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maki1122

Confused about preparing soil for new veggie bed

17 years ago

I have read Steve Solomon's highly recommended book "Growing Vegetables West of the Cascades" as I prepare for my first veggie garden. I have a plot about 25'x35' with soil that looks fairly compacted and wet right now, obviously. Looks like the previous homeowner did some minimal veggie gardening there in a few small raised wooden beds placed atop weed barrier fabric. After I take off the fabric, I'm confused about how to proceed.

According to Mr. Solomon, I should have prepared my bed last October, using no more than 1/2" of compost and then added lime, thrown in fava bean seeds and rototilled 2" deep, then wait for spring.

Obviously, I dropped the ball, since I didn't even read this until last month. Now I'm grappling with what to do. I'm probably over thinking it, but I'd appreciate your two cents.

Should I:

1) add 1/4" compost and lime, then work the existing soil in with the compost and lime with a rototiller, then cover with another 1/4" compost and starts seeds from there. This just doesn't seem like enough soil but what do I know...

OR

2) bring in several inches of Cedar Grove vegetable compost mix and rototill.

Comments (12)

  • 17 years ago

    You wrote re "...using no more than 1/2" of compost..."

    Don't know where you live, but Solomon's suggestion comes from his experiences where excess compost enhances springtail populations.

    You'd likely be safe to mix in both 2 inches of compost plus the lime now -- well, as soon as the soil isn't too wet.

    Beyond that, Solomon's suggestion to plant fava in fall is to gain the value of a "green manure" crop which should be mixed into the soil before it blooms.

  • 17 years ago

    Or bypass the presently unsuitably damp existing soil by purchasing a bulk soil mix promoted by a soil dealer as appropriate for vegetables and dumping that on top, planting in it without mixing it (or anything else) with existing soil.

  • 17 years ago

    Mixing soil disrupts the natural layers of earthworms and bacteria in the soil. I only dig where I'm actually planting something, either a hole where I'm planting a tomato, squash, or cucumber, which I amend and add fertilizer. For something planted in a row like beans, kale, etc, I make a furrow and put lava rock and compost in the bottom of the furrow then plant the seeds in that. Lava rock is to deter the voles. In the case of pole beans I also put a 4" galvanized nail beside every bean that sprouts to keep voles from coming up underneath it and eating the roots (warning, don't try this at home). Last year even with this I had a few nipped off vines so I may resort to wrapping each stem with aluminum foil too. If you're in a city lot maybe you will be fortunate not to have voles.

    Lime is generally added in the fall so it can break down but some kinds will break down fast and can be added in spring. This year I'm trying glacial rock dust as an additive as well to see if vegetables will grow better with the trace minerals. I'm also trying some mycorrhizal fungi.

    Nancy

  • 17 years ago

    Check your soil pH before adding lime.

    Dump on plenty of compost, then till in.

    People did grow veggies successfully, even here, long before Steve Solomon came along. I do love his work but let's get a grip. There are many correct paths to the same goal.

    I avoid just dumping one soil on top of another without mixing the two together at the boundary. Having an abrupt texture change from one soil to another disrupts drainage, as in stopping it cold. You'll get waterlogged conditions on top of the boundary. Mixing the two soils together at the interface gives you a more gradual change which may slow drainage but won't stop it dead in its tracks like a distinct boundary can. Mixing soil does disrupt earthworm burrows but they build new ones, and bacterial populations shift to match the new conditions, but drainage problems last a long long time.

  • 17 years ago

    That's a huge size of veggie garden to start all at once! What veggies are you hoping to grow? Can a lot of it be planted in potatoes to loosen up the soil? We also grow Acorn Squash by making a hill using manure then letting the plants roam over the untilled area. The big leaves of the squash shade weeds and keep them from overwhelming me. This uses up another big area and we are still eating the squash we harvested last fall. Have you checked out the soil forum here? They talk a lot about lasagna gardens and I have had good success with this method.

  • 17 years ago

    Tilling vs. mulching is controversial, an interesting subject to google. My personal experience is that tilling heavy clay soils makes them resemble concrete. I prefer nature's way of building fertility by covering the soil with mulches which keep down weeds, prevent water evaporation, and decompose slowly. I dry grass clippings until the heat of decomposition is gone, then I mulch new plantings after the seeds are up, with soaker hoses running down each row under the mulch. This keeps me from having to weed and makes watering easy.

    Tilling also results in creation of a hard layer of soil at the depth of the tines that resists water penetration, brings up weed seeds, etc.

  • 17 years ago

    Tilling only disprupts the soil and its population of beneficials if it is done repeatedly and to excess. Same with the creation of a layer of hardpan....it doesn't happen after just one time. Layering or mulching OM or sheet composting to improve soil conditions only works effectively if you have the time available to allow nature to take its course. It will be of little value or help if you intend to plant this season.

    I'm with reg on this. As I wrote in reponse to the same post in the Soils forum, bring in the Cedar Grove (that's good stuff, btw), till it in and plant. Adding or tilling compost or other OM into heavy clay soils will not turn them into concrete - it will improve texture and drainage, as long as you add in sufficient quantities. Start making you own compost and you can use that to mulch as your gardening career progresses. In fall after harvest, plant a cover crop like the favas or other leguminous plant to further loosen the soil, prevent winter erosion and add nutrients.

  • 17 years ago

    Yes, part of the reason I was getting overwhelmed is that I'm aware of the controversy about tilling, and stratifications issues, but feel I'm at a point where adding compost and doing a one-time tillage seems like it's probably the most practical option.
    Since it's a large (read: slightly overwhelming) space for a beginning veggie gardener, I'm also thinking of only doing a half garden and placing the other half under cover of alfalfa or clover or something nitrogen-fixing.
    I'm going to do a soil test first, then move forward with all of this in mind. And I'm going to try not to be such a perfectionist/worrier about it: this is supposed to be a joyful hobby, right?! ;)

    reg_pnw7: I love what you said about getting a grip. That's how I was starting to feel. His book is interesting but a bit rigid. I'd never heard of symphalans before reading it and now I'm sure I'll start having nightmares about them! lol.

  • 17 years ago

    "The Bottom Line
    Â Ideal soils, from a fertility standpoint, are generally defined as containing no more than 5% OM
    by weight or 10% by volume
    Â Before you add organic amendments to your garden, have your soil tested to determine its OM
    content and nutrient levels
    Â Be conservative with organic amendments; add only what is necessary to correct deficiencies and
    maintain OM at ideal levels
    Â Do not incorporate organic amendments into landscapes destined for permanent installations;
    topdress with mulch instead
    Â Abnormally high levels of nutrients can have negative effects on plant and soil health
    Â Any nutrients not immediately utilized by microbes or plants contribute to non-point source
    pollution"

    Here is a link that might be useful: Compost Overdose PDF

  • 17 years ago

    Unless your plot has been frequently & heavily organically ammended in the recent past, you will be very pleased with Cedar Grove compost. It's almost impossible to overdose when mixed with native soil, and is better than any fertilizer since it also helps regulate the water/oxygen balance.
    Organic overdosing hysteria, as proposed by Dr. Chalker-Scott in the link above, are highly theoretical in very non-typical circumstances, and even then backed up by only anectdotes.
    The real facts are that your garden plants will grow (and thrive) in even up to 100% Cedar Grove compost, although a few inches rototilled deeply is typical.
    - Tom

  • 17 years ago

    >The real facts are that your garden plants will grow (and thrive) in even up to 100% Cedar Grove compostHow do you know what will result from a particular treatment to someone's gardening site that you have never even been to, let alone read a soil test report for? Soils vary, even within the same building lot. The idea that every site everywhere will always benefit from the generous laying on of organic amendments is false.

    Plants are not even universal in a need for a high humus soil. The growth of quite a few kinds is actually impeded by abundant organic matter in the soil; just as there are different soils in different spots there are different kinds of plants adapted to different soil (and other) conditions.

  • 17 years ago

    bboy, we're talking vegetable garden here.....plants that have a high nutrient demand and that do grow best in amended, highly organic soils. And there is ample evidence that vegetables can thrive in virtually 100% organic 'soil', such as one would expect with using only compost. If the area in question has not been tended or actively gardened recently, it IS very likely organic matter is deficient and tilling in several inches of compost is going to help, not cause the problems you allude to, which tend to be idiosyncratic at best.

    One of the primary benefits of using organically sourced materials is that it IS pretty darn hard to overdo them. Because of the way they work - in tandem with soil organisms - it is virtually impossible to create "nutrient overload". And they tend to offer nutrients in very low levels anyway, so one would require VERY large quantities of anything, especially compost or other OM, to create "abnormally high levels". As to nutrients not "immediately utilized", that statement makes no sense. It takes time for organically derived nutrients to be converted into plant accessible forms - with almost no exceptions, nothing takes place immediately so the products cannot be utilized immediately. By virtue of these two principles, leaching of organic products and therefore pollution is very uncommon and is typically limited to runoff from large piles of manures.....hardly the case occurring in most home gardens.

    While Chalker-Scott sometimes has valuable things to offer, she also seems to have a very simplistic understanding of soils and soil biology. And organics. And I dislike her approach of stating everything in such no-uncertain-terms without offering any documentation or substantiation to support her theories. And she is not addressing cropping or the growing of harvested edibles, which is an entirely separate set of conditions. Interestingly, much of what she says is in direct contradiction to the Master Gardener publications she supposedly oversees.

    Here is a link that might be useful: WSU Master Gardener publications - vegetables

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