If I am reading your old and new floor plan correctly, you are moving the master bedroom from somewhere else to the floor where your kitchen/living room is now.

You are therefore creating an additional bedroom.

You also said that the dining table was "expected" for this property. It doesn't look like there is room for it with an island in the kitchen.

For me, that means that you need to ask yourself which thing is least important to you:

1. Additional bedroom / New master on this level.

2. Island in the kitchen.

3. Dining table inside.

Whichever item is least important needs to go.

Unless you move the living area to wherever the old master was....

It’s a luxury property, so I feel like a kitchen table is expected even with an island, but we can eat outside year-round too.

Are you renting this property out or flipping it? If not, then design it not for what is expected but for how you will actually live. Using the best view for the bedroom instead of for living space already seems like you are not concerned with how others would use the space, so don't concern yourself with it in regard to a table either.

Your architectural drawing is very confusing. And I don't get how it lines up with your pics. Is the area that says living room actually where you are putting the main bedroom? Are you chopping up open areas that let in lots of light by enclosing them with bedroom walls?

The living room sofas stay the same as in the first layout to keep the view and we will add the kitchen to the back of the room. They basically have two living rooms set up in the current living room space which doesn't make sense to me. What do you think of the new layout? I spend a lot of time in the kitchen and love it being close to the living room. But where can we squeeze in a small kitchen table?

The added new master bed and bath will make it a total of 4 bedrooms and a lift bunk room (3 twins), 3.5 baths. All the bedrooms are on the ground floor with ocean views but the upstairs master will have even a better view. The old living room space is roughhly 15 x 24 which is huge. So making it a combo kitchen and living room seems ideal if we could squeeze in a kitchen table it would be ideal.

15' x 24' isn't really that big for two rooms like you have planned. The Family Room in our previous home was 14' x 23' and while it was a rather large FR, there is no way a Kitchen would have fit in it, especially one with an island!

Keep in mind that you will need approx 4' aisles around the island and then 4' to 5' b/w the island and sofa in the LR (assuming no doors on the "upper" wall b/w the Kitchen & LR). That doesn't give you a lot of space.

23'10" = 286"

- 25.5" Perimeter counters (sink side)

- 48" aisle b/w island and sink wall counter

- 72" island (3 seats need 72", 24"/seat)

- 48" aisle b/w island and sofa

=======

92.5" left over

that's only 7' 8.5" for the Living Room. Is that really enough space?

FYI...the original plan is impossible to read - can you post a larger and clearer picture?

The other direction is even worse:

15'7-11/16" = 187.6875"

- 27"D range

- 48" aisle b/w range and island counter

- 40.5"D island (minimum depth for counter-height seating)

- 54" W aisle b/c you have counter and a major appliance behind the seats)

- 32"D counter-depth refrigerator

======

-13.8125 over what you actually have

Minimum recommended overhang for counter-height seating is 15". So, the island is:

1.5" counter overhang on the range side + 24" cabinet boxes + 15" counter overhang = 40.5" (This is without a finished flat end panel or decorative door panel on the backs of the island cabinets. Add 1" for a decorative door panel or finished end panel.)

Note that aisles are measured to/from the items sticking out into the aisle the farthest - counter overhangs, appliance handles, etc. They are not measured to/from cabinets. Cabinet boxes are 24"D and that's all that most s/w used by cabinet salespeople "see". The measurement does not include the doors/door panels (~1" more) or the counter overhang (~1.5" beyond the cabinet box).

So, a perimeter run is at least 25.5" deep and that's only if no appliance, etc., is sticking even father out into the aisle.

Ranges are approx 27"D

Counter-depth refrigerators are 32" to 33" deep when accounting for doors, handles, and the required air clearance behind them. The only part of a counter-depth refrigerator that is "counter-depth" is the refrigerator box. The doors & handles must stick out past all items adjacent to them - counters, cabinets, walls, etc.

If you're getting a true built-in, fully-integrated refrigerator, then 25" to 27" is probably the depth.

I spend no time in the master bedroom, other than at night, to sleep. Views don't matter much when you are sleeping! I want views and extra space in my living areas.

You said the bedrooms are downstairs.

What is upstairs? A loft? Could that be closed up to become a master suite?

It seems in your new plan you have plenty of counter space for cooking. You could forgo an island and put the dining table there or do the banquette connected to the island as in your pictures. I would orient a 6’ island the other way, which would allow for a nice size banquette and chairs.

I looked up the listing. Looks like a lot of deferred maintenance. Before you start moving rooms, you might want to get a bid for all the structural maintenance. The photos suggest you might need all new windows and exterior doors. I think you will find water damage inside, specially near the door areas. Plus new bathrooms and kitchen. Updating/repairing might be all you want to do if only looking at it as a 5-8 year investment.

I don't know if this is possible or not as I don't have all the information needed but I would remove the two walls in the dining room, add some windows if there aren't any (cannot see on the plans) and make that area the living room, have a peninsula in the kitchen with the dining room at the end by the windows.

To access the bathroom from the bedroom install pocket doors, they won't take up space with the swing.

15 x 24 is not a large living space for a 4 bedroom home. Trying to cram kitchen, living, and dining into a space that size makes no sense. Especially in a vacation property where I would think that people would want to spend a lot more time in the communal space than in the bedrooms.

Agree^^^

Here is an idea if you could steal the space marked in red.

Chiming in to agree with marilyncb. Look at the living room you've drawn in your new plan. 4 bedrooms means at least 4 people, but probably more. You only have comfy seating for 3 adults max. Not as many people as can sleep in the house. Let alone a comfy space to invite friends or neighbors over for an evening. Nothing is luxury about such a cramped living space.

If you'd be able to take down the 2 walls as shown on the plan above, this gives an idea of what could be the view of the room once it's open.

Four beds??? Nope. This living space is not large enough. Can you say more about whether this is going to be an investment, rental, for your family and how large your family is. Maybe you are active, outside all hours of the day, eat most meals out, and then crash? If that is your MO then this might work. But otherwise, you need to really rethink how you are using this space.

The app won't let me respond to each person. Thank you for all the imput and the visuals! Like my profile handle says, I have five kids but not sure how often everyone will all be there together but it's possible for sleeping.

What programs are you all using so fast? I just started using Sketchup for the layout and it's painful!

More thoughts to consider is the county probably won't allow us to build or extend the balcony called the "lanai" which is a super bummer. We can try but the architect already said it's highly doubtful and expensive. It's a small balacony as is and I wish the orginal architect would have put it all the way down to the living room so we could do a sliding glass wall!

All the three bedrooms (the loft has 3 beds) are downstairs on the ground level and all have ocean views. There is a mezzanine level sun room for a game table and reading area up the stairs from the lanai (the dining table there would be werid right?) which then goes up again to a loft that has 3 twin beds which doesn't have a bathroom. The kids have to go down three levels for a bath or go potty in the half bath by the front door.

I've done a bunch of AI and it never gets it exactly right but gives me an idea. I love an open kitchen versus the current 7'8"' x 15' 6" galley kitchen. I also love the idea of waking up to the elevated 2nd floor view for the master bedroom. But if it won't work, I will concede!

Open to flipping rooms around. Let me know if I should post more photos. I really really appreciate this input!

Game room, sun room, reading room

Please post a fully-measured layout of the spaces. Not just overall measurements, ALL measurements.

See the Featured Answer in the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread. It explains what we need. See the sample of a fully-measured layout below.

Also, could you please post a better picture of the current layout. It's too small and too blurry to read.

😕

So this why we ask to see the actual ”as is” layout measurements. Buehl showed how to provide them above in the “New to Kitchen” link.

It is my own fault for jumping the gun and posting an idea before having all that info.

You have big potential here! This is an amazing home! Is it Hawaii?

The thing is, you need to provide the info as asked for in the “New to Kitchens” to receive the best feedback.

I just threw out something fast. But, I see now that my attempt at a kitchen layout was based on trying to work with an existing window under where your proposed kitchen sink was going.

ETA: I also thought it was a low window below counter height for some reason! Yikes, sorry!

I now realize that there is no window there. It is a solid wall and is where the big framed quilted art is hung. The only window on that wall is the skinny tall one in the upper left corner on the proposed layout.

Yes, so as you can see by my mistake, the more information and photos of what is existing you provide, the better we can understand and help! 💗

We only have pdf of the 1989 orginal plans and hired out to get the originals redrawn. So I will post those. There is so much potential on this house! Daunting but exciting! So thankful for the ideas and help here refining the vision so we can execute it quickly!

The proposed plans are not good. The size of the Living Room is too small for how the concept of the condo was conceived, which looks like cannot, or will be very difficult, for that original conception to be changed successfully. This alone should be enough to completely rethink what you'd like to do with this project.

If I don't add a master bedroom and bathroom and keep it on the ground level. Does everyone agree that moving the kitchen makes sense with a regular dining table? Maybe moving the living room into the old dining room? What would the old kitchen be a good use of luxury space?

The existing Great Rm "block" compared to the existing Kitchen/Dining "block" are about equal, both with odd footprints. So I don't know if swapping them improves anything. The Great Rm is probably placed as is to be a better view to the open ocean rather than the inlet. But I don't think you can fit a desired-size Kitchen, full size Dining, and appropriate Great Room size all together in either "block."

The saving grace might be the mezzanine floor and loft area. If those would be dedicated to additional Great Room space functions, then a smaller main Great Room might be acceptable. But I see a bed/armoire on the mezzanine and you say the loft has 3 beds. Neither of them are private.

One thing to consider, and it happens a lot on Houzz which is a niche site. This may not be received well knowing the audience here, but I do notice it to be a commonality. Most houses gracing the pages here, say a McMansion in suburban TX, are conceived to function that fits the lifestyle at a particular stage in their lives and for that location. Where kids sit at the island for a snack after soccer practice. The SAHM makes all the meals and slaves away in the Kitchen all day. Other times slaving away at Laundry. So the designs focus on a huge kitchen, with sink views, and lots of storage. Easy access to Laundry. Dream Mudrooms. Bedrooms as enclaves.

That is probably not the same lifestyle, even with the same family, that happens at a second vacation home, or even a permanent one on a tropical island. The kids aren't following their home schedule, and the SAHM is not slaving away all day. You don't need Costco level of backup supplies. Rooms are for sleeping only. The time is spent as a group or out of the house. So that means the same mindset you apply to your suburban house should not be equivalent in this vacation (and investment) home. Ultimately, that may free up opportunity to move things around, or see this house as it sits currently in a different frame of light.

Building on @3onthetree's excellent point--the big change I would make would be to open the kitchen to the dining room if structurally possible. Remove that pantry nook opposite the fridge, and put in an island that runs parallel to the fridge counter, or peninsula paralell to the cooktop counter--I can't read the dimensions well enough to decide which is best. One thing that people do in vacation homes is cluster in the kitchen and work together on food prep. (By which I mean, drink wine while one or two people cook.) With your living area so detached from the kitchen/dining area, you need a little more space for people to be in and around the kitchen, feeling connected socially to the cooks, having a small little chopping job to do, etc.

What I might do is convert the dining room to another small living room, and then put the dining table and one living-room seating arrangement in the living room. You still have a good space for the large group meals when needed. You have great cozy at both of the good view points, and the sonic separation for them makes them better for use--one seating area for conversations, one for nappers, say.

I am sorry if you mentioned it already, but will this be just a vacation home or your main residence?

3onthetree makes some good points about the lifestyle needs when vactioning in HI verses living at your main home. But if you will be staying for longer stretches at a time, or permanently, I can understand wanting to change the kitchen/dining room to be more spacious.

Regarding flipping the kitchen and dining with the living room location, the more I think about it, the more I think that might be a mistake. I understand what you mean about the existing LR being huge and having the two separate seating areas as odd. However, I don’t think it is odd, but I think maybe it is the old mismatched furniture with so many couches that is the main problem. I am sure if you hired an interior designer, they would make the great room function for TV and for enjoying the stunning view. My fear is that changing those room locations messes up the original architect’s vision and makes the opposite problem, that of the LR being too small instead of too big. Hope that makes sense.

I wasn’t going to post this idea because I am not a Pro and have no idea if this would even be possible. I was thinking that the walls separating the existing kitchen and dining nook are loading bearing, but I wondered if some of the wall could be removed. (Shoji screen for sure and pocket door)

Now if the whole wall could go that would be amazing! But even if you need to leave the main support posts/beams, it is possible to incorporate them in the design somehow. It wouldn’t hurt to have a certified kitchen designer, GC, architect, or structural engineer look at it.

My main goal was to get you the large open kitchen/dining and of course the island with seating that you prefer.

I could not find a great example, but here are some photos of islands that incorporate structural posts/columns.

Mcarroll16, I had a similar ideas as you with an island parrallel with the fridge wall. I also thought a peninsula could work, but worked on the island idea first since I knew the OP really wanted one. 🥰

Rebunky's kitchen/dining design is fantastic. If you ask what a "luxury" use of the space is, that kind of kitchen is it.

Shockingly when on vacation I still have to cook and clean and do laundry, just like at home. And in some cases with everyone in and out all day enjoying cabin life it’s more laundry and cooking and prep than at home. So whole a beautiful large kitchen maybe isn’t the most needed a purposefully useful kitchen, with ample storage, and laundry that is easy to navigate is crucial to mom having a decent time too. And dad can also cook and do laundry and would enjoy t just as much.

Wow, thanks for saying that Mcarroll16. You made my day! 💗

Just one caution -- be sure the aisles are wide enough in the Kitchen & Dining Room.

I'm not sure the space can support all of that with sufficient aisles. If this is a vacation rental (or even a permanent home with multiple adults and/or frequent visitors, be sure to wide aisles to accommodate more than one person working in the Kitchen. When we vacation as a group, we often have 3 or 4 people working in the Kitchen at one time, sometimes more. (That's in addition to the spectators with wine (or rum runners!))

You should have

• 48"W aisles b/w island and surrounding items (range, refrigerator, etc.)
• 60" b/w island and table
• 36" b/w table and window on the other three sides
• I think you may be about 2' shy of what you need for everything (assuming 42" deep table)

Other considerations:

• Have at least a 15-inch clear leg/knee overhang space to accommodate most sizes of guests (15" should accommodate people up to around 6', maybe a bit more if they have short legs)
• A 42"D table would be best to fit everyone's dishes, and serving dishes as well as room for everyone's legs - including tall or long-legged guests (under the table 😊)
• For table width/length, figure 24" to 30" per seat along the sides plus extra space on the ends to accommodate the legs of people on the end seats.

Honestly everyone has been so awesome to help chisel away at this with great renderings and ideas. I think @rebunky is on to something spectacular (amazing job) once we can verify with structural engineers.

Next is figuring out what company to replace every single door and window in this house that's dark bronze outside and hurricane/corrosion resistant.

Do the math first, please, b/f committing to anything.

@Buehl,

You are so on it! I am hanging my head in shame. I did the math for the kitchen area and it worked out for the 48” aisles. But then I just threw in the dining table at the last minute. I see now that it is not even close to scale! 😣 I should have known it was too good to be true!

@momof5jen,

I am sorry, but Buehl is right that the table won’t fit in my plan. I will think some more and if I come up with another idea, I will post it. But, I promise to do the math next time! 😂