Let me clarify. He twisted the two ground wires together then attached the pigtail to the ground screw (the outlets are technically grounded). The issue we are trying to clarify is whether or not the "twisted together" meets code versus connecting them together using a wire nut or crimp connector. Thanks!

Some places actually "tolerate" this. It is NOT code legal though.

A crimp or wire nut is required. You can cite NEC 250.148 & 110.14(B)

That's just what we were thinking. Thanks so much for the specific code section!!

In Canada our code says the first ground wire entering the box must go under the box ground screw, then it can be pigtailed to the device or outgoing ground wire. We must also secure the twisted ground wires with wire nuts or crimps.

We don't have the "first wire entering the box" rule, but all metal boxes MUST be grounded, and we MUST use some sort of mechanical connection for the grounds.

we had a handyman that was doing some work for us a few years ago that did this and sure enough one of the times where he just twisted them together wasnt a good connection and the rest of the receptacles downstream had no equiptment ground.

IMO it DOES make a difference.

cowboyandy, that's exactly what DH is concerned about, that the twist will eventually fail and make every device down the line hot. We're going to address it with the electricians this week and hope we don't get any grief when asking them to fix it.

BigBird,

Technically speaking, the code doesn't call for wire nuts or crimps- it actually calls for 'lugs, pressure wire connector clamps, or OTHER EQUALLY SUBSTANTIAL MEANS'. Let's face it, a few bonds WELL AND TIGHTLY twisted together so that they don't need a wire-nut, can make the difference in proper box-fill. Do I do this all the time-no, have I done it, yes. Do I feel fine about it-yes. After all, the wire nuts aren't there for conductivity, only pressure, and a nice tight twist will do the job.

I dont think you can omit wirenuts to meet boxfill requirements.

BB and ontariojer are in Canada.

In the US wire nuts and pigtails are not considered in box fill.

cork2win, you're lucky -- I've been replacing a lot of switches in our existing house, and while every box has the grounds twisted together without wire nuts, nothing in any of the boxes is grounded, hahaha! The grounds are just spliced together and then continue on their merry way to the next plastic box.

that's normal in older applications.

Devices used to not have ground terminals on them. When devices first started coming with ground screws on them the inspectors here still didn't require us to use them. It wasn't until years later that they actually required us to use the ground screws on devices.

"After all, the wire nuts aren't there for conductivity, only pressure, and a nice tight twist will do the job."

The wire nut has a metal spring inside to ensure that pressure is exerted against the conductors over the long term and the hundreds of hot-cold cycles the joint is subjected to.

Normal temperature cycles will result in copper (let alone aluminum) wires simply twisted together not being effectively connected by a low impedance.

When you need a safety ground is the last time you want to find out it is poor connection that will not allow enough fault current to trip the breaker, or has enough drop to let the ground voltage rise when current flows.

I understand how a wire nut works, but give me a break. If these

http://www.twacomm.com/catalog/model_30-013.htm

(for STRANDED wire no less)and back-stabs are allowed, well. I think you see where I'm going. Also, of course you couldn't do this with Alu, that should go without saying.

"I understand how a wire nut works, but give me a break."

and

"a few bonds WELL AND TIGHTLY twisted together so that they don't need a wire-nut"

This would indicate you do NOT understand how a wire nut functions.
You can twist the wires together all you want, without something else to apply a compressive force that will tolerate temperature cycles you have a poor connection.
If not immediately, but at some point down the road.

As for back stabs, in the US they are only allowed on #14 wire circuits, limiting use to 15 A.
Originally they would accept #12, but they failed miserably so only #14 is allowed.

"You can twist the wires together all you want, without something else to apply a compressive force that will tolerate temperature cycles you have a poor connection. "

I would be genuinely interested in any studies on this subject, so if you know of any please let me know where i could read them.

It is in the listing for the wire nuts, and darn near every other electrical connection method.

If simply twisting wires together with NO fastener to maintain the integrity it would have been adopted years ago instead of mechanical fasteners, crimp fasteners, or all the other methods REQUIRED to make a reliable long term connection.

It is up to you to prove that your 'connection' meets the reliability requirements of the codes.

Where are your controlled condition studies that show twisted wires with NO other fastening method are safe and reliable?
YOU are proposing a change in the requirements.
YOU must meet the burden of proof.

"Let's face it, a few bonds WELL AND TIGHTLY twisted together so that they don't need a wire-nut, can make the difference in proper box-fill. Do I do this all the time-no, have I done it, yes. Do I feel fine about it-yes."

good thing your not one of my guys. After chewing you raw I'd be watching the back of your head getting smaller and as you walk off my job site.

So, no studies then?

I see

It states in 250.8 I believe, the acceptable methods for equipment ground. I have to agree with hexus, you'd be walking off the site. The code does call for some sort of fitting or connector to be used or exothermic welding I believe. And wire nuts are a 'listed pressure-type' connector, read the box. That's my two cents...

So you really felt it was that important to drag up a SIX YEAR old thread to reiterate what has already been stated???

So you thought my post was a waste of time but yet you respond with a pointless question. If i didnt think it would help i wouldnt have posted it. You cited 2 areas in the code book that dont really help with what was asked. I was in the middle of an arguement with an arrogant journeyman and was looking for something to back up the use of wire nuts to pigtail the grounds and this thread didnt help. I already found what you had cited and it didnt help. Later i found 250.8 and decided to add it to thread to possibly help someone else down the road. As old as it is, it still comes up when the subject is searched. Thats 5 min. of my life I'll never get back.... I'm done.

So sorry for your loss. Let me see if I can find an extra 5 minutes I can send you. :(