Did he give a reason? I mean that's pretty bold to say "I won't build the 12/12!"

That, IMO, is a massive redesign $$$. And not for the better. It's not just a small change or one that can be done on the fly.

Do you have any volume ceilings as part of the design that would be impacted?

He said he just has no desire nor need to find work. He is a niece's boyfriend and building costs are so high that we are struggling to find someone to build within our budget. Costs just keep rising. So he is doing us a favor by considering the build.

We have vaulted ceiling in great room, which is where the second story window on the front is located. The original plan had bonus space above the garage so that is probably why the 12/12 was used. We don't want the bonus space but did want to use it as bulk storage.

Find a different builder. Find a higher budget. Find a smaller and less complex plan. ALL of those things will need to happen in order for you to be able to build. If you are already struggling, there is not point in even considering a plan like the above. Building is substantially more expensive than buying existing. You either come to peace with building new is not for you right now, or you throw that plan away and find a simpler one about half the size, so that you can meet your budget, with all the rising costs factored in.

"he will not build our plan with 12/12 pitch roof"

"has no desire nor need to find work"

"So he is doing us a favor by considering the build"

Sounds like a successful project that will be delivered on time, on budget, with no issues for you whatsoever. The signs are there if you just want to see them.

" Sounds like a successful project that will be delivered on time, on budget, with no issues for you whatsoever. "

True. But the homeowner is going to have to want a completely different project than is in their head. They will not be getting ^that house.

That was sarcasm BTW.

The 12 / 12 pitch seems reasonable for the snow in Montana. The roof with that pitch is more likely to shed snow.

That said, I know someone in the trades who decided to have a home built for $750k and without any change orders it ended up costing $1M because of rising material costs that got passed on to the owner.

To estimate anything less than $300 per square foot would be a mistake.

If this builder can not comprehend the negative impact of switching to a 6/12 roof pitch, send him on his merry way and get a good builder. You will probably be better off in the long run.

@dbr463 - So he is doing us a favor by considering the build.

Just in case you missed the giant flashing yellow caution light... This is likely the first of many things that you will need to change because he is doing you a favor. There is a rather significant chance that the house you end up with will bear small resemblance to the house you planned.

This is a business relationship and no one is doing anyone any favors. This is not the type of adventure that you start with someone who is "just doing this job because..." That is a recipe for a long and drawn out financial disaster.

Find someone who is interested in building your project. Be willing to accept constructive advice, because that is what a builder who is on your team will offer.

Good luck

As others have said, changing the roof to 6/6 is a completely new and different design, which needs careful review inside and out before any decision-making.

If it was my house, I don't think I'd do it.

If the current design is a budget breaker, the best strategy is to start over with a new design.

I hear all of you. I have said the same things to myself about the "warning signs". Thanks for driving it home for me!

This is my second set of plans by the way, the first one was completely custom but budget numbers were way over what we expected. So, we bought a plan online with a smaller sq footage and made some modifications. The roof pitch was not one of them. As it turns out, the second plan budget costs are where the first plan was a year ago.

What we can afford vs what we want to afford are not aligned. We can't help feeling this market is going to implode at some point in the future and we will be end up with a home that losses value. Does anyone else think the housing market will crash? New and existing homes?

As DeWayne said "You either come to peace with building new is not for you right now, or you throw that plan away and find a simpler one about half the size, so that you can meet your budget, with all the rising costs factored in."

Define "housing market crash"? Define "some point in the future"?

Does that mean it goes back to March 2020 values (before covid) or all the way to Dec 2010 which was the low point (for many areas) after the 2008 Financial crisis.

Unless you are looking to flip, it doesn't matter if your home loses or increases value, specially if you plan to live there for many years.

Or you can be like some people who have missed every buying opportunity because they are always waiting for that big RE market crash and have been renting for the last 25 years!

If the market value of a home is more important to you than having a stable family home to live in for years to come, then maybe renting is your best choice. I'll just say that the last 2 houses we rented (one while looking for a house to buy in a new state and the other while building) both got sold while we were renting, so we were expected to move out when the lease ended ... doesn't make for a stable home life when your landlord can decide to sell at any time!

Does anyone else think the housing market will crash? New and existing homes?

Plenty of people see a crash on the horizon. I would counter with there are still not enough homes to meet demand, and it is more likely that appreciation will stall. So I think it far more likely that houses will not keep up with inflation than it is that houses will suddenly crash.

This is just my opinion...

He said he just has no desire nor need to find work. He is a niece's boyfriend and building costs are so high that we are struggling to find someone to build within our budget. Costs just keep rising. So he is doing us a favor by considering the build.

You are looking for trouble using a family friend or family member to build. Especially one who has already told you he doesn't want to do something. How many more corners will he cut?

And it will be no favor when he doesn't have the time to send his subs to your place and your house sits unfinished for months at a time.

Does anyone else think the housing market will crash? New and existing homes?

Yes eventually it probably will crash, just as eventually we'll go through another recession. However just like the market, housing will eventually recover. Just look at 2008 and how housing prices have skyrocketed since then.

How long are you planning to stay in this house?

To be fair, it sounds like you said, "Our budget is $$$." He said, "I can't build your plan for $$$, I need to cut costs, like a flatter roof." That is not a poor reflection on him. If you said, "Here is our plan, what will it cost?", that is different.

It's pretty clear your desires and your budget are not aligned. And cost overruns are more likely than coming in under budget.

You need a much simpler plan, a manufactured home (defined costs), or an already built house. Consider yourself lucky, really. Getting into a build and then having costs escalate is no fun.

I agree with @bry911, there is still more demand than supply, so a crash isn't likely in the near term. I read recently (one person's opinion) that at some point, Gen Z will mature and since they are a smaller demographic group than the ones preceding then there could be a slowdown. It also depends on whether enough housing is built to meet the pent up demand, and interest rates are always a factor in demand.

Finally, housing markets are very local. Statistics that are averaged across the whole country may have very little to do with where you are. Booms go bust and formerly small towns can go through booms. Good luck predicting the future. :-) But I don't think building new is worth it for a short-term stay. Have you looked at postings here from people who are building? It is a lot of aggravation and very time consuming.

So sorry you are dealing with this. Here is a picture of differtn roof lines

I would say to talk to him to see if he would do any of these, but frankly saying he's doing a favor? and he's a "friend/relative" ? That would have me run away. If he is throwing in your face that he doesn't need the work, then what makes you think he is going to do a quality job for you and not take short cuts etc so he can move onto a bigger, better paying job.

Ugh - good luck to you!

I went to an auction this morning and there were many more bidders than I had seen recently. The amount of interested parties and the winning bid surprised me. In my area, there is still a lack of supply and prices here are up 11% over last year. But, just because my area is still a seller's market, does not mean your area will have the same dynamics.

I don't have the stomach for trying to build a property with the current tight labor market for experienced tradesmen and inflation causing uncertainty for material costs. However, I don't anticipate either of those issues to disappear meaning building costs will be even higher next year.

As others have said, run, don't walk, away from this builder. I would look into prefabs which meet your needs and budget rather than trying to build custom. As for the real estate market, everyone has their opinions but nobody can predict what will happen. The only certainty is that real estate values increase over time.

Don’t do it.

I think you know the answer just by having noted your concerns and now reading it. Hope you can come to a better solution for a new home with the right builder.

You don't need a builder. You need a lumber yard the take your plans and put together a materials bid. Three different yards are advised. That's their job. You need a truss company to take your plans and create the specifications for your truss package with a bid. Three bids are recommended. A rough crew can give you a bid on taking your lumber package and trusses and constructing the shell. There are tons of roofers because of the reroofing market.

Maybe he can take over from there. You've saved him a lot of time and handled the 12/12 roof.

If not, move on with someone else or look for a drywall crew.

Design a home that fits your budget.

Lumber has settled but is expected to increase again after June. Overall costs rarely retreat.

You're breaking 3 cardinal rules: don't do business with a relative or their significant other or someone who wants to usurp the role of others.

90% chance you will be left to finish a butchered version of this house with no reduction in cost.

Slow down and find a better builder and a better, more committed architect.

Hi, dbr,

Not to sidetrack the conversation, but treating design and construction as separate and sequential tasks invites substituting the expertise of one professional for another. Architects and builders have different, albeit complementary expertise. A better alternative is to get the builder and the architect collaborating in the design phase. If there's a compelling reason to change roof pitch let that be debated by the pros you've hired early in the process, not at the eleventh hour.

I don't know your market, but as a homeowner, you may find it difficult to get suppliers to do free material take offs and truss designs and you may find it difficult to obtain competitive bids for any portion of your project.

Buy an existing house. You (mostly) know the costs there. If the budget is slready stretched, then a new build is not for you. It costs a big premium to build new over buying existing.

"Will we lose the dormer over the garage or the second story window on the front? "

I though we had established that the builder's demands would make it impossible to have the habitable upper level spaces shown in the original design.

This is not a matter of collaboration or sharing expertise; the builder wants you to build a one story house because it benefits him.

Me thinks the best route to take is to have a house designed that meets your needs (function and budget) and fits your site by a competent architect, that can design within a budget. That could mean getting a competent builder involved in the design process to contribute cost of construction information.

With his suggestions, you will be building half the house in that plan, in order to meet budget. That may be the reality of what your budget can purchase, but there is no point in even thinking about building a house gargoyled by a builder to change it to suit the budget. If it's going to get cut in half, someone with actual design talent should be the one doing it. But, that is a paid service, and another cost to mount up, with no dirt moved to show for it.

This goes back to the heart of the issue, of if building is an accomplishable goal for you at this point in time. Buying a small existing home, saving money, and building equity, is often the best thing that can be done, whether or not the longer term goal of building a brand new home occurs. When you have savings and investment liquidity, you can move to your advantage, no matter what the housing market does.

". . .best route to take is to have a house designed that meets your needs (function and budget) and fits your site by a competent architect,"

We thought we did this. But during the time the architect was revising the second set of plans, prices rose over $100-200k in 3 months. We own the lot, 10 acres in our ideal location. I do look at existing home sales but haven't seen one that makes us want to sell the land and buy existing. So based on everyone's input, which we greatly appreciate, we will either have to be prepared to increase the budget or find other options, including a different builder. Thanks Everyone!

" we will either have to be prepared to increase the budget or find other options, including a different builder. "

Another builder should be first on the list

If you own 10 acres, what are the restrictions around using it? I am not one to advocate for mobile homes generally as they depreciate,, but if you could buy a used one for now, to eliminate rental expenses, it could be a path forward. Put that rental savings towards the build fund, and you might find the original dream home doable in a couple of years. You would also get to enjoy the land now, and make various improvements to it.

I repeat, look closely at prefabs. You know exactly what you're getting for your money, material waste is minimized (i.e., the environment benefits), you get some degree of control over the design, and most important, the need for a custom builder is eliminated. Subs will still be needed, but those costs are much more manageable, and the prefab company may be able to help with locating competent ones in your area.

I'd get another builder regardless. This builder isn't interested in the job.

I'm in a similar boat to you. I planned a renovation and addition to my house. Initial plans were finalized in late 2021. The budget was about $400k. That was too high, so we trimmed the project back a bit to be closer to $300k. Cut to a year later, when I had my building permit, and the budget for the trimmed-back project was back up over $400k. So we trimmed some more (well, lopped some more off). Price changes were largely due to double-digit labor cost increases, although material costs were also up by smaller percentages.

That said, I am about halfway through construction and prices have stayed where they were estimated back in January. Rates are so high and most people fund construction through HELOCs, second mortgages, or construction loans, so that is going to naturally suppress demand for construction (we are still in the tail end of this last construction boom, which is why this isn't yet evident). That should tend to keep prices from rising much more than they already have, but I for one doubt that the cost of appliances, windows and doors, tile, and the like are coming down or that the cost of labor is coming down either. Other than commodities, price increases tend to be sticky.

It's a folly to plan around the real estate market, but I think the general consensus is unless there is a really bad recession, prices will dip but not crash, certainly not like 2008. Anyone who got or refinanced a mortgage from 2008 through 2022 has a very strong incentive to stay put given where new mortgage rates are, so inventory is still very low. Secondary markets that shot up super high in Covid (mostly in the West/Soutwest) may see more dramatic dips.

For what it might be worth, I believe this house design could be modified to look better and cost less.

To broaden the help available here, you should post the plans.

It might also help to edit the advanced settings in your profile to accept private messages.

Ok res2architect, I am taking your advice and posting the plan. Anyone who has ideas on how to modify the plan to look better and cost less, please send my way! The elevations are in my original post.