How about Kordes roses Beverly & Wedding Bells ? Both grow into big rounded bushes for me and bloom a lot , both healthy with no spray . Also Plum Perfect .( mine got Downy Mildew in previous years and is half its former size now ) .

Have you grown cl. pipinkiepipinkie or Pink Pet or Gold Blush? I tink Cinderella might also be able to be grown in this manner. Have you grown Bride Parcum?Brise parfum!

I know you posted here in the modern rose forum, but have you considered one of the true tea roses? Many of them form huge, remontant mounds. One good example is Rosette Delizy, but that's just one of dozens with the same general presentation. Also, for some reason, Sir Thomas Lipton, comes to mind. But I warn you, his thorns rival, if not surpass, New Da*n, uh, I mean New Dawn. He's a rugosa hybrid, after all. But my STL is huge, and totally disease free.

That's lovely, Sheila. I amazed you don't have to prune it, but I've read teas don't like that. Beautiful iris and setting, too.

Dianela, you mentioned most Austins were out, but did say that Teasing Georgia was a possibility. I probably shouldn't even make suggestions to you, since we get no blackspot here, but I do grow some large, self supporting shrubby roses. Have you thought of Golden Celebration? Mine is about 9X7 feet and is an excellent bloomer and repeater. I do prune it every spring. I posted some GC photos on the thread lower down about Jude and Friends. But here are some more photos. I'm going to flood you with suggestions, I'm afraid, but here goes.

with Boscobel

Augusta Luise is a big shrubby rose.

Royal Bonica is another very large shrub rose. It's a sport of Bonica.

I grow two Love Song roses and they are big, shrubby, and excellent bloomers. They do well in heat, too.

Abbaye de Cluny is another large rose, self supporting, blooming constantly. This is a Meilland Romantica.

How exciting you will be starting a new garden in the future. I look forward to seeing lots of photos. I'm envious and wish I could have another start at a garden because there are so many things I'd do differently, though I'd grow lots of the same roses because they've proven to be good plants over the years. Diane

Pink rose thank you. I have grown Beverly for 3 years and she is an upright small plant here so far, she also black spots. I bought 10 plum perfects around 4 years ago and they grew backwards never growing over 2 feet tall ( I just shoveled pruned them all). I have not tried wedding bells so I’ll add it to my list.

Vapor thank you I have not grown any of the ones on your list. Are those doing well for you? I like to try what does well for you because you have very high blackspot pressure also. I am adding them to my list to research.

Ohhh Fig thank you. I actually was wondering about the teas. I also thought they may have the shape I need but was concerned about their hardiness in our zone 7. The only tea I tried (forgot the name) just kept dying back to the ground every year until I gave up. When you have time (no hurry) could you please share a list of teas that have done well for you? Rosette Delizy is glorious and just what I had in mind.

Sheila I love all these teas. I am hopping they will be the answer to what I need. Hopefully I can get some good ideas from John regarding what does well around here since we should have pretty similar conditions. In my north Alabama area maybe due to the altitude we get into the single digits very frequently during the winters and it isn’t rare to go down as low as 2 or 0 degrees once a year, that has always made stay away from the teas even when I adore their beautiful blooms and grace.

Diane seeing your roses give me such joy, I love them all. I am such a huge fan of the Austin’s even tho they get a lot of blackspot here that I keep trying every single one I can get my hands on. From all the ones I have tried Teasing Georgia and Bathsheba have very good disease resistance and I am growing them successfully no spray. I have preordered Bring me sunshine can’t wait to see how it does here. I have always loved your Golden celebration and wish it did well here but it gets lots of blackspot. I just left my AL at the other garden because it also got lots of blackspot. I am adding Love song, Abbaye de Cluny and Royal Bonica to my list. I think I have looked into Royal Bonica before and it isn’t something I could find to purchase but I can try again.

I can’t wait to have a new garden and be able to start over. Building a new home around here seems to take a long time( My friend is going on two years now and not close to finishing). We are in the getting a builder stage so it may be a while, but I am planning on making the best of the waiting time by collecting roses and growing them in pots so I can be ready. Are you making any changes to your garden this spring? Adding any new roses?

Dianela, I'm in Z7a, half a zone colder than you, and I grow several teas, quite successfully. Among the best are Rosette Delizy, Mons. Tillier, Mrs B.R. Cant, Lady Hillingdon. I could name more, and most generally fare just fine through winter. It's only the Spring freezes, after the roses start new growth, that are set backs. But most of my teas shrug it off and in a month's time you'd never know they'd been frostbit. As a matter of fact, Mons. Tillier has grown unprotected in a 25-ish gallon pot, in a terrible western exposure, for over 10 years. I've meant for *years* to plant him, but he seems to actually enjoy being exposed. He's a perverted exhibitionist at heart, I suppose, lol.

I did lose some cane tips last winter, but we had that weird freeze at Christmas. It got down to 4F, with sustained winds of 20-25 mph for two days. I actually think it was the desiccation from the wind that did the damage. With the ground frozen, the wind just sucked the water right out of the roses.

Dianela, I am so excited for you . New house, new gardens to plan. Will you have more space for gardens at your new home? Are you moving any roses with you when the time is right?

Thank you very much Fig, I think it is time for me to try some Teas =). I absolutely love all the ones you mentioned.

Kristine Thank you very much. I am very excited to hopefully have new gardens in a couple of years. We just managed to sell our original house and are in the very initial stages of the house building planning so not a single grain of dirt has actually been moved, but hopefully we can start in the spring. We just got power on the new property and don't have water yet except by the road but also hopefully soon. It is a rural property so I will be starting from zero which is nice, and I will have lots of space for roses. My plan is to not move any roses, but make cuttings of the ones I love like Flamenco rosita and Peggy Martin. I ordered Mel's heritage and others from Paul Barden and will keep them in pots until they can be planted. I am excited about the prospects of building a forever home.

My first plants at this property were the roses awakening and Laguna, but they haven't been able to grow even one inch because the deer keep them pruned to the ground. I will have to build an enclosed garden it seems. My latest effort is this row of Autum lily encore azaleas. =) They haven't been eaten yet after 4 days.

Dianela, oh, boy, the rose potential above is incredible, but, yes, you will need a fence to keep the deer out, or maybe a wall. I do have years of experience in dealing with those varmints under my belt. Until things are more developed, can you install some kind of deer barrier for your Laguna and Awakening? Repellent and predator urine won't cut it in this situation. And forget about soaps and other ineffective stuff. As far as changes here, last winter the voles struck and took out my last Kordes rose, a special one to me I'd grown for many years. That was Caramel Antique, a former florist rose that I'll not be able to replace. The voles had a little city built in one of my back beds, and killed a large Olivia Rose and a couple of Apricot Drifts. They were in the process of killing a Love Song, but didn't succeed, and that rose rebounded beautifully. To replace Caramel Antique, I've started growing Double Easy Orange, a Carruth rose, which I call Orange Dude. It's one of the best little roses I've grown in the last decades. I am growing a second Rouge Royale in Olivia's old spot. I'd recommend Rouge Royale to you, but as you know, it's a dark red. I have several other red/wine roses that are outstanding, I think, but some are Austins, and some are, well, red, which you aren't interested in, I believe. Here's Orange Dude, which I'm sure you've seen in one of my pics. And thank you so much for your comments. I'm sorry Golden Cel won't be joining your garden, darn it, but your are going to have one heck of a garden. Anywhere near Jasper, AL? Best of luck on the huge job ahead, but I know you're up to it. Diane PS. Do you grow penstemon? I find no varmints, including deer, will touch it. My kind of plant.

dianela, my first thought was Teas as well, but I wondered about the hardiness. Marie van Houtte is huge in my garden, about 8' high and 15' wide. Monsieur Tillier grew 9' high and 15' wide in 3 years. It was rather frightening! I've never seen a large Lady Hillingdon. The ones I've seen have only been about 6' by 4'. Another rose that grew huge for me here is the Kordes rose Summer Memories. It was around 6' high and 10' wide in 2 or 3 years. Would probably have got bigger if I'd let it. A fellow in Tasmania (much colder than here) grows it and it's huge for him as well. Thorny beast though. But that might deter the deer!

Good luck with your new garden. I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun.

How about tea noisettes? These are super healthy for me. Mostly they need well-drained soil and enough sunshine. They handle dry spells that happen here very well without much supplemental water. Even if you were willing to spray, I don't know how you'd be able to do it on a regular basis once these roses gain some size.

Crepescule is self-supporting for me and a generous bloomer. I started to grow Reve d'Or that way but I think I may add an arbor to try to tame it a bit. These roses and other tea noisettes can get really big, though. I don't know if you want a monster rose.

I guess with more property comes more critters and the challenge of not allowing them to turn your garden in to their buffet. Beautiful piece of proprrty. What to start from scratch and get everything wxactly where you want it. Im thinking irrigation

, Diane, freedom gardens carries Carmel antique from time to time...... Gold blush which I suggested above is a mocha hybrid moscheta. All of the roses I suggested are excellent in my yd. Gold blush has received some black spot but it is located On the north side of a tall brick wall so I cut it some slack. It was outstanding for black spot when it was in a pot. This is a very bigger rose. Vigorous

Vapor, thanks for the tip about Caramel Antique (Caramel Antike Freelander) at Freedom Gardens. I'm wondering if their rose is the more common Caramel Fairytale (Caramella)? These names are so confusing and Kordes is one of the worst for using names over and over with only a little variation. I've never been to Freedom Gardens' website. Are there photos of the roses and descriptions? I guess I should check it out myself. Thanks again. Diane

Late and lamented Caramel Antique--huge blooms, long vase life.

He has both. Best to call. Che k website for current availability and HMF for 1200 varieties, not all of which are available. I keep that but sometimes plants die and there are probably1000 varieties maybe not yet added.

Diane I hate that you lost your cara Caramel Antique and hope you can replace it. I have looked at the more comoon kordes from palatine that is also pretty but definetly not as pretty as the rarer caramel Antique. I really like your Orange Dude and intend to try it as soon as I can because the peach/orange color range is one of my new favorites. My new place will be probably within 2 to 3 hours from Jasper so not too far, if you ever come this way let me know so we can have a get together.

Dianela, oh, goodie, another orange/peach fan. Have you looked at Amour de Molene, soon available from Palatine? I wish I could get that one, but don't have space for three roses, which is their minimum order. I'm nor sure Jackson & Perkins will carry Orange Dude next year, and they were the only sellers to offer it. I've heard mixed messages, and want to email J&P about how disappointed I am with their dumb decision. I'd like to grow a second Orange Dude. I may end up with Bring Me Sunshine if Edwards here in Boise carries it. I wish BMS were more orange, though. Back to Caramel Antique--thanks for your sympathies, and I hope if you give it a try, you have good luck. It's a bit challenging, and I think needs to be grafted. I'm not sure Freedom Gardens sells any grafted roses. CA is certainly a unique rose, really eye popping, and supposedly lasts 12 days in a vase. I will not vouch for that. Thank you for the invitation. I wish I could return to the South for a long visit, but at my age, I've pretty much through traveling. I'm newly 78--giant ugh. How did I get to be so old? I hope your family is doing well, especially your son, who is probably an active, very cute toddler by now. Diane

Caramel Antique looks like it's prettier than Caramel Fairy Tale. I like CFT for vigor and it blooms well..it can be quite pretty but I think has fewer petals than CA. It stays healthy usually but can get a smutty look to the leaves later in summer.

If I see Orange Dude I'm going to buy it.

I think it's great, Dianela, that you might try teas again. I'm in zone 7a, NC, and have good luck with some teas, Chinas, and Noisettes. It can get down to 4 degrees here and we sometimes have weeks long freezes. I lost some teas to cold....Lady Hillingdon, Papa Gontier, Wm R Smith, but most do fine. They are among the best repeaters and are healthier than most. Some teas that get big and do well for me:

Madame Lombard..the biggest

Mrs. B.R. Cant big

Rainbow

Madame Berkeley ...tolerates some shade

Madame Antoine Mari

Monsieur Tillier mine got RRD but before that it was very reliable and strong

Souvenir d'Elise Vardon blooming well right now after 23 degree freeze and several months of drought.

I think someone who has a lot of space can grow teas to perfection as they might look better uncrowded. Chinas are just about as good such as Old Blush, Cramoisi Superieur, Le Vesuve.

A rose which is new to me but promises to get big and so far stays healthy and repeats very well and is very sweetly fragrant is St. Ethelburga. Got mine on multiflora from Hortico.

Cinderella is very large and healthy here . Delbards Souvenir de Louis Amade, Soeur Emanuelle, and La Rose de Molinard are vigorous and healthy.

I second Augusta Louise..to me it has it all. It's a great repeater.

Among Austins I think The Generous Gardener is usually pretty healthy though I do spray.

Paul Barden's Oshun is new to me but so far is very healthy and has very fragrant big gorgeous apricot blooms. It is a seedling of Abe Darby but is much more bs resistant.

I would consider Charles de MIlls and Cardinal de Richelieu too. If you have a lot of space you might have plenty of time to refine your choices.

Thank you Erasmus. I am so excited to see that others have had luck with some of the teas and chinas. I am going to write all these down and start looking for sources. It seems Between the antique rose emporium, a reverence for roses and Petals from the past I can get a good start.

I am glad you mentioned Charles’s de Mills. I just got Marianne, Charles’s de Mills and Guislaine de Feligonde from Paul Barden which I am hopping will do great. I got Tuscany superb from heirloom and I am impressed how well it has done no spray. Oshun is now on my list.

Diane I remember that you have very determined deer to deal with at your property. I am going to look into fencing an area for some protection. We also want to get a dog so maybe that will help. Amour de Molene looks perfect to me and definitely on my list to try. I bought Peach Melba, Vulcano and Meteor in the orangy color range last year and they have done fantastic. Looking forward to trying new ones.

Karen I definitely like the tea noisettes also and Crepuscule has crossed my mind several times but I didn’t realize it could be self supporting. My soil is concrete non draining clay but I try to amend a lot of times for my roses.

Kristine yes I love having the space for sure to be able to garden but it definitely like everything has its challenges. Not only the deer trespass but we have random neighbors riding their four wheelers and stuff around our property without permission. I am hopping once we are there all the time they can be more considerate.

What about 'Blossomtime'? I think it would look stunning grown as a huge mound!

Rosy lady I just left 3 blossom times behind at my original garden. While I love it and wouldn’t hesitate to grow it again it never grew much here. Lanky and 5 feet tall max. maybe it didnt like my clay

That's too bad! But I'm glad to hear it can stay small because I'm trying to keep it on a small obelisk and I don't want it to turn into a monster. Your picture is lovely...but yes, not a large mountding shrub.

Rosylady If it behaves in your location like here it will be perfect for the obelisk. I did minimal pruning on mine the last 6 years. The foliage here is very clean and the blooms lovely, I can’t wait to see yours.

I know I made this post looking for alternatives because I don’t want to have a garden full of only 3 varieties, but flamenco never stops surprising me.

We have had several nights around 29 degrees this year already.

Look at her foliage

I only wish she had a sport or two. I prefer a more medium pink to her bright dark pink. She is still my absolute best rose.

I would not completely give up on ballerina although maybe not in the best spot. Mine has behave differently depending where she has been placed. She might be a good 1 under the eaves for the rain does not count on her constantly. I have mine Under the bow of a spruce and she no longer black spots at all. She used to be terrible in her. Can I have all those team roses that do terribly in Ignore. I have also seen roses that did terribly in my yd do fantastically in my friends garden That I planted and he only lived a few miles away. His garden gets much better son.

dianela, I first 'saw' Flamenco Rosita in lilyfinch's previous garden and wished it was available here. It made a wonderful, mounding shrub in her garden. Perhaps a sport will appear on your bush! I've grown Crepescule in a couple of gardens as a free-standing shrub.