I don't know much about gardening in Kansas but i know a little about gardening with bermuda grass.

I recommend Round-up, two or three applications a few weeks apart, before you start tilling or spading. In my experience tilling or spading patchy bermuda grass results in a lush, green stand of bermuda grass a few weeks later.

I don't know how well Round-up will work in November though. And be sure to just use the plain vanilla original Round-up. Some of the newer 'improved' formulas include things like preemergents that have no place in a soon to be vegetable garden.

When we expanded our garden, I tilled about six to eight inches deep and picked all of the grass,weeds and what not out. Then we each got our dandelion pickers out and got as much of all the root system out we could find,it will be everywhere. Then we did a final deep till over the entire area, laid a three inch layer of compost over the entire area,and an additional three to four inch layer of shredded leaves over the entire area and put it to bed for the winter. The next spring we used layers of newspaper and cardboard between the rows and had good success that year even without a soil test. With a soil test at the end of that year and more layers of compost and shredded leaves, this area is getting better every year. The shredded leaves get put on every winter even if that's all I do.

It depends a lot on the soil and future garden. Clay or sand? Raised beds or level ground? What do you plan to use to stop the grass from re-invading the patch? Tilling is unnecessary with loamy or sandy soil.

If it were me, and in the fact that I have limited information on where you are living and the environment...I would worry about the lawn seperately.

Build a raised bed or grow in containers. I am from Texas but a friend of mine is from Wyoming and she said her soil at her house sucks for gardening and you can't barely till because of rocks. I turned her on to container gardens and now she's hooked.

If you prefer a raised bed I would also opt to cover it with weed cloth.

There are lots of benefits to container/raised bed gardening. You can control the soil a lot better and you can control what your plants eat. Its just like computers. Trash in = trash out.

till it and cover with black plastic

I'm not worrying about the existing lawn. I mentioned it to explain what I have to start with. I am planning to till an extra foot or so on each side so I can keep the bermuda grass under control. I don't think any chemicals will kill the grass this late in the year. I think I'm just going to have to work up the soil, trying to remove as much as I can and deal with what survives next summer. The soil has a lot of clay in it, also limestone. I'm in central kansas, a fairly arid region about 18-20" of precipitation a year. Basically wet spring, hot dry summers. I'm planting directly in the soil, no raised beds.

December gardening in the mid west... hope the weather holds out for ya. I'm with keepitlow, till and cover with plastic. Add some kind of OM too if ya got it, leaves muni compost, whatever. From what i understand of bermuda, the tilling may just 'freshen up' to roots, so you're probably going to have to leave the plastic on the garden all next year. Cut holes for you plants, and let the sun bake the bermuda rootmass under the black plastic. Till and add OM (mix in a soil test if you're curious) next fall, and see what you come up with. You're correct, no herbacide will have any effect in this kind of weather. Good luck...

If you have clay, make sure you till in a good amount of OM when you till. Some P too perhaps. I would also lay down some sort of grass barrier at the beds edges. In my case, the cinder blocks of the raised beds also act as a barrier. If you do spend a year with black plastic, plant more vegetables that like the hot soil.

sven556:

Where in Kansas are you located? Since I live in Kansas, I was just curious.

I would remove as much of the bermuda as I could then til and rake out as much as possible. Then add alot of compost and wait til spring. With this nice fall we have had, you could do this over Thanksgiving weekend, if it isn't too wet! Chemicals won't do anything this time of year.

Jay

Jrslick, I live in Hays. What area are you from?

I'm not a fan of planting under plastic. Seems like the soil is about ruined under any plastic I've used. Do you guys pull it up and add vast amounts of organic matter each year? I'm thinking of working up the soil (taking out as much bermuda as I can) and adding any OM I have available and then next summer I'll have to work hard to keep the bermuda grass from taking over.

I live in Clay Center.

I don't plant into plastic. I tried one year and I didn't like the results. The bindweed grew underneath until it found a hole to grow out of and tried to kill my plants. Also, the production was the same on the plastic and not plastic beds. I was growing tomatoes in the beds.

I add lots of organic matter for our city composting site.

sven556/Jrslick
I'm right in between you, Salina. I don't know how big of an area your talking,but in my previous post we did a 10'x42' extension of our garden. My wife said that was as much of the back yard I could have, a final area of 22'x42'.
I wouldn't lay the plastic down this fall,as the freeze and the thaw of winter will help break down the dirt clods you'll have with your clay soil,not to mention you'll need all of the moisture you'll get through the winter to get deep in the soil so you'll get the full benefit of the plastic next spring and summer.
If you don't want to grow through the plastic, you could build your rows and put the plastic in between, then when the growing season is over you could water the rows deep then all you have to cover is the row it'self. We used multiple layers of newspaper covered with straw between our rows with good results.Go to your local newspaper and ask if they would sell you the butt rolls, I got approximately 250' for around $7. Start gathering cardboard from here on out and you could lay about five layers of newspaper and a layer of cardboard and you'll not have to worry about those areas. As far as a barrier between garden and yard, Orscheln farm and home sells 4'x8' pvc sheets in variable thicknesses. I cut them lengthways in one foot strips,took my spade and trenched it in with four inches above the ground to run the weedeater against.
I used to build rows every year and the spring rains would wash them to the center. I would build my rows at least twice each spring. I got lucky in that our local KOA campground tore out a ton of landscape timbers and they said I could have as many as I wanted. Now I just put a four inch layer of straw between the beds and I'm done.
If you have a Dillon's grocery and you shop there, ask for paper instead of plastic,those paper sacks are nice and thick and when you fold them up after you put your groceries away,they lay in the garden as a double layer real nice! Hope this helps!