And for reference, here's a jpeg of the entire first floor layout (still very much in draft form)

A couple of initial thoughts - an island of 7' will not "comfortably" seat 4 or 5. It will comfortably seat 3, a 4th might squish in, but 5, not possible, unless there is room at the end(s) which in this case there isn't.

I personally don't like the sink bump out - if at all I might set it back by 6", but not by 24".

Is it only you and DH? No kids, right? And you changed the original layout to your with cooktop on island? Just making sure we look at the right layout.

So first off, why did you make the changes you did? What did and didn't you like in the original?

Did you see Marcolo's mantra "ice water stone fire"?

Given that, I think I'd put I the refrigerator next to the pantry, bump the sink IN, not out, then cooktop on the perimeter. Although,since that would give you a deep, unusable bit of counter, maybe leave the fridge as is and put the cooktop next to the pantry. (Personally, I don't want to eat looking at the stove or the sink.) Save the island for work and food.

The pantry looks very narrow, how do you plan to arrange it?

Hi RCLCSKI! I'm not at all the person to give layout advice as we are working on our first custom build. I just wanted to tell you that we are breaking ground at the beginning of next week on our own modified version of this same plan. I love seeing that others have fallen in love with this home!

FWIW - we are not doing the bumpout at the sink and also removed all appliances from the island. I have two little ones and the thought of cooking while they are sitting so closely in front of me makes me nervous.

Good luck in your planning and building!

Amy

I really dislike the bump-out. It breaks up the counter in a way that I think would be terribly annoying. Why not bump out the entire kitchen wall? It would let you have contiguous counter on that wall and give you better clearances between the island and counter (3'2" is tight even for traffic).

Like bpathome, I'm not sure what you are planning to do with the pantry. I don't see a dimension on the plan, but it only looks to be about 3 ft wide. That's going to be tight even with shelving on only one side.

I think that sink bump-out makes for a very inefficient work area. You're losing all that counter space on each side and increasing the steps needed to take things to the sink and for putting washed items away. It may look cool but I think you'll come to hate it.

A cooktop on an island doesn't work well. Most advise against it. You need a lot of depth so people can sit there without getting splattered if they are visiting while you're cooking. A cooktop with proper venting on the outside usually works better than a vent needing a longer pipe with several bends in it in order to route the venting from an island to the outside. And the longer the pipe, the stronger the fan needs to be, thus creating more noise when in use.

I think to follow the ice-water-stone-fire principle for easy prep and clean-up, I'd lose the bump-out, put a clean-up sink about where the bump-out starts nearest the fridge, and the cooktop on the other side of the current bump-out. On the island, I'd put a small prep sink where you now have the cooktop. I think you could then make the island a bit narrower so you can still maintain good space between island and counter. You'll want at least 4-feet.

If that would make the island too narrow, then I would bump-out the entire kitchen wall instead of just the small space for the sink to allow for at least 4-feet there.

I'm also curious about the very narrow pantry. I would bump it wider past the wall stealing some space from the laundry. I would rather have a larger pantry/smaller laundry. In fact, I would make it a walk-thru pantry so you can access the laundry from the kitchen. This accomplishes two things. First, it eliminates extra steps when bringing in groceries from the garage. Second, you could be working in the kitchen and more easily get to the laundry space to put the wash in the dryer, etc. Just more efficient work flow.

You have a nice space for your kitchen. I think it just needs a few tweaks to make it more functional.

Please do not put a cooktop on an island. It is so hard to exhaust, and expensive. And do not even think of doing a downdraft exhaust for the cooktop. You will regret that, please believe me. The cooktop on the wall is much easier to exhaust. And, as has been pointed out many times by the kitchen gurus on this forum, you spend most of the time in the kitchen prepping (I think it's 70%), and relatively very little time actually at the cooktop. So you should devote the island for prepping, where you can face outward, and have the cooktop on a wall, where you won't be spending much time any way. Also, the splatters from the cooktop against a wall will be contained by a wall backsplash, which you just wipe. But on a cooktop in an island, the splatters may go toward the people sitting there! Or, you hope will be sucked up by the island exhaust, which circles me back to the problems--and expense-- of island exhausts.

For the pantry,you might even have double doors opening into it in the hallway. The shelves can wrap around (there could be hooks or shallow basket racks on the doors, too), and you can see and reach everything, even a place to store special dinner/serving pieces convenient to the DR. You might want to reserve part to open into the kitchen for a little shallow storage, or as a cookbook/display case.

You didn't ask, but consider moving the laundry room sink out of that little nook. It'll be really hard to use. Maybe lengthen the pantry to use up that space, and move things around in the laundry to put the sink next to the washer or to counter space.

You can make your pantry bigger (more comfortable to get things in and out the door) a couple of ways. You could either

-make it open into the hallway rather than the kitchen

or

-either get a stacking washer and dryer, or move the washer and dryer so that they sit under the window where the plan is labeled "folding counter."

3' 6" is pretty tight around the island. Doable? Yes, but uncomfortable if you have more than one person at a time trying to work or get something in the kitchen at the same time. 48" would be better.

I wouldn't square the island and put all the seats in the collonade area. It's going to feel tight and will put the sitters, or at least their stools, in the walkway.

I agree that it would be nice to get the cooktop off the island. With this plan, since you are considering doing 1 oven anyway, it might make more sense to do a single range rather than a separate cooktop and oven.

If you can get the cooktop off the island, you could make the island shallower than 4' deep, which would let you pull the sink area back in flush with the other cabinets. I was going to agree with an above poster to push the entire wall out, but then I looked at what it would do to your porch back there: render it almost useless. It would be a shame to have a porch but have it too narrow to sit on. Try physically outlining an area only 5-7 feet deep like your porch and see what you can do with it before committing to the sink area bump-out.

Are you building in the South, or in a super sunny location? If not, I'm wondering if this plan is going to seem dark inside. (Skylights?) The bedrooms are going to block light from the two ends, and the porch and deck (if covered) are going to cut out much of the light on the front and the back. Are you ok with this? I crave sunlight streaming in our house in our dreary, cloudy-much-of-the-year location, but not everyone feels this way. : )

Best wishes. It's an exciting project!

I think the sink bump out will look odd from the exterior and interfere with the usefulness of your covered porch.

Looks like a great home. If it was mine, I'd get the cooktop off the island.

Good luck.

Again, you didn't ask, but a few thoughts on other elements in the plan.

In the service hall, consider adding an outside door. I know the garage is right there, but it can be convenient to have a service door that doesn't require you to open a garage door and squeeze past the car.

In the garage, move the bays to the right a little if you plan to keep all that space. This will give you three things: Room to park the trash and recycling bins close to the door; Room to open the first car's door further so it's easier to get in and out; and Room to back the first car out without bumping into a post.

And in the master bath, consider turning the tub sideways to eliminate another bump out. As the plan touts up in the corner, a plain rectangle is cheaper to build :)

Unless the view is off the chart amazing and there is nothing but windows in the kitchen, I would hate working in the bump out area AND it needs something amazing to justify the loss in efficency of disconnecting the countertops like that. what a PITA you would be creating....if you also do the cleaning consider that you are adding two additional corners, two additional side panels and two additional windows to clean. What is the point of isolating the cook and keeping that person as far away from everyone else as possible? Divorce potential? Please re think this. The kitchen is suposed to be the center of the home and the cook the graceful star....or do you have a cook and want space between owner and help?

If you stick with this, you will want trash in another spot, also. Imagine walking around those corners every time you need to throw away some dripping chicken remnants. Also, every time you wash some vegetables, carrying them around the corner to prep, then moving them another 5 feet to the cooktop.

DH and I were just looking over your plan and have a few more ideas for you.

To us, there is nothing in the back hall to say "welcome home" when you come in from the garage. It's all very small and service oriented. Also, the laundry is too far from the master bedroom for our liking.

As we looked at it, we realized you could switch the laundry with the foyer and entry area. Why not have a beautiful, welcoming entry shared with the garage entry, and put the service stuff down near where you'll use it.

Are you familiar with "The Not So Big House" book series by Sarah Susanka? These books would be well worth reading before deciding on a final plan. Many libraries have her books, but they're also worth the purchase.

Here is a link that might be useful: Susanka's books on Amazon

How is this if you want to keep the bump out?

{{gwi:2135800}}

I resized your laundry and pantyr and added a pass through to pantry from the mudroom side.

In the kitchen, I moved the fridge next to the pantry, have an appliance garage next to it (MW there). Instead of a range and a single wall oven have double ovens. Cooktop on the bump-out (counter depth can be 27-30) with small windows on each side and also on the side walls. Main sink is close to cooktop, so you can easily fill pots or dump pasta. DW is after the corner. IMO if you have a 15-18 cab after the corner cab this sink/DW arrangement would not cause any inconvenience for you.

{{gwi:2135801}}

Everyone has been so helpful, thank you (and Sena01 -- WOW! I never imagined that anyone would go to so much effort on my behalf, thank you!). Attached are two additional options I've worked out based on all the feedback provided here (including Marcolo's mantra, and recent post -- thanks bpathome), one of which is very similar to Sena01's layout above.

In response to some of the other comments, it's just my husband and I (and on occasion two adult daughters who live 4-hours away; impressive set of assumptions, bpathome) so seating for 3 at the island is perfect for us.

Using Sub-zero/Wolf integrated appliances so the hidden entry to the pantry will match the doors to the refrigerator across from it. Going with a 6-burner range with an additional wall oven and drawer microwave. I anticipate making adjustments to the utility room with an eye to expanding the pantry, but that is an issue secondary to the kitchen layout which is what I'm focused on right now. We have a lot of cupboards/counter/drawer space -- plenty for multiple trash/recycle receptacles and a lifter for the Kitchen Aid mixer.

Again, thanks for all of your thoughts and opinions and I invite them again.

(PS -- Amy, good luck on breaking ground this week! We hope to start ours in the spring. I'd love learning more about the changes you made to the plan, feel free to email me at rclcski@gmail.com if you have the time and inclination, otherwise I'll watch for updates on the build thread! Again, good luck!)

I've read many negative opinions re: corner sinks. People who've had them often find they are awkward to use and difficult to clean behind. Not sure if fridge & oven in corners would feel awkward or not.

I, too, have read numerous negative comments about corner sinks. I don't remember the specifics. You might want to search around.

I've seen a few reveals and layout questions with corner cooktops and don't recall negative comments about that. Of course, I may have missed them. Might want to do a search on that as well.

I see problems with a corner fridge due to the inability to open the doors very wide before they hit the cabinets. Will this be a problem remove large items or drawers/shelves to clean them? Mine would be a problem in the corner but I'm not familiar with SubZeros so maybe they have a different configuration that won't cause that problem?

Option #3 follows the ice-water-stone-fire principal quite nicely. #2 does not.

The thing about option #2 though, is that the fridge & pantry are together-which I've read is desirable - and they are accessible to anyone getting a drink/snack without going into the rest of the kitchen. Also something many people find desireable. It also leaves a long unbroken stretch of counter between fridge and sink.

I wonder how option #2 would work with the range in the corner instead of the sink? That would follow the ice/water/fire ideal.

I'm not against cook tops or ranges in islands, provided the island is large enough to allow for ample work space on either side of the cook top or range. Your first plan allowed for 24", about 7" more than I currently have on each side of my island cook top. I hate it with a passion because there is so little room to prep and work next to the cook top. It's one of the driving reasons for completely reworking our kitchen (remodel to start soon, yay!). And the pop-up downdraft is a joke. That said, new pop-up downdrafts are much more effective but, as has been pointed out, island venting is more expensive than perimeter venting.

So I'm glad to see that your later versions moved the range out of the island and eliminated that odd sink wall jog by bumping the whole wall out.

Of the 2 latest plans you posted, I prefer Option 2. There is no zone crossing between clean-up and prep/cooking functions, unlike what will occur in your Option 3. I think Option 2 could be made even better.

{{gwi:2135802}}

I moved the sink out of the corner. I'm not sure what you gain by going with a corner sink, other than mirroring the other angled corner. (I have a corner sink under corner windows; I've always been happy with this set-up. The main downside is that it's very difficult to clean behind the sink.) Eliminating these 2 angled corners gains you longer stretches of counter, which is always a plus, IMO.

Here are images of sinks against walls, not under windows, so you can see design options for this type of set-up.

[

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Novato Kitchen & Bath Designers Julie Williams Design

[{{gwi:2135803}}[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/kitchens-traditional-kitchen-san-francisco-phvw-vp~1994291)

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Los Gatos Kitchen & Bath Designers Kitchens of Los Gatos

[

[Contemporary Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2103) by Dallas Interior Designers & Decorators Denise McGaha Interiors

[

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Boston Kitchen & Bath Designers Dalia Kitchen Design

btw, I made an assumption about the size of your double pantry doors, basing its width on the integrated fridge (also assumed this was 42" not 36"). If it's larger or smaller, you'll need to adjust the sink wall accordingly.

Putting a range in a corner is a tricky thing to do. You have to design it very carefully to make sure it works, plus it eats up a lot of space on each wall. A 36" cook top will require 51"-54" of space from each wall. Because a range sticks out beyond the counter edge, you'll need wider spacers next to it in order to be able to open cab doors and drawers without bumping into the range. That's not saying it can't be done but you should know the pros and cons of such a set-up. Read the following articles written by Kelly Morisseau, CMKBD, for more information.

A reader asks: A cooktop or range in the corner?

A Design Reader Asks: Help with range in the corner?

btw, the same cautions apply to placing a fridge or an oven in a corner, too. Plus, there's the awkward placement of a tall thing breaking up stretches of counter. I wouldn't do it.

lisa_a, would the prep sink be better on the other side of the island in your layout? (just trying to learn)

~emmers

Emmers - no. The way Lisa has it, it allows you to take things out of the refrigerator and place them on the island without the prep sink getting in the way. Now, it's refrigerator (ice) --> counter (stone-landing space) --> sink (water) --> counter (stone-prep space) --> range (fire-cooking).

If the prep sink were on the other side, the sink would be in the way of placing things down on the island for prepping.

However, if there's room, I would want 12" or so on the other side of the sink to minimize the chances of knocking things off the counter and to minimize splashing on the floor.

[Edited for typos]

This post was edited by buehl on Sun, Jan 4, 15 at 14:41

hmm... but you'd have to cross past the range to get to either sink. Doesn't that make all that counter between the fridge and the range less useful for prepping?

It looked like there'd be enough room for a landing spot on the island even with the sink on the other side.

No, it's an additional Prep Zone. It also gives someone a choice as to where they want to prep - on the island facing guests or on the perimeter looking out the window - a nice choice!

The counter that might be considered "wasted" is b/w the refrigerator and the range, but it could be made into a Snack/Beverage Center. I would probably move the refrigerator "south" a bit, though, to prevent the island from being a barrier b/w the refrigerator and the Prep Zones. (It's not a full barrier, but it is verging on being one.) Then, put the Snack Center "north" of the refrigerator so someone getting a snack isn't in the way of anyone in the kitchen but would still have access to the refrigerator.

I would probably put a MW drawer in the island facing the Snack Center but on the bottom so it's easily accessible from the Prep Zones as well.

As Buehl pointed out, the left end of the island is prime landing space for items coming from the fridge, wall oven and MW. It's also going to be the best spot for setting down bags of groceries to put away in the fridge. That is why I kept the prep sink in the lower right corner of the island.

That said, the prep sink could be moved to the left end with a 15" trash pull-out between prep sink cab and end. That would give the OP 18"-19" of counter between sink edge and counter edge for a landing zone. (I currently have 16" of island counter for my landing zone for pantry, oven/MW/toaster oven and fridge. It's definitely not large enough for my needs but the OP will also have counter next to the wall oven/MW so the situation is not quite the same.)

Marcolo's ice-water-stone-fire mantra does not mean that you can't have stone between ice and water. It just means that water should not be on the opposite side of fire from ice. If the plan did not include a prep sink in the island, then the plan would violate Marcolo's rule because the OP would have to walk past fire to get to water and then backtrack. In the plan I drew the prep sink is MOL across from fire so, IMO, it follows Marcolo's ice-water-stone-fire advice.

In reading other comments, I realize I misread your floorplans when I said #2 follows ice-water-stone-fire while #3 didn't. Sorry for the confusion. I'm still a novice here myself and still learning.