and remodeling services is at an all-time high. If you're not willing to pay a design deposit, you are communicating that you're not a serious prospect.

If I were starting out to remodel now (I completed my kitchen in 2013), I would start by doing what I ended up doing. I had started much as you have, talking to several firms, but found that it wasn't always an apples-to-apples comparison and I wasn't clear on what I was asking them for.

Since you aren't wanting to change your kitchen's footprint, or even the layout (but I would strongly recommend that you post your current plan here and ask for ideas of improvement), it is simpler than what most are taking on. But still you should do a lot of homework before approaching contractors/cabinetmakers.

I would never pay to have them come measure first, and then start looking at cabinets and features afterwards.

First, start by making a detailed list of what you want done and who you want to do it. Identify:

If you want the shop to handle everything, or do you want to be responsible for buying some materials for them to install, or arranging for installation or even doing some work yourself (painting, maybe).

Relocation of any major features - like moving the stove or sink.

What style, sizes, and how many cabinets you want. Frameless or framed?( I recommend frameless). For example, a 30 sink cabinet, a 35" 3 drawer base cabinet, a 24" deep, 32" wide over the refrigerator wall cabinet....and so on. Your measurements (if taken carefully and precisely - use a metal tape measure and don't let it droop) are adequate for this planning on your part. Yes, anyone that you hire will still want to take their own measures, but you will be starting with the same plan for every bid.

There are many sellers of cabinets on the internet, & some offer planning tools. With your plan in front of you, you can start to get an idea of pricing for what you want. Search threads here in the Kitchen Forum for recommended sellers. Some that come to mind are Barker, Conestoga, Scherr's - there are others that I can't think of right now. Kraftmaid has a website with information, and you can get quotes on cabinets.

Here is a thread I found useful: Cabinets- low to high, oh my (gardenweb.com)

What pulls and hardware for the cabinets. Start shopping - look at sites like Ikea to get ideas of what interior fixture you want - many can be purchased from the internet or big box store and installed later, such as trash pullouts, some need to be incorporated in the cabinet design and so are part of the bid.

Flooring - again, start shopping around. See what is out there and decide what you want. Take a peek under your existing floor if you can - are there multiple layers that need to be removed? Are you content to lay new vinyl on top of existing flooring (which might mean cutting doors and door frame trim?) What about the trim - reuse existing, or all new?

What and where will the lighting be. How many ceiling fixtures, & what kind. Do you need new locations, new locations or types of switches. Do you need new locations for, or additional electrical outlets. Do you have the correct connections (gas, electric) for your stove, if getting a new one. How about the switch for the garbage disposal.

Exactly what changes in plumbing - water lines and drains - will be needed - for dishwasher, sink, garbage disposal, ice maker in fridge?

Will you need old finishes/wallpaper/tile on the walls removed and finish repaired?

Choose your counter material, faucet, and sink (Size, drain location, depth, material, faucet type, soap dispenser or not).

Painting? choose your colors after the flooring and counter. Who will prep and paint?

Sorry to write a book, but I do think that If you do the legwork of shopping and deciding (as much as possible) exactly what you want/need done, and also going in with a firm idea of how much you can afford, makes the quoting part much easier for all involved.

Selecting a kitchen designer

Remodeling a kitchen? What can you expect?

If you are remodeling a kitchen, and you are using custom cabinetry, expect to leave a deposit with your design firm. There are two popular formats followed by most companies. They are 50/40/10 and 40/50/10. What does that mean to you? It means that you will be expected to leave a 50% deposit when ordering, 40% payment when the cabinetry is delivered and 10% on completion or substantial completion. The term substantial completion is something you should understand. Many companies will expect the final payment on substantial completion. This means that the project is substantially complete, possibly missing a knob or a piece of molding. It is unfair to hold back thousands of dollars for a small item. However, if the company is not reliable, this payment system can cause undue heartache for the consumer. Since the company has received virtually all of its funds, there is no monetary incentive for them to return. This is why it is important for you to make sure you are dealing with a company with a good reputation.

How can you determine if the company has a good reputation?

The first place to look is their relationship with NKBA (National Kitchen and Bath Association). Members are supposed to keep to the standards of the NKBA. Secondly, look at your local BBB for advice. Most importantly, talk to your friends. If you know of someone who has had a kitchen remodel, ask them about their experience. Lastly, use your "gut" feelings! If you feel uncomfortable at all during the initial presentation, do not go forward.

What should you expect before you make a buying decision?

You should expect to see a designer's portfolio. The portfolio should have before and after pictures, floor plans, letters from past clients. If the designer does not have a portfolio, we suggest you move on. Your designer should be able to give you a clear vision of what he or she can do for you as well as a price range for the project. Giving the designer a budget is the best way for you to lead your designer toward the best products and design for you.

What you should NOT expect before making a buying decision.

You should not expect to receive drawings. Sadly, the kitchen industry has lagged many of the professional industries such as architects. You would never expect an architect to produce drawings prior to engaging him or her in the form of payment. If your designer is a good designer, he or she should not be expected to work for free.

What do you need to know in order to make a buying decision?

Interestingly enough, making a buying decision is easy if you have the answers to all the questions required to make that decision. Often, designers fail to offer all the answers. This is why it can be frustrating for you, the consumer, to make an educated choice. Here is what you should look for.

1. Does the company have a good reputation?
   If you do not know about the company, do some research. The company is the most important factor in deciding where to make your investment. For example; if the company has a reputation for delays, or worse yet does not follow up on details, do you want to invest with them? The best designer working for a company with a bad reputation can be a disaster. If there is a catastrophic problem, can the company back up the designer? If there is an expensive problem, can the company afford to make things right? Here are just a few potential problems that we have seen over the years.
   a. Cabinet color or style ordered wrong by the designer
   b. Cabinet manufacturer makes the cabinetry in the wrong color or style by mistake
   c. Designer measures wrong and some cabinetry does not fit
   d. Designer does not order enough molding to finish the job
   e. Designer does not take care to assure that all appliances will fit properly
   These are just a few of the potential problems that can arise. Make sure the company you deal with can afford and will be willing, to make things right in the event of an expensive problem.
2. Does the designer have the capability of doing the project properly?
   The designer should have some schooling. Ask to see credentials. Look at their portfolio. They should have before and after photos of projects, they have managed. Also, ask for referrals. Most importantly ask for at least one referral where there were problems. The character of a company is measured by what they do when there is a problem.
3. Does the company have products you like?
   Before going too far, make sure the company has products you like. If there is nothing available in the style or price range you are comfortable with, don't waste your time or theirs
4. Will the project fit your budget?
   Don't be bashful. The biggest waste of time is when consumers hide their budget. If you give your budget to a reputable firm, you can be assured that you will receive the best value for your investment. If you have no idea what to budget, ask! Your designer should be able to give you reliable price range estimates on your project at the first meeting. This ability is the sign of a seasoned pro!

A true functional kitchen is much more difficult to design. The designer must get to know you and your family habits. The designer must know if you are right or left-handed, the type of cooking you do, how you shop, how many will be in the kitchen and so forth. The designer must take inventory of the types of things you will store in your kitchen as well as the "style" of entertaining. This is not a fast process, but well worth the time spent. A good designer is not easy to find. When you find one, don't get cheap and try and find a lesser expensive solution. You will save money in the long run with a good designer.