It will be almost impossible to carry anything, like furniture or a 12-pack up a spiral staircase.

Outside stairs, might be a security issue but also will they ice over in winter?

option 1, inside.

spiral is a waste and no one wants to go outside in bad weather.

One fact of life is stairs take up space. I was in the home of one of Frank Lloyd Wright's apprentice's and he told me Wright did not like the amount of space a stair takes up. As we ascended the stairs in his home, I realized my elbows were touching the walls on each side of the stair for it was only 24" wide, obviously not have been inspected by the code official, but met the needs of the owner.

Thanks. Plan is to finish that space with Minisplit AC, flooring etc so that it can be considered as livable square feet, Is there anything that would prevent considering it as livable square feet?

For example, having a pulled down ladder or a spiral stair case? I am sure code can vary based on the location but looking for some general guide lines

You find a way to get into that attic from the second floor, NOT the garage.

Most building codes allow for a door to UN finished space ) just call it generous attic.

You wouldn't want that as access on an ongoing basis, anyway.

How to get man cave furniture up a rickety stair or spiral? It isn't easy.....sometimes it is impossible

Didn't want access this space over the garage from second floor. Wanted this to be an independent space that can be accessed from the garage area only ...Long story :-)

Good points about going up and down and furnishing the man cave with a spiral stair case.Not going to happen :-).

We don't get snow here. House is in a nice subdivision. Not so much worried about security concerns.

Inside stair case is going take much so much "Precious garage space". More I think about it, outside stairs looks more attractive and practical?

If you ever might want to use that space as living quarters, I would want the outside stairs so no one has to come inside the house to get up there. Grown child, caregiver, rental/ADU, etc. Figu Figure out how to provide some cover for the times YOU want to go up there from the house.

A stair takes up the same amount of space outside as it does inside.

Inside stair case takes space inside the garage where yoh could park cars. out side stairs dint have that impact

A car can not be parked wherever the stair is. Size the garage to accommodate a car and a stair.

If the space above the garage is ever going to be finished and used as normal living space, the IRC (the code used in most of the US) doesn't permit a means of egress that goes through a garage.

The laws will point toward fire safety. So no a pull down stair case isn't an option for living space. I would assume that is also why walking through a garage is not code for a living space. The likelihood of a fire starting in a garage space and getting out through it would keep one wanting the stairs to be separate from the garage.

For most flexibility, consider having both exterior and interior stairs. For resale, try to design it so that a doorway can be easily added in the future, if desired, to access the room via the 2nd floor of your house.

Actually, the "long story " wold be lot more interesting than gyrating about how to get up there : )

Yes, both inside and outside. The outside straight stairs can be used for moving large items on a good weather day, and can have a nice 12” deep tread. The inside stairs can be used when the weather is not good. They can wind a bit or have a middle landing. They don’t need to be round spiral - each section can be rectangular with landings and you can see how small you can make the footprint. If a pull down ladder meets your needs and building code, you can do that. Stairs would be better.

I know someone who has this setup, and they seem to use the inside staircase as a closet (almost). There is not a lot of movement between garage and living area, but it is a separate building from the house.

I think outside stairs are the answer and honestly we need to see the plan since this sapce in most cases is not up to code for living space actually. I need to see your plans and all the architects drawings of this area for sure . I hate tell you this nice neighborhoods have the same issues with security.IMO you need to know right now how you plan to use this space and talk to your architect about the way to access it. I bet you have an HOA they will also have "rules" about what you do . I need to see the house plans I agree the stairs take the sma espace and for me to have to go through a stinky garage to get there would not be good ever.

Yes, a major redesign is needed.

Thanks everyone. Couple of clarifications

• Second floor of the house is NOT connected to the space over garage.
• Space over the garage, slope of the roof etc TO BE designed in a way to be furnished later and make it livable space (enough head room, external windows, rough plumbing etc). Will talk to the Architect

Am to understand that if the exit door from second floor space over the garage is through the internal staircase then it will be against the codes to make it a livable space? If that is the case then obviously I need an external stair case for sure

Maybe it's just symantics but I don't understand what you (or anyone else) mean by "external" and "internal". The stair can be "internal" to the whole building structure but it needs to exit directly to the outside if this is a stand alone garage with no other attached spaces. And like Lomo indicated, a stair can go through a mudroom or whatnot. The exit path just can't go through a garage.

Below is an "internal" enclosed stair under the structure's roof but it exits directly outside.

Thanks for the clarifications and responses.

• Garage is attached to the house.
• There are no plans to have a stair case from the mud room or anywhere on the first floor to this space over the garage.
• No plans to connect second floor also to this space over garage.

Given all these, To make the livable space as per code, I am going to make plans to have a so called "external stair case" with an exit path NOT going through the garage. I assume Architect and Builder be aware of it as they deal with the codes and laws :-)

Here is another way to skin the cat.

Yes, external stairs -- there are rules about having a fire door between a garage and any living space, so regular stairs up wouldn't cut it. Architect should know these things.

Architect should know these things. I agree.Max G may be the exception and actually have HIRED an architect but with such basic questions that any HIRED architect should be able to answer, I think most folks posting questions like this really DON'T have an architect. And Max G, don't take that pure speculation (because that's what it is) the wrong way it's just that I've seen the "my architect" phrase used with such basic questions all too often to be accurate as often as it's pretended to be.

But good luck with your project. Exciting times ahead!

There is no reason someone with a hired architect wouldn’t post on a design forum to try to solicit opinions on the different upsides and downsides to inside vs outside stairs. He wasn’t seeking code info, but how it would be to live with either option, or options he hadn’t considered. Since he likely didn’t know the code restriction, but now he does, he can narrow discussions with his architect. Posting here probably helped.

Absolutely agree. Knowledge is power! Posting here helps to get various ideas and experiences from you all. Helps someone like me to give more well thought out ideas to an Architect from which that person can progressively build on than starting from scratch.

Going back to the discussion, having a staircase from inside the home first floor defeats the purpose of having a independent place without any connection to the first or second floor. Only option seems to be a stair case from outside.

Would you want to go to your apartment in lousy weather up a set of outside stairs? The entrance can be in the garage, it needs to be a dedicated entrance and stairway, it is not allowed to empty into the garage. Build a hall and have the man door be specifically accessible to this hallway and the stairs to the area.

Sure you don't want to add the "long story"?

I agree with millworkman. For an incremental investment that's likely to be 1% or less of overall project costs, eliminate the potential hazards and maintenance associated with an outdoor stair.

We put a pull down stairs in our garage.

" We put a pull down stairs in our garage. "

He eliminated that option long ago as this will eventually be a livable space and pull down stairs are appropriate only for storage.

An enclosed stair that accesses the space above the garage from garage and outdoors and house will give you the most flexibility in future plans to make the space "a man cave/livable area."

Ok. Let me make sure I understand this correctly

• Enclosed area in the garage itself.
• Staircase to up and down in the enclosed area.
• A door to get into the enclosed area from the garage.
• A door to get outside/exit to backyard from the enclosed area

Kind of. Provide a stair that is protected from the weather, and occupants of the space above the garage do not have to go into the garage space to exit. The stair should be built so it does not effect the function of the garage.

My parents' next door neighbors did something similar to their two story garage and there's an external staircase to the upper floor. My parent's gargage also had a second level accessed by a large, heavy duty pull down staircase, but it was unfinished space for storage of seasonal things like croquet sets and old stuff. It was miserable to climb up there when we cleared out the house and garage after my mother's death. I literally stood in the opening and dropped things down rather than carry things while on the steps.

I had a "bonus" room over the garage in my last house, but there was a second back staircase going to it from the mudroom area plus access to it from the primary suite's bathroom hallway. We loved that space and the uses changed over the years...exercise/craft space then computer/office space. The easier the access, the more you'll use the space IMO.

Spiral staircases are horrible. Particularly if this is going to be a man cave, your friends will be banging their heads and possibly falling on these stairs. I speak from experience. The outside stairs idea would be better than a spiral staircase, but particularly if you live in an area with snow in the winter, you are going to dislike this idea too. Inside stairs. Build a shed if you miss the garage space that you will be giving up.

Thank you everyone. I have a good idea on how to move forward.

Regarding the "long story" (not connecting the house to the space over garage) Jan Moyer been asking for ....it is not juicy as you would think :-)

I will have more topics to cover as we move forward. Hopefully I become an expert by the time our home is done and I can advise and help someone else down the line

I will have more topics to cover as we move forward. Hopefully I become an expert by the time our home is done and I can advise and help someone else down the line

That's great! So many folks here write "What a great community!!" but then even though they've likely accumulated a great deal of knowledge from building their own project, never to seem to quite have the time to offer thoughts, suggestions, or help to anyone else. Not that that's required here of course but it's always nice to see the folks that have benefited here, take time to benefit others.

And good luck with your project!!