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kendrahhendra

Is this typical? - Payment deadlines

3 years ago

Below are the contract payment deadlines set forth by a GC that we are seriously considering using. They seem off. I'm used to 10% down before any work begins and a final payment should be around 25% - large enough to hold the purse strings and make sure they finish the job.


However, we live in Manhattan, where most things about construction are vastly different than anywhere else. Even finding a quality GC to bid on this job has been a **serious** challenge: We are renovating a small studio apartment far uptown, the worst neighborhood for contractors to park in the city, and it is so challenging finding someone who does quality work to take on a job with a budget around $150 k. (Most want $500k - $5M jobs.) No to mention how hard it is everywhere now to find contractors post-pandemic.


He does good work and has been pleasant thus far. I just wanted feedback on these percentages before I request changes that could potentially cause him to back away and leave us with no other options. Is this totally unreasonable even for Manhattan?


25% - Deposit (10% at acceptance of value engineering agreement, 15% prior to the first day of construction) - Initial Deposit = $15,000
20% - After Demo and Removals
20% - After Rough Plumbing & Rough Electrical Wiring

20% - After Flooring & Bathroom Tiling 10% - After Painting & Millwork Install

5% - At Completion

Comments (13)

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    It's not unusual at all, for anywhere. Even my cabinetmaker wants progress payments, as do most general contractors. I bill my own clients for my time 2X per month. If contractors waited until the end of the job to get paid, they'd all go out of business for cash flow problems. They have to pay their subs, hence the schedule he's laid out. If you're worried about him skipping out on the job mid way through, you can always hold up the last payment until all the punch list items are completed.

  • 3 years ago

    I don't you'll find anyone anywhere who will accept a 25% final payment. I've never seen them be higher than 10%. Also, 20-25% upfront not unusual. It's important to keep on top of the job at all times. If you're not on site go by the site every day to check on progress and make sure the drawings are being followed. Questions also will come up. Make sure you answer questions promptly. If the job slows down due to your lack of response you run the risk of their starting another job and then coming back to yours in a week (if you're lucky). My point being that if something goes wrong you should know about it right away and not be shocked at the end. If they're pulling a permit they will have city inspections periodically as well to keep them honest (if the inspectors aren't rubber stamping).

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    A lot of cash flows early in a project--even with little to no on-site activity. Most suppliers want deposits for things like cabinets and tops, tile, etc. The payment schedule proposed is not out of the ordinary, in my experience.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    Were I this contractor, I would change the "Afters" to "Befores". In other words, Demo and removals will be paid for before I start the rough-ins.

  • 3 years ago

    Now about timelines .... The contract says nothing about a start or completion date. I can sort of understand in these labor shortage, inflation, supply chain times it being very hard to pinpoint beginning and end dates. However, I don't want this to drag on beyond reason with no recourse. How is this being handled in contracts these days? The said they can begin after the new year and I presume it is 3 months of work, though will have to hear what they say. How should this be spelled out?


    And, thanks all for your replies. I'm thrilled to hear that these are normal percentages and I don't have to do a negotiation on this! (I've been reading articles and one said to have 1/3 of the payment due at completion. Quite a stark contrast to 5%.)


    Yes, kandrewspa - I'm totally on board with rapid responses for contractors. The unit is down the hall from where we live so I can check in daily. I want not opportunities for them to jump on to another job.





  • PRO
    3 years ago

    A construction contract should include an estimated start date and estimated completion date with caveats for delays outside the contractor's control like the lead times for plan reviews and permit approval, supplier delays, etc.

    Kendrah thanked Charles Ross Homes
  • 3 years ago

    If the remodel work includes a bathroom and kitchen, there is no way you are looking at only 3 months, specially in Manhattan.

  • 3 years ago

    It includes a bathroom gut but not kitchen.

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I think the payment schedule is generous! Timelines and estimated finish date? Much of this is on you.

    These will ONLY apply if:

    You select, and have ALL the materials on site, or stored, prior to work start.

    You don't change your mind on design, or materials.

    All of his due diligence - permits , inspections required before other work can continue. .....yes, it is "on him" - but these days and in Manhattan? ........prepare yourself for delays.

    Beyond that? Make sure you understand exactly who will procure materials, who will pay for those materials. If those have been given allocated quesstimates by the contractor? Make certain you are good with them. Have your attorney read the contract, and.....proceed.

    Remember this guy, and NO OTHER , is your designer. You are your designer. Or get one a.s.a.p.

    Read that five times. He is not, and do not ask it of him.

    You are not living in the work zone condo? Great. But every single project begun these days needs a doubling or tripling of the formerly "normal" time frame. You're finished ahead of time? Hands clapping: ) You never know what you'll find when you open walls to the studs. Remember that $$!

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Re: the timeline: FWIW, we live in San Francisco. I'm remodeling our master bath. We started August 22 and we probably won't be done until after Thanksgiving. Why is it taking so long? Because (a) our stone fabricator has a 6-week lead time for fabrication from the date of templating, and (b) the tub we ordered isn't in yet. And with kitchen and bath remodels, in particular, the process is fairly linear. Certain things can't be done until other things are finished. Like, I won't be able to get the shower glass done until the stone curbs are in. Painting can't be finished until the tile is done. Etc., etc. And I've had all my materials on site except for the tub since the beginning.

    So, the moral of the story is, the timeline is a suggestion assuming all the stars align. But we are still impacted by COVID supply chain delays as well as the shortage of workers, which creates backlogs. You're also beholden to NYC building inspector availability for interim inspections i.e. plumbing and electrical, for example. You can try to avoid as much delay as possible by choosing in-stock items. But be prepared for the possibility this could go a month or two longer than stated.

  • 3 years ago

    Great advice Jan. I've looked hard at what has gone wrong in the past with me and contractors and am trying to remedy it this time around before the project starts.


    1.) I am using a designer for the first time. She was recommended by the contractor - they have worked together before and like working with each other.


    2.) Many designers I interviewed just do the design and pass everything off to the contractor. I wanted a designer that also serves as a project manager as sorts - tracks who is reponsible for what purchases, does ordering, tracks what is on site. The one we are working with will do this.


    3.) We are doing a design phase now and will begin procuring ASAP so everything can be on site before work begins. I realize this might not be possible with delays. So my new mantra is to shoot for OK instead of perfect. This is a guest studio and office for my husband. It doesn't have to perfect. If I like something but it will take too long to get in, I can decide to like a more readily available substitute instead. Safety - non-slip flooring, good grab bars, adequate lighting are my must haves. Beyond that - whatevah!


    4.) Design with permits and approvals in mind. For example, I'm likely going to do a tub instead of a walk in shower for many reasons (the bathroom layout is wonky as hell) but also because it will require less permiting. I'm having the contractor meet with the building super first thing. Whatever can be made most simple is what we will do.


    5.) I anticipate it will take longer than what they say. I hope that three months of actual construction will be only five months.


    I'm open to any other suggestions anyone has about what I can do to make this process go as smoothly as possible.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    " However, I don't want this to drag on beyond reason with no recourse. How is this being handled in contracts these days?"


    Commercial contracts have penalties for late completion, but it's nearly unheard of in residential. I like Charle's idea for a date to shoot for, but there would be no liquidated damages on any residential contract I ever signed.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    " I wanted a designer that also serves as a project manager as sorts - tracks who is responsible for what purchases, does ordering, tracks what is on site. The one we are working with will do this."

    VERY GOOD CALL on that.