Help to identify these two roses (pics)

last year

Hello, everybody!

These are two roses in my garden which, in terms of knowing what rose varieties I have growing there, is in a piteous state. I've lost my rose book!!! In any case, this bed in which these roses are growing was never adequately documented. I took pictures of these two that are currently in flower, and hope you can help me figure out what they are.

Rose 1:

This first rose looks like a shrub rose, rather puny in my garden, but looking like its mature habit would be to grow up and arch out. It is a bristly plant with bright green foliage and two-inch semi-double to double blooms, pink, with a moderate sweet scent with a touch of green apple. It's repeat flowering and sets small round orange or red hips. Here's another picture showing buds, hips and foliage.

I tend to buy older or old roses, not invariably, though, and this one is even more of a mystery than others currently unnamed. Anyway, thanks for any help.

Rose 2:

This puny specimen I suspect may be a Hybrid Perpetual, of which I have several in the garden, most of them not doing very well. Red new growth, mild fragrance, not the intense 'Mr. Lincoln'/'Etoile de Hollande' style of scent. Flower not too full. Here's another photo:

All right, folks, have at it.

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Comments (8)

jacqueline9CA
last year
Melissa - what jumped out at me immediately on the red one was an idea that it might be 'Dr. Huey'. Then I stopped to see if I could get my brain to tell me WHY it thought that. Turned out to be 2 things: 1) the very new leaves - the ones which are not still red, but are mostly green with a rim of red around the edges of each leaf. I remembered this from a Dr. Huey rootstock rose in our garden which kept coming up over and over again, despite all of our attempts to dig it up and/or kill it. 2) The other thought was that I seemed to remember you mentioning that it was almost impossible for you to get roses on their own roots. (However, I do not know what rootstock you do get them on, so this could be spurious). Just a thought -

Jackie
Melissa Northern Italy zone 8
Original Author
last year
Oh, someone wrote in! Jackie, thanks!

I'm afraid it's not the Doctor, though. It's not used as a rootstock in Europe as far as I know, and I've never ordered it. I'm not sure I've seen it offered for sale here, for that matter.

The first rose looks like it has Multiflora in its ancestry, rather strange for a gardener who claims that Multifloras don't generally grow well in her garden and so as a rule doesn't acquire them. As I say, it's a mystery. The second one could, I suppose, be some kind of a Hybrid Tea, but, again, I don't as a rule buy them (I would take a chance on 'Oklahoma' if I could find it), so I'm going for Hybrid Perpetual instead.
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roseseek
last year
@Melissa Northern Italy zone 8 your red rose does resemble an older dark red HT. It could be Oklahoma, Papa Meilland, Mr. Lincoln or one of those. They appear very similar as they all arose from the same cross from different breeders. Each time I see the pink one, it screams Simplicity to me, though surely it couldn't be.
Melissa Northern Italy zone 8
Original Author
last year
Many thanks for the suggestions, Kim, but I'd say, No. I'm not familiar with 'Simplicity', but the photos on HMF don't suggest my rose to me: there's the bristly character of its growth, and the flowers are smaller than those of 'Simplicity'. As for the red rose, I'd exclude your suggestions on the basis of my rose's relative lack of fragrance. The semi-double bloom might be owing to the plant's being so starved, but I have trouble imagining one of those red HTs so lacking in scent.

For what it's worth, my brain keeps telling me my first rose is 'Cornelia', which I know very well it's not. It's the suggestion of those cheery little pink blooms, but everything else is wrong.
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
last year
The pink one's blooms do look a bit larger than my Cornelia but I see a similarity too.
Melissa Northern Italy zone 8 thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
jacqueline9CA
11 months ago
Melissa - has your red rose made any other open blooms which you can show us?

Jackie
Melissa Northern Italy zone 8
Original Author
11 months ago
Jackie, it has kept on blooming a bit, but looking about the same as in these photos. It continues to have little to no fragrance.

Comtesse, if it's 'Princesse de Sagan', it's misnamed, because I never ordered that rose for this bed. Its leaves strike me as large for a Tea or China (I forget which the Princesse is). Thanks for the suggestion: I appreciate it when people share their ideas.