The drawers are not great quality, but they are drawers.

To answer your questions specifically... there really is no reason to edgeband the top of drawers. No there should not be a gap. A coat of poly is sufficient to protect the interior of a drawer.

Can you take a picture of them from the side and the bottom please?

Also... ignore Verbo, every neighborhood needs the crazy stay off my lawn guy.

bry911 Thank you so much for your helpful response. I am clearly in a bad spot and this is not what we thought we signed up for. We didn't purposely "choose" poor quality (or to get ripped off), just the wrong contractor obviously.

We have some sort of veneer/edge band or whatever on the top edges (bottoms look like your tops) and no visible gaps. that being said once they are done i don’t think you’ll notice these minor details as long as they function well.

@User We are in a northern suburb of Houston. It is a sub to our general contractor. We paid a lump sum for demo of our old kitchen, inset cabinetry, cabinetry in pantry/laundry room, countertops, backsplash, electrical, etc.remodel for $75,000. We had a flood and were forced to make decisions quickly. This contractor came recommended by a friend of a friend and others she knew. I feel so lost as to what to do. I believe the carpenter is on their "staff" and is salaried.

Ron Dennis Custom Cabinets Thank you for your response. Definitely a hard lesson learned. Again, we had a flood and in our haste, obviously made some big mistakes. Sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Spending more money at this point is over-renovating for this neighborhood, so we will likely just try and live with it, hoping it lasts as we use it. Besides being low budget/poor quality, do you notice any steps they've skipped? I noticed that I don't see staples under. this drawer.

I wouldn't beat yourself up over your decision.

Some of the people on this site who consistently denigrate others about quality have also demonstrated they don't really understand quality all that well themselves. In the end, a consumer is unlikely to gain enough cabinetmaking / woodworking knowledge to make a truly informed decision about cabinets. So, looking at previous work and hoping for the best is about all you can do.

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I don't really like much about the drawers. I would still like to see a picture of the bottom, but from what I can see they are not great quality. They are butt joints and really, quarter-quarter-quarter drawer boxes just don't take that much extra time and drastically improve the durability of the drawer boxes. The glue joints are bad and most of the strength is coming from the fasteners the carpenter has driven through. Additionally, he is struggling to make a proper cut anywhere...

However, again, these are drawers. Many cabinetmakers hate making drawers and will take a lot of shortcuts. While the drawers are a clear sign that you need to do a more thorough quality inspection of the entire job, they are necessarily indicative of the overall quality.

bry911 I was having trouble adding photos but was able to add them to the original post. Hopefully they show up. I see stapes on the top-most drawer, but not on the one below it. We have not payed the final installment. I am just unsure what to have them "fix" at this point. The painter blames the carpenter for the small gap. The carpenter says the painter should caulk it. Doesn't feel great either way.

The GC hired these guys. Make him do his job and sort it out.

2rparikh - The drawers are bad and they need to be remade correctly. Sometimes with a small drawer and slides that mount on the bottom of the box you can get away with a bottom stapled on... that will not work for your drawers. That last drawer with staples isn't even bad quality, it is just faulty. It is impossible for me to tell about the drawer without staples, it could possibly be made OK (not great but OK).

bry911 Thank you so much for your help. Which drawers are bad and need to be remade? What do you mean by faulty? I could use some help with the words necessary to convey the problem to my contractor. Hopefully the contractor will make it right but I am losing faith.

@2rparikh I'm sorry you're going through this! I feel your pain, I really do. My last big remodeling project almost did me in...thief of a contractor, didn't pay subs etc. The problem I've always had regarding advice given here, is that I have NEVER successfully had a contractor take responsiblity for a mistake and fix it on his dime. Never! So don't feel like an idiot if that happens to you.

While the drawers are poorly constructed, they may hold up. My mother had Aristrocraft cabinets with similar construction that lasted her the last 15 years she lived in her house. She didn't have kids abusing them, though. If no one agrees to rebuild the them, you can buy better ones online and attach the existing glides to them or have a competent handyman do it for you. (We are getting ready to remodel a 25 year old kitchen in our new house whose cabinets have Accuride slides which still operate well so I wouldn't get too hung up that they aren't undermount Blum glides.)

On a positive note, from the little I can see if your photos, it looks like he did a nice job fitting the inset drawers in the face frames. Good luck with the rest of your project.

Here's how the Texans finish cabinets on site.

2rparikh - I don't know how many drawers you have, but you might just be better off working out a compromise to buy (or contribute to) premade drawer boxes and having them installed. There are several places that will do dovetailed drawers for about $50 each.

A quick search found The Drawer Depot which has a special for $52.54 for any size prefinished plywood dovetail drawers. These are probably fine quality as it is hard to mess up drawer production once your shop is set up for it.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC - This is not how the OP's cabinets were finished. So this doesn't seem relevant.

Ron Dennis, apparently familiar with Texas construction practice, said: "The second is hearing that they are site built, and site finished."

My pictures substantiate his claim and are therefore quite relevant.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC - My pictures substantiate his claim and are therefore quite relevant.

LOL... So Ron Dennis, made an irrelevant observation which you then substantiated with irrelevant support. Got it!

This is called an illicit transference fallacy. The general is not always true of the specific and vice versa. So, when someone has an actual cabinet there is NO VALUE in discussions of the general quality of cabinet construction in a region.

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Several "PRO's" in this thread seem a lot more interested in pointing out the OP's mistakes than they do in helping. not... cool...

There is nothing wrong with site built cabinets, there are incredible craftsmen who site build cabinets (Ron Paulk comes to mind). Cabinets are remedial woodworking, they are not hard to do well, they are not hard to do on-site, and they require very few tools to do well. The main reason that cabinets are constructed in a workshop is that it is a manufacturing industry and not a craftsmanship industry.

Just like most public facing industries, cabinetmaking is rife with inferior products and mediocrity, which isn't all that different than the countertop fabrication and installation industry which is no better on the whole.

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I am concerned about the drawers, they are inferior, however, getting even gaps/reveals is far more difficult than constructing drawers and the few pictures we they appear consistent.

As I said earlier, the drawer quality calls the whole job into question and it should be thoroughly inspected. However, the general quality of site constructed cabinets in a region is not relevant at this point.

A. Did you have a contract that offered any type of cabinet specification? B. Did you see a previous installation from this cabinet fabricator, either in another home or in a showroom. If the answer is no, you essentially bought these cabinets sight unseen and as you have found it, there is no "standard" in cabinet construction. Live with the cabinets. You never know, they might last 20 years. Or reach out to another contractor at some point who may be able to change the drawer boxes and hardware.

If you did have a contract that indicated a different construction method (ie, dove tail drawers or full-extension drawers) or if you did see another installation that used a different construction method, then I think you have an argument that your cabinets should meet those standards.

Yes. We obviously cannot change what we did wrong up to this point. Just trying to figure out how to handle where we are now and how to best move forward.

At this point, I am questioning everything about our contractor and their subs but we may have little recourse as the contract is, indeed, quite general. Lesson learned. I went with a recommendation of an acquaintance, sight unseen. She and several of her friends were very pleased with their work. I have asked her for pictures of her drawers for comparison- we'll see if she sends them. Lesson learned. Perhaps my only/best option is to Iive with it and replace the drawer boxes when they fail?

Here is a picture of the fronts after they were put back by painters. My understanding is that they will get a a final adjustment by the cabinet guy when the hardware is installed. It is difficult to tell in the pictures, but the fronts seem to be flush. Hopefully there aren't any major flaws here, as well. Maybe they'll at least look pretty, even if they can't hold anything. 🤦‍♀️

The contractor rarely comes by (except when we owe money) and I am not expecting much from them at all at this point. We still owe the final payment, but aside from saying, "the quality of these drawers is terrible", I am at a loss. They did instalI an inferior sink- 18 gauge vs. 16- to what we chose. We noticed, asked to have it replaced, and were given a hard time that we are "picky" and that they were trying to save us money. They did comply.

Are you suggesting I have someone come in and inspect all aspects- plumbing, etc. for quality, etc? If so, who? Does it even matter if the contract is vague? Do we have any recourse in this whole thing?

bry911 We found further evidence of very poor construction of the boxes as the painter worked yesterday. At least 6 of the drawers have gaps in the corners where you can actually see the floor a bit.

At this point, having their guy come back and fix this doesn't even seem like something I want. The carpenter's initial response to the gaps was that the painter needed to caulk the insides of the drawers. The painter said that it wasn't his job. Is this an attempt at and aesthetic fix to a structural problem?

I'm wondering what the cost would be to get new boxes (perhaps something like the online link you sent) and have them installed by a quality carpenter instead. Just thinking through my options as our final payment to the contractor will be $7000.

Do the cabinet drawers and faces at least seem to fit well so that well-made drawers could bring this up to an acceptable/usable condition?

Even if the contract is vague and doesn't specify the construction of the cabinets, this is unacceptable and needs to be redone correctly by the GC, correct?

I'd start by getting an estimate from a drawer fabricator (online) to replace all of your drawers and go to the GC with that. It may be more than what you still owe him. If so, you could buy the drawers and call it even, then pay someone yourself to install them. If the GC is willing to find someone to make new drawers for you, I'd ask for a sample drawer first. LOL. But I wouldn't give him another dime until this is fixed. It's such a shame because it takes some care and attention to detail to fit inset drawer fronts and cabinet doors and the cabinet maker did a nice job. Like someone else said, he must hate making drawers (in which case he should have bought them).

First a comment on the contract then I will post some advice...

Even if the contract is vague and doesn't specify the construction of the cabinets, this is unacceptable and needs to be redone correctly by the GC, correct?

The vague contract isn't the problem. Cabinets are generally goods and therefore governed by the Uniform Commercial Code, which has some implied warranties, one of which is merchantability. The implied warranty of merchantability basically says that goods must conform to reasonable quality expectations/standards. So, someone who supplies goods (such as cabinets) can charge whatever they want, but they must deliver goods that are at least of typical quality unless they specifically note the goods are substandard.

Your problem is getting your contractor to accept responsibility for this problem without taking legal action and losing more than you gain. In my experience, a contractor's willingness to take responsibility for bad work is independent of the contract. Contractors regularly go well beyond what is in the contract and they also regularly ignore the procedures in their own contract.

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Your drawers are bad, but the cabinets themselves look pretty good. This is not to say that they are good but they do look pretty good. At any rate, your cabinets are probably a done deal at this point. I would get better drawers.

Your carpenter seems to have done a good job getting the reveals correct and, if the drawers are all operating smoothly, I believe he can probably assemble and install premade drawer boxes.

If it were me, I would go to the contractor and note that these are not acceptable (use the lingo from my earlier post to explain why). I would offer this solution... If the carpenter agrees to measure the drawers for ordering, assembles, and install them, I will pay half the cost of the new drawer boxes (this will likely be under $1,000 total, so $500 out of pocket for you). Honestly, if we are just talking $800 or so for drawer boxes I would probably just offer to pay it all if the carpenter agrees to install and be done with it. The drawer boxes I linked are finished so the painter will not have to return.

Many people take shortcuts on drawers, in fact, many cabinet shops just don't even bother building drawer boxes, they just order the kits. Just because the carpenter took shortcuts on drawers doesn't mean your cabinets themselves will not be acceptable quality.

Your kitchen looks great.

I'd see if you could get some IKEA boxes to work. Full extension slides, soft close, and probably average $60.00 each. Fast too.

I store all my dishes in drawers, so for both of the kitchens I have done, I specified a thicker base for the drawer bottom and heavy duty glides.

My fear would be that if you fully load one of those large drawers the base is going to fail and drop your dishes.

Maybe test one of the drawers with a bunch of smaller dumbbells to simulate several stacks of dishes in a drawer. Does the drawer base sag or separate?

chispa Yes, this is also my concern. We have almost all drawers in the lowers- some are quite big and I am concerned about loading them up with pots and pans. The carpenter stated that they would support 150 pounds, but that does not seem legit at this point.

The drawers are not to standard. One pic shows the bottom stapled on. The only time that works is with undermount euro guides. For side mount guides a dadoed bottom is needed.

The one pic with the gaps, the bottom butt jointed, I have never seen in my life.

The top edge of the drawer box should have a finish on it. I cannot tell from your pics if it does. If a drop of water on it soaks in quickly, it is not.

bry911 I am getting my wording/facts together. Thank you so much for sticking with me through this.

All of the top drawers are stapled only. They are not small- one is 40" wide. Additionally, there are other drawers that are just stapled. 8" deep by 10" and 18" wide. I will include the pictures of the way the others are constructed. Are they any better? What do I list as the flaw of these, exactly? Besides being able to see the light/floor through 6 of them. Ugh. I was told by the carpenter that these drawers could hold 150 pounds.

My contractor has little interest in doing things properly and is all about speed. She hasn't been by since 9/8 and I'm sure will come up with a quick fix. How do I respond if she proposes caulking as a solution? That is what the carpenter said should be done.

2rparikh - Cracks at the bottom of drawers are not normal. IMO it is substandard and I firmly believe that is an opinion shared by any reputable carpenter, woodworker, or cabinetmaker.

Can you measure the thickness of the bottom of the other drawers that you are asking about? To do this just measure the outside depth and the inside depth and subtract. It is possible that the drawers are 1/2" and have mechanical fasteners, in which case, the carpenter could argue they are adequate... they are definitely not the best, but probably adequate.

Just to be clear... If this drawer bottom is 1/2" or more thick, is tight all the way around, and has fasteners through the side into the bottom, it is likely adequate. Glue would make it better...

If it doesn't have mechanical fasteners horizontally through the sides into the bottom, or is using 1/4" plywood, it is definitely inferior.

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This drawer is inferior no matter how thick the plywood is.

If you are going to secure a drawer bottom without a groove, it needs to be tight all the way around. Any significant gap will compromise the nails or staples and make it much easier for them to work loose over time.

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Seeing light through the bottom of the drawers is not the problem, it is just a symptom of the problem. The reason you can see light through the bottom of the drawers is because they are constructed poorly... they are not going to suddenly be constructed better if you can't see the light.

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You really don't care about how much weight a drawer will hold once, you care about how long a drawer will last with weight being added to it and removed from it regularly. Once those staples work out just a little bit (which they will) there is going to be play in bottom and once there is some play the drawer is going to fail rather fast.

However, that may take a long time in an 8" deep drawer. There just isn't likely to be that much weight in an 8" deep drawer.

ETA: If there is a way to sneak this article into your carpenter's toolbox, try it... It will save your carpenter time and money while ensuring no callbacks. https://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2014/09/19/the-quarter-quarter-quarter-drawer-system/

bry911 This is what I found...it seems the bottoms of the drawers that are stapled have 1/4 plywood. The others are 1/2". I tried to capture (via the bad gap) what could potentially be fasteners? I measured the screw in the glides and it doesn't appear to be in the same location as the potential fastener (if that makes sense). I'm not sure why some drawers were stapled and others were assembled differently.