Software
Houzz Logo Print
keako

Sink Not Centered in Base.. and why I HATE most Contracters

10 years ago
I am starting to lose hope on contractors all together. This last one was a real doozy. We asked him to demo old countertops, install butcher block countertop, sink and tile backsplash. The sink is the same size as the old one. This guy cuts a hole for the new sink that isn't centered in the sink base. He also chose to sand my wood down to make the counters "level" so now I'm left with a bleached spot. He didn't protect my counters while he was tiling so now they are all scratched up. He cut the tile crooked. He shimmed the counters (because my cabinets were so old and unlevel) and doesn't think covering the gap with moulding is part of the job. He basically has no excuse except "your trying to put new 'stuff' on old 'stuff'". We told him that had nothing to do with sloppy tile, scratching up the wood, cutting the sink wrong and all of the other issues. This really sucks because we did everything "right". He came highly recommended and we reviewed the job throughly with him and didn't haggle. He has nothing to say but "do you want to finish the job or what?". I'm just SOOO sick of dealing with incompetent workers. I guess this is why so many people nowadays are DIYers.. if it's wrong they can only blame themselves. I'm not grouping all contractors but I will say that I never, ever have a good experience with them. I'm sure there are many competent, skilled, honest guys out there but I never find them. Anyway, that's my rant. My question is, is there anything I can do to fix my countertop and center the sink without ripping it all out? (I'm attaching photos of the before as well to show that all was centered).

Comments (36)

  • 10 years ago
    Ugh
  • 10 years ago
    Thank you for allowing me to vent
  • 10 years ago
    Bump
  • 10 years ago
    Was he a licensed contractor? That's "unfortunate" looking :(
  • 10 years ago

    Wow, that sounds like a brutal contractor experience. Are your countertops sealed with some type of finish or just oiled? I am not sure that there are a lot of good options with respect to some of these issues like the sink.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Licensed? Bonded? Insured? Did you go see other work by this person before hiring?

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I think the sink is too big for that cabinet... Being installed the way it is, can you put the drawer back into the cabinet next to it? It doesn't look like it's going to fit.

  • 10 years ago
    I didn't check to see if he was licensed, bonded or insured.. He's not! Really stupid mistake on my part. I see so many DIYers install their own butcher block counters that I foolishly reasoned "how difficult could this be?". I seriously underestimated the skill level needed to do this job.

    I saw photos of his work... he renovated my coworker and her daughters kitchen soup to nuts. The job looked good to me but I didn't inspect the finer details. I honestly didn't think I would have to tell someone to "center a sink". We have fired the guy and are going to sue him to get the money back. We paid half up front.

    The sink is not too big for the base. It's the same size as the prior sink.
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Pictures might be worth a 1000 words but when checking someones work only yhe real thing will do. This unfortunately is a live and learn deal as for suing him save the money chances are he has none himself. you will need to get a new piece of butcher block forr this area and have it reinstalled as for where it sticks up above the cabinets that is caused by your cabinets not being level with each other not really his problem

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    keako-I'm so sorry that you are having such a bad experience. By law, a contractor cannot accept more than 10% deposit or $2000 as a deposit. Unfortunately since this is not a licensed contractor there is no use in contacting the contractor's board to complain.

    Our firm was recently hired to "correct" the work on a 3 million dollar home that the homeowners hired a "handyman" that was unlicensed to do. It is not our first time at having to fix mistakes made by unlicensed folks. Being a licensed professional does not always mean you are getting reputable help, but calling the contractors board to check the status of their license and talking to at least 3 references and actually visiting the work is best. The temptation to hire the "low bidder" in these situations does not always work out.

    A licensed contractor pays literally 10's of thousands of dollars a year to carry errors and ommissions (defect) insurance (up to 2 million dollars of coverage) to cover potentially expensive problems that can occur. That is why we are rarely "low bidder".

    Once again, so sorry for the nightmare you are going through, just hope it can be a cautionary tale for others.

  • 10 years ago
    I didn't know the law about 10% upfront. Is that in every state?
  • 10 years ago
    We knew the cabinets weren't level. All we wanted him to do was cover the gap from the shims with moulding. The countertops were unfinished. They are the Numerar Beech from Ikea, which are now, unfortunately discontinued.
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Not all localities require licensing, and/or bonding, and/or insurance. My area requires none of the above, nor is licensing even available through any local government agency. Insurance is up to the individual business, (stupid if they don't have it, but many don't). There are a lot of guys running around with a pickup truck, saw, and hammer, but no screwdriver, because they aren't sure which end to use. Unfortunately, the guy you hired, is one of these.

  • 10 years ago

    I'm sorry for your experience. It's so hard to find someone who you can trust to do good work. We try to find contractors by personal recommendation from someone we know, or even better someone who has some reputation in the 'game' (real estate agent, designer, trades).

    I have found that the most reliable contractors are rarely freely available, and they are worth the wait. They are also expensive (relatively), but for the quality and peace of mind, it's totally worth the value you get.

    Asking about insurance and warranty is important, too.

    I'd say cut your losses and get someone in who can salvage this mess for you. You might be able to take him to small claims court -- do you have a contract?

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    The placement of the sink has nothing to do with old or new cabinets--he simply mis-measured where to cut the hole and did not want to eat the cost of the counter. Did he come recommended based on a similar job? Perhaps invite your source over for a coffee and reality check to put an end to the recommendations. Sadly, this is a small claims matter (weigh the cost of pursuit against simply starting over).

    Warning...longish...

    Anyone--PROs too--may experience the awesome (and sometimes awful) range of competencies. I support Design Intervention's comments, also agreeing that a license is no guarantee. (I've seen a property fall 40k in value under "licensed" management by an well known name firm with the owner investing 150k to render it sell-able/livable again.)

    I find that licensing is most effective where the practice and procedures are well-defined. Then, it is likely that the individual has been tested against the same type of job. Where the service is more general and expected to deliver creativity and the advantages of learning over time, I do not look for license so much as experience, resourcefulness and transparency in (documented) communications.

    You may have hit all the right points in interviewing this person. Questions should include foreseeable challenges with the specific project. E.g. the sink cabinet is a tight fit for a centre under the window--will the sink purchased fit into the cabinet as we want it to? How do you propose to handle this and do you have any concerns to raise? (If that is a 24" sink cabinet, the sink does appear to be on the large side and from the photo it appears the centre panel in the cabinet has been removed to accommodate--and screw up--the end result.) I may be mis-reading the images, but have seen a similar problem.

    Sometimes owners try to economize or simplify by using one person to do it all. The alternative is to be your own project manager (or use someone like me) to manage a project and bring in specialized trades. The role is known as General Contractor, but that terminology is imprecise, in my experience and is more useful for marketing a GC service than in assessing one.

    E.g., I like to purchase counters from an outfit that (among other criteria) has good products, will install and stand behind that installation. In one project, the counter came with a faucet hole pre-drilled in the wrong place. We had agreed on drilling to be done on-site to ensure best placement. Floform in Victoria BC replaced the entire stone counter proactively with absolutely no problem and only one day of delay. I've used them on three projects as a result and have recommended Floform to others who are equally satisfied. Point is, they had a specific role to play and are excellent in performing that role. Cabinet selection and install and tiling were separately undertaken by people skilled and experienced in that work. It is more work for me as project manager to align schedules and ensure cooperation among trades who may or may not have a history--but I find the outcome preferable to the (rarely less expensive) one person does it all approach.

    Be aware that even so, things do go awry. E.g. electricians seem to have an uncanny knack for placing controls where the owner's favourite painting is expected to go--despite explicit plans. Licensed--but not designers by any means and very rarely are they knowledgeable about the effect of light on art, fabrics and artifacts (equation: level of illumination times the hours per day = lux hours per day) so the selection of fixtures and light sources is often detrimental to collectibles. People trained in this regard are archivists...how many people are lucky enough to have an archivist with this specialization advising on a construction project (as I do)?

    Ultimately, it is the owner who must be diligent. It sounds like you've made the effort but are facing repeated problems. It may be helpful to write out your several experiences and see what the benefit of hindsight brings out. Then, perhaps, write up a "cheat sheet" for yourself so that future hires hit on the points that can make a difference. Drawing from lessons learned is huge;y beneficial--and are easily lost in the desire to escape frustration!

    Sorry for such a long post--I hope things improve!

    .



  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I'm thinking there will be framing around the window that will totally hide the short tiles? If not, expect him to say "You won't even notice it when the grout in in"

    The sink should have been centered with the window and the cabinet. I think it's more important to be right with the window but it doesn't look like he did either! Can he explain why he didn't pay any attention to these details?

  • 10 years ago

    Ahhh..Keako. Welcome to the zany world of contractors-both licensed and unlicensed. My theory is that 90% of contractors helped roof a shed one summer in high school, and when they were unable to keep a job due to character and drug issues, they became a contractor! The other 10% are amazing craftsmen whose work will be admired for centuries, but finding one is on par with finding an original copy of the Constitution at the Goodwill. You seem to have solved your problem, and I completely understand your desire to vent!

  • 10 years ago

    When leveling cabinets, the shimming should be done from the bottom, where the gaps will be covered by the toekick material. Then you won't have gaps at the top.

  • 10 years ago
    Deirdre, lol at your 90/10 theory. This is why so many homeowners DIY.

    Leelee, the tile is butted up against existing trim.

    John, agreed! Great advice!

    Whytef, I have a plate number

    Again, the sink is the same size as the last sink that fit fine
  • 10 years ago
    Wow Nancy.. I had no idea. Thx!
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    I'm not sure what the criteria is for all states as we predominantly work in California. But we are also required by law (in California) to warranty all work for 10 years.

  • 10 years ago
    Well guys, I have no choice, I'm going to have to take the countertop off and do it over. Question... can I remove the counter w/o damaging the tile?
  • 10 years ago
    *** Without damaging the tile backsplash
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    That should be possible, Keako--make it an expectation. It may be that the row against the counter may suffer damage, but this should be easily replaced. Good luck!

  • 10 years ago
    Thank you John. Also there are a couple of sloppily cut tile around the window. How do I remove those tile only?
  • 10 years ago
    How many estimates did you get for the job? It is usually best to get at least three. Check out their references and of course check to see if they are licensed and bonded.
    If somebody comes in way lower than everyone else, that is often a huge red flag. You get what you pay for.
    Also, while we are on the subject, it is often a good idea to use a designer who works with a reputable contractor.
    She is your advocate and will make sure mistakes like yours don't happen, or if they do, they will be rectified!
    Never pay up front. Sorry you had to learn this lesson, but now you will never go this route again.
  • 10 years ago
    I always do labor only and buy my own materials. Most contractors want some kind of deposit before they start a job. How do you handle this?
  • 10 years ago
    Why do you buy your own materials? Do you have a resale license? Usually contractors get better pricing.
    If you pay for labor only, still don't pay until the job is complete and to your liking.
  • 10 years ago
    I guess I buy because I don't trust them to skim off top. This has happened before. Will contractors work before being paid a deposit? This is new to me.
  • 10 years ago

    Unfortunately, too many men are more interested in how things "work" than how they "look." I hope you are able to find the right contractor to correct these mistakes.

  • 10 years ago
    My hubby and I are going to grab one of our capable friends and just do it ourselves. We will take our time and will have many challenges but at least it will be done right. This counter can not be salvaged.. turns out one of the commenters above were correct.. the louse installed the sink so far to the right that we can't put the drawer in. I will use the old one for cutting boards!
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Sandy C is correct. The price that our design build firm gets is significantly less than what the lay public pays.....on most of everything. The stuff you are describing about 'getting skimmed" and ripped off is so foreign to the way that business is done in a reputable firm that all I can do is shake my head!

    As she pointed out you get what you pay for. What I was pointing out in my earlier post, is that with a reputable license bonded and insured firm you are getting the better tradesman, the warranty, the security of an insured and licensed contractor. Meaning you have several avenues to resolve any problem via the contractor's license board, and the insurance that the contractor carries. John O'Brien also weighed in about many things that we experience from the professional side of the issue. Your situation is very unfortunate, but not all professionals out there should be painted with the same broad brush.

  • 10 years ago
    Agreed. I am planning a rather large renovation in a month (bathroom and other small projects). I have been in talks with a contractor and realized that I have not found out if he was licensed/bonded/insured. I texted the question and am waiting to hear back.... no answer yet!
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    keako-Truly I wish only the best of luck going forward. Please make sure that you actually go see some of the work done by whomever you hire. I hope to hear a great result when all is said and done. Hope that the few pro's that weighed in will help you see at least some of us in a different light.

  • 10 years ago
    Thank you! This whole process is frightening. Over the past few years we have been ripped off to the tune of close to $25k from incompetent contractors. I see why many people either give up and don't do work at all or learn and just do it themselves.