Everyone wants to stay within the existing exterior walls, and sometimes that can work. Other times, adding a bit of space can make an idea work.

I'm not suggesting this as a perfect plan -- just something to consider.

Ah I would love to bump it out to make it wider, but there are some external basement stairs behind that kitchen/dining area that won't allow it :( The long/narrowness of the backside of our colonial style house limits our options a bit!

I vaguely remember this floor plan. Did you use a different screen name earlier?

Put a link to your first thread on this kitchen and layout......? I believe I had some comments...

I didn’t change my screen name but I did post about this about a year and a half ago when we first started figuring this out. Now we have a better layout pic and design!

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6348043/need-ideas-for-kitchen-expansion-to-the-dining-room

Wow that is a loooong run of cabinets. Is that just a bay window or is it a "bay" in the house? That could open up a whole different idea.

My first thought is to shift where you are working. And do a massive island. Change the doorway into the dining room and eliminate the current pantry. The breakfast area can be a casual seating and a bev bar to help fill the space.

My second thought, only if the bay window can be closed, is to make a large walk in pantry in the current dining room

It is hard to layout a long room. It will take a few tries so it doesn't wind up looking like a giant wall of cabinets.

Do you need a formal dining room? If not , you could go a bit further. Put the dining room table in the breakfast nook area, slide the kitchen over, add a shower to the powder room and make the living room into a first floor bedroom.

Just some thoughts...

Good luck!

@debbiwashburn That is indeed a bay window with a bench seat, which isn’t too costly to update to a flat window of the same size but is more costly to close. Also, the wall between the current living/dining is structural so can be opened to an extent, but not totally removed.

I really like the idea of having some casual maybe bistro style seating in the nook area! Esp bc it overlooks the porch, which is kind of a pass thru window when we want it to be for entertaining.

How big/wide of an island with seating do you think could fit? We have 3 kids, so 3-5 seats would be awesome. It feels like a lot of eating spaces next to each other but we actually use them all. Island for quick breakfast, table for dinner, porch table when it’s nice out, and dining table for extended family dinners!

You should… not work with that designer any more.
Just some ideas here for reusing the space.

Yes i was thinking something like debbi or emilyam. with your designer’s layout you have a narrow 2ft island with no room for seats, which i thought was a main goal of the reno. not to mention the cook triangle being crammed into the old kitchen with miles of counter without purpose. why make a bigger kitchen if you aren’t going to use it?

Reoriented your plan drawing in case that is helpful. You are getting some great ideas. Good luck!

Some houses are not meant to have that big giant island. This is one of those. All of those long skinny kitchens just stretch out the kitchen space, cost the earth, and make the kitchen function WORSE. None of the expansion is worth doing the project. It ruins the house.

Since you were having trouble visualizing this in 2D, in addition to rotating the cabinet designer's layout like others did, I thought I would superimpose it onto the floor plan so you can see how linear, how long, and how inefficient it is:

Though if you needed a commercial baking prep space, the entire bay window zone on the left might make more sense (note your bay window will need replaced as it sits too low). It seems to me undertaking such a transformative kitchen misses out on bringing in amenities and functions that such a large kitchen is expected to have - like more Pantry space, better/more function of cabinets for each zones, proportional/size of appliances, or cleaning up circulation crossovers or how this kitchen relates to the whole house. Yet I don't think you have stated those goals, so I question even extending the Kitchen into the old Dining Room. One of the disadvantages of using only a cabinet designer misses out on a lot of pertinent design info to help understand the overall concept, so I also show:

- What appears to be an existing bifold Pantry (from last thread's photos) that the cabinet designer left in. The Beverage base cabinets next to it are 21" depth to align with the Pantry/soffit, where there is some messiness with that soffit where it connects over the refrigerator. And if the demo'd wall needs a beam then that could bisect your island visually. Also the angled bulkhead at the ceiling next to the Family Room is shown.

- A 6-seat 42"x78" table converts the Living to a Dining Room. Eliminating the Living allows no direct physical or visual path to a visitor's seating area (then would only be the rear Family Room far far away).

- Island overhang with stools shown as you said you desired that.

- Note the cabinet designer did show the counter slab butts - I count 10 slabs.

Sometimes you have to place the plans adjacent to one another to see what is proposed.

My initial reaction is that there are way too many cabinets for a home this size. Cabinets are not necessarily the most efficient way to store kitchen items and groceries. Is the bay window being replaced as it's a different size on the plan?

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THANK you for all your suggestions and feedback. I know our style house isn't necessarily meant to have that space opened up, but....

@BeverlyFLADeziner we have no plans to replace the bay window at this time, not sure why the sizing is off. Now that you put this adjacent to each other, that really does help visualize the space and what it could be! Thank you. Why are cabinets not a good way to maximize storage?

@3onthetree WOW how did you superimpose that? That is so helpful. I actually didn't notice in the design that he left the bifold pantry in there - we def don't want that! I'm looking for pantry style cabinets somewhere, not necessarily right there. (Yes, this cabinet designer wasn't the greatest.) I understand the points you're making as far as goals - we do have all those goals as well, esp storage/pantry space. Could that left hand wall be a wall of Pantry style cabinets?

Ok so below is the design I got for our existing footprint, again using a cabinet designer. It's not exciting, and feels cramped.

And here is what I would change in the design with knocking down the wall. Does it still feel like a too long, narrow space that isn't used efficiently? I really want to get island seating in, without it feeling cramped. It feels too cramped in our existing footprint.

Yes, that’s the exact design that we’re telling you is too long, narrow, and inefficient.

Let’s see a picture of this bay window, please (because it’s driving this bad design).

A 200K kitchen is out of scale with this house. THAT is the issue. Along with the disproportionate kitchen that is the result of trying too hard.

The kitchen you want, fits into a completely different house.

@emilyam819 I'm not at home currently, but here's a pic I found of the culprit bay window in our current dining room space (which we do not use as a dining room!)

@kimberli what do you think of the design in the existing kitchen footprint?

It is not that costly to close a window vs making a smaller window - you still have to do siding and stud work. I think that huge walk in pantry could be worth it. Plus you won't be ordering as many cabinets so that will offset some costs. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't going to impact the budget that much

The island can be 10 ft or even longer ( HOWEVER you will have a seam and need to get book matched slabs of material.

The design posted for the existing foot print isn't good either.

I still vote for an out the back addition. Steps may be moved.

You will get something that looks original and functions well instead of look at our new kitchen -- nothing really fits, but it's all new!

If you want island seating you can’t put any cabs/counter on the wall opposite the window wall - there just isn’t depth for this. so none of the current options work particularly well. i like the current penninsula design better than the new one without wall removal. where do you eat dinner now?

I had a quiet day today and tried an idea that popped in my head.

This plan changes the bay window to match the size of the other kitchen window, does not move the dining room opening and gives you a big pantry and island. Because of how it is broken up, it doesn't feel so cabinet heavy or as narrow. IMO

Th pantry is about 70" on the inside. You could make it about 10" narrower and add that dimension to the right of the ref.

Just a thought.

Good luck

@debbi this is such a great design!! I absolutely love it. Thank you so much for doing this! It's basically exactly what we were looking for. I will talk to the contractor about what it takes to close up the bay window. We get a lot of light in that side of the house, so we might make both kitchen windows bigger. How wide is the island in this design, and clearance to the wall?

@debbi I showed my husband what you came up with last night, and he said this was exactly what he was picturing but couldn’t articulate! No other designer got it. Thank you! We love it.

200K is easily in the rear view mirror with all of that is going to be your biggest issue. Plus, math doesn’t lie. Renderings do.

@zumi I’m not sure what you’re getting at or trying to say?

I think they are trying to tell you how expensive this might be. I disagree and agree. Depending on where you live and the materials you choose, you could be up that high. You could also be half that amount. Who's to say. That of course is your business. You need to get this quoted so you know whether it would fit in your budget or not.

A rough idea for this plan - 25 -40 K for cabinets, 8-10 k for tops, 10 - 20k for appliances, 3-4 k misc. To this you need to add flooring, the windows, door and installations of it all. But getting more accurate quotes is the best thing to do.

So yes, you could easily get to 200K. I have my customers shop 2 ways - get quotes on the fancier items they may want and then something less expensive that they would still be very happy with. That way you can flex where needed to make it all fit your budget.

Good luck!

The size of Kitchen to Family Room is out of proportion, considering you only have the 1 space (no Living Room now). The cost put into the house for the current iteration of Kitchen doesn't match the still circuitous pathway to the Family Room, the extended distance to outdoor living, nor the untouched MudRoom in expectations of what one would see with such a sea change in the Kitchen.

And I think there's still quite a bit of open dead space between the Breakfast area, and soffits from plumbing/HVAC above that might affect a pretty view of a rendering.

It is easy to see that you want a much larger house, with a much bigger kitchen. And that is what you should do. Spend the extra 250K that this renovation would cost and buy that bigger house that already has the bigger kitchen. With no 9 months of dust and construction to create something that does not even fit the house.

@monique We do not want a larger house, we love our house. But we do want a bigger more functional kitchen for a fam of 5 plus extended family over a lot. It's tight the way it is, we HATE the peninsula, and the dining room and living room are barely used. Why not use some of that space for a nicer kitchen?

@3onthetree I'm not sure what you mean about the circuitous path to the family room? It would be the same path, and the distance to the outdoor space would only be a few more feet. We do plan on reno'ing the mudroom with the same cabinetry so it flows.

@Debbi Washburn - do you know how I can get similar renderings you provided with more detailed measurements? Can I work with you directly for something like this, or do you know of anyone in the northern VA area?

Appreciate all the comments (even the critiques!)

some thoughts on this layout

See youtube video below

https://youtu.be/cqQm2vFYmKM

If you are going to have seating, be careful of your aisle widths. While 48" is good for a work aisle with no seating and more than one person working in the Kitchen, if there is also seating, I strongly recommend 60". 48" is not wide enough for someone working in the Kitchen while someone else is sitting in the aisle.

I've had a lot of experience with a table (and island seating) in a Kitchen and not enough aisle space -- you grow to hate it over time!

In case anyone is interested in after pics, we're done! We LOVE the design and space, and it's super functional for our family of 5. We got some hate on here for the design, but absolutely love it. We did a walk-around pantry in front of the bay window, and it's amazing! We have the bay window full of plants/herbs because we get great light there! This turned out even better than we expected, and the back of the house does not feel too long at all. It's perfect! We finished in 2.5 months and within budget! I hope this post helps someone else!

Mudroom from garage

New living/dining room

New stairs

New door

Wonderful job. Looks lovely. I would remove sofa. It’s a dining room now. Add a buffet or hutch and Thats it.

That looks fantastic! Great job!

Enjoy!!