ASVInteriors, Thanks for your reply. This was my first poll, and I made a mistake and had to delete the old one and redo it. I copied your reply from the old poll and pasted it here -- Thank you.

ASVInteriors -- " I am pretty realistic budgeting with a 10-15% reserve but if the client starts to change mid point or upscale, I find myself having to point out the cost consequence . As Seinfeld once joked, how is it people go into a restaurant and order everything off the menu like kings, and then when they are presented with the bill they are astonished. "how did this happen?!!!! :-)

But seriously I consider it a big part of my job to keep on top of costs. In my own case of builds I confess not to being so good :-(. I love experimenting and trying new things.... "

Excellent topic! I voted under/on budget but that's after two learning experiences that went WAY over budget. Third time a charm, that and subsequent renos came in well under or just at budget.

The keys are to A-learn from other's 'learning experiences', and B-understand all budgets are to be considered 'estimated' and should include the tack on at least half again to the budget for every phase. (Proper application of B keeps the reno-new builder out of bankruptcy court. I'd laugh but it's not funny, I've seen it happen too many times).

For example, after the first disaster, er, reno over budget, I took several DIY classes at the local adult education centre. I hung on every word including those of my classmates recounting 'Don't do what I did' anecdotes.

I figured out after the second learning experience that adding $200 to a $400 budget for wallpaper (and similar additions for appliance budgets, floor covering budgets, etc) made ALL the difference. My motto quickly became 'Add half again to arrive with budget under!' because once I had A&B down, projects were looked at through non-rose coloured glasses, and thereby finished on time and at/under estimated budget.

This was the first time we did anything this big. The project went a little over budget because some unexpected damage was found on the outside wall. The former owner built the house himself and did not cover the outside wall completely with felt paper under the siding. The wood was just a crumbled mess and we never knew. The contractor leaned on the wall and his hand fell through. We ended up going over about $4000.

We just remodeled our kitchen. It was a midrange kitchen remodel at a low end cost because we did most of the work ourselves! Still waiting to reveal the finished product, but you can see our journey here: http://sylvanparklife.blogspot.com/search/label/kitchen

Ed, what do you count as over budget? That is, if we got a bid for a job and then decided to change some elements of the design and upgrade to some more expensive materials, fully informed what the added cost would be, does that count as over budget? I think it just means we readjusted our budget to allow for some entirely optional aesthetic upgrades mid-project, deciding they were well worth the cost. So I checked the "within the budget" box. Going over budget, to me, means being forced to go over budget for some reason outside your control. But maybe I'm just rationalizing.

Hi Ed,
A quick note about our experience: Brigitte and I consistently design between 70-90 kitchens/year (for over 34 years) and have designed thousands of kitchens.....We also design full structural including below-grade foundation plans.....We have 2 Chicagoland locations and a Michigan location which cover the Wisconsin to Indiana borders, N.W. Indiana and S.W. Michigan.....Anyway, we always have MAJOR budget conversations with our clients BEFORE ever going to contract....Even when we've established a clear itemized scope of work from a $$ standpoint, we still make sure they've allocated an additional 10%-15% for "D&D" (Dis & Dat!).....Take a peek at our b4/afters.....NONE of them exceeded the client's budget because of our above procedures.....Boils down to getting a really experienced and REPUTABLE designer/dealer that knows how to properly estimate a project.....and will stick with their quotes.....Hope this helps a bit!.....John & Brigitte

N

Hi Caroline, Congrats to you and Ty ! I also took over 7,000 photos (low resolution, VGA 640x480 to save space) of our remodel process. But no time for a blog ! :)

Hi feeny, Thanks for the feedback, and an excellent question. To give an extreme (contrived?) example, suppose the budget starts out at 10K, then, as the project continues, walls are opened and unforeseen repairs need to be done, and eventually it looks like another 10K is necessary, but there is no more money for now, and the project is put on hold, until some time later, say, a year later, when funding is available to finish the project. Now, the 20K is 100% more than the initial 10K budget, and a year extended, but some people can still consider that "within budget," even though all the repairs and the (temporary) insufficient funding were unexpected and "out of control" -- some people would still consider that "on budget". So I think it's a personal call. But for me, in the above thought experiment scenario, I would consider it 100% over budget and delayed -- that's another poll I'm curious about: "ahead of schedule", "on time," "delayed," "way late," or "suspended indefinitely", etc. :)

Hi Jon & Brigitte, Thanks for the feedback ! In your experience, have you heard of (horror) stories from your clients with other projects where the "Dis & Dat!" became an additional 100%, 200%, or over 300% of the initial estimates ? That's something I'm curious about, too. Thank you ! :)

Hi Mary Ann, Thank you for your feedback about your budget from this discussion --

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/no-more-pink-kitchen-dsvw-vd~734991

Mary Ann, "Our budget was $30,000. That included everything you see plus moving of wall behind stove 18" which made the half bath smaller, pocket door, new flush beam in ceiling since wall moved was load bearing. We did the demo and painting ourselves. Everything else was done by the contractor. He was real good about trying to keep everything under budget. But we did go over budget $4000, because unknown to us, the former owner who built the house did not cover the outside wall completely with felt paper, so for 21 years rain was getting behind the siding. and rotting the wood. Our contractor was leaning on the wall inside and fell through. The whole outside wall had to be replaced it was nothing but crumbled wood. We shopped around for the best deals on our appliances, all 3 cost $2800. Granite was $6600. American Woodwork cabinets were from Home Depot were $11,000, that was with their promotional discount that took off $6000. The contractor used his discount to buy the tile. Range hood and farm sink we bought on Ebay.
Hope that helps and good luck!"

LOL, Rinqreation, I've done renos like that. But it's actually easier to sit down every few months to create a prioritised plan with an estimated cost and how to save for it. Makes a difference between living with a torn-up kitchen/bath/living room for several years (ask me how I know this) and getting each project done on a more realistic schedule.

No need to ask, I understand ;)

Complete gut was 3 years ago. We kept the old kitchen, which will be our last project, because we need to save for that. First project was the bathroom, which could be paid with a part of the mortgage. Then the two bedrooms, new electrical wiring, ceilings and insulation throughout the house. Last summer we had new window frames installed with double glazing. And this winter our living room will finally be plastered. After that there will be a gazillion small things left to do, such as installing molding, painting doors, etc.

Hi rinqreation, Thanks for the feedback ! :)

I am currently updating two houses. One is about 30 years old, the other is 130+ years old. I have renovated, repaired and upgraded 15+ dwelling units (singles through 6-plexes) of varying ages, mostly the 1920s to 1940s, with a couple from the 1880s-90s.

I go into a project that touches or exposes plumbing, electrical or structural elements with two budgets and get two quotes in the same contract:

One is for the project the way we hope it will go, with no more than the usual hidden gotchas for the age of the building (10-30% for the unseen fixes that make the rest of the project work). The second budget is in case it turns into one of those projects where the contractor falls through the wall, they remove a roof to find it's 30% rotted, and the toilet falls through the rotted floor ... those things.

I make sure I have the money/credit for the worst case so we don't get stuck with a gutted kitchen for two years.

The contract has a contingency clause in case we uncover a disaster. As an example, one roof replacement contract had a contingency clause covering labor and materials if more than ___ of the sheathing boards needed to be replaced. An AC contract had a contingency clause covering the possibility that the existing circuit we were planning to use was FUBAR and a new one would be needed.

Most of the projects have come in on or slightly under budget and on schedule because I do extensive planning ahead of time, make sure the materials are on hand, and don't change my mind mid-project.

10% over budget which translates into about $70,000.00. It was well worth it in the end, as I spent it on incredible windows and some accent lighting.

This number is for the construction, only, and does not take into account landscaping costs.

Hi again, Ed.....

You always hear about those stories but we've never substantiated any.....See b4/after images attached.....This was a great young couple and they'd given a kitchen dealer approx. $20,000.00 down on cabinetry.....The tall double-oven cabinet you see (back is towards camera) was all they got..... The dealer closed up and took off with their money!.....They came to us and we finished the job as you see.....John & Brigitte

Sorry Ed,
Here are the images from last message.....John & Brigitte

Hi tsudhonimh, thanks for the feedback. Are the two houses and the other 15 dwellings your properties, or your clients' ?

Hi Judy, Congrats on your new windows! I hope you enjoy them for years to come. :)

Hi John & Brigitte, thanks for the story and photos. Wow, very bad luck for the young couple to lose 20K like that. But very good the kitchen was finished -- looks like a ton of work. In the 'Before' photo, the tall double-oven cabinet almost looks like it was photoshopped in! :)

Hi Ed,

You're right, it does.....We know it's for real because we took it when we were there for our first meeting.....John & Brigitte

Ed ... a combination of all the above. 5 have been mine, or mine/SO's.

Most of the renovating was as property manager for my sister/BIL, who dumped a load of money into a depressed housing market and picked off ones in historic districts that could be brought into the modern era and still have vintage charm, and a couple of ordinary but really profitable multi-family properties.

They were renovated for rental, not flipped, so we could improve in stages ... make it clean and serviceable, rent it out, upgrade between tenants, increase rent, repeat.

I didn't have a problem with contractors over installing things I bought - again, it was in the contract that I was responsible for fixture failure, they were responsible for installation quality. And I reassured them that the products were not going to be shoddy ones. They were mid to low-price range from good manufacturers, with good innards.

Hi tsudhonimh, thanks for the info! :)