I can't say, but I'll guess it was because they weren't yet old enough, assuming that they really were A.p. plants.

It is normal not to be able to readily see the spirals (there are 5) until the plant has 100+ leaves, and is about twelve-inches in diameter. Because there are 5 rows (ranks) of leaves, the eye jumps back and forth between these rows, and fails to see the spirals. When the plant is sufficiently large, the five ranks of leaves just seem to magically appear. Some say that the plant has not begun to spiral until then, but that is incorrect. It starts as soon as the seedling begins making leaves.

You can tell the direction of the spirals by looking at the keel on the back of the leaves. It will divide into two unequal parts moving towards the right or left when looking at the back of the leaves. This asymmetry is the cause of the spiral pattern. If the keel drifts to the right, making the right side smaller than the left, the plant will be a right spiral. If the keel moes to the left side, the plant will be a left spiral. You tell the direction of the spiral by pointing your thumb at the center. A right spiral will follow the fingers of the right hand, and a left spiral follows the left hand.

As for cost, they used to be very expensive, but they are being mass produced by tissue culture now, and the prices have fallen. $45 for a five gallon container (12-inch?) is about right for four years ago. Now it is worth about $20.

Brad

They certainly had over 100 leaves on the larger ones, and were a good 10" across! They were labellend A polyphylla, and had a slight spiral but nothing like I've seen.... it was very odd.

Brad this was at berkeley Hort who are expensive. Where have you seen a 5gal one for $20? I want one!

Yamagami's, a nursery in Cupertino, has big ones (huge) in those plastic half-barrels for $395. Just saying...in case you're in THAT market. I've seen some nice ones around the Bay Area for $14.95. That's what I paid about a year ago at that statuary place outside of Gilroy...Garden Accents is the name I think. Mine is a good 12 inches in diameter and I'm going to check the spiral direction tonite when I get home from work. Thanks for the tips, Brad.

Y'all may not know it, but Brad's a poly polymath.

So, Brad, how are your fair polys faring?

Brad -

That was an incredible summary of spiraling...and it totally cracked me up. Thanks!

T

The two in the ground and 3 younger ones now in 15g pots waiting for new beds to be constructed are doing just fine, Jeffrey. I bought the new ones for $15 each two years ago at the SFSCS show when they were in 5g pots.

Xanthoria, if you mean UC Berkely horticuture, they are growing them from seed, and are worth more than the tissue culture variety. Better genetics, hybrid vigor, etc. The tissue culture plants seem to pup at very young ages. This is NOT normal species behavior. There are folks buying the tissue culture plants inexpensively, and selling them for a hefty profit on EBAY at the pre-tissue culture prices. Buyer beware!

d-r, $395!!! wow. A big mature plant is certainly worth a pretty penny or two, but 39,500 of them, I dunno. I paid $90 each for the pair in the ground back in 2002 when they were in 7 gallon deep pots. It was a bit of a gamble then since everyone was telling me they would not last very long. I didn't tell the plants, and they seem perfectly happy with their home. ;)

Left and Right spirals:
{{gwi:537812}} {{gwi:537814}}

They looked like this a couple of years ago. They were lazy this year, no blooms, no seed:
{{gwi:586606}} {{gwi:586607}}

Brad

I hope you all listen to the good advise above. They need cool nights and love the fog. They come from the Drakenburg Mountain range in Africa. I gathered seed in Pacifica of these plants thousands of them. The plant can grow quiet large. They do not grow well in Pasadena, San Fernando, San Grabriel Valley. They would grow well where ever fog came in frequently, and cool nights. They are easy to propagate if you know how, I loved doing this. Be patient. Norma

With younger plants, the spiral can be more evident depending on the angle of the sun and the shadows it makes. Also, a well hydrated plant has leaves that are not as tightly spaced as a plant that is dry, which can also impact the spiral.

Remeber that these are alpine plants that appreciate constant water, strong sun and UV, and a cool root zone. Growing them in exposed pots is not advisable when ambient temps are too warm. 90F soil temp is probably the point at which the plant can suffer.

x

I think Xanthoria must mean Berkeley Horticulture (not UC), a commercial nursery here that has high prices and staff attitudes to match. Have you tried the Dry Garden? It has its own issues, but at least they're friendly!

Yes amyqofu - Berkeley Horticultural Nursery. I do think the ones there were very wet looking - perhpas that's why the spirals were not evident. But were they seed grown? I'll probably never know!

I'll have to try Dry Garden again: love that place!

I am trying my hand at seed propagation and have been successful by starting the seeds in water. When I see roots, then I transplant to a light potting mix. I tried scarifying the seeds and growing them in potting mix, but had zero success. Just an FYI, someone from Succulent Gardens told me that some of the tissue cultured plants did have problems spiraling. I have sold both in my nursery and have yet to receive a complaint. Fingers crossed.