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Home RepairElectrical Wiring
bill_anderson84

Help with downstream outlets getting twice the voltage

8 years ago

Hey guys,

I am working on my mid 60's rambler and we are in the middle of a kitchen remodel. The kitchen only had 2 outlets, hard wired 240 Oven, hard wired 240v cooktop...

As soon as I added in one outlet The garage door opener died, I didnt put two and two together today, this house is wired so crappy the garage is wired off the kitchen circuit...

I added in 4 outlets 3 of them are working perfect (DMM reads 120v off a different circuit) My wife went to use the toaster in the new outlet today and the toaster lit up like a christmass tree, she unplugged it and left it alone til I got home. I plugged in the toaster and it was running VERY hot so I unplugged it and pulled out the DMM, the added in outlet is 240v, and on further checking the entire garage is running 240v...

With the kitchen remodel I upgraded/replaced all outlets... the outlet that is feeding the garage and new outlet 240v is wired VERY weird and I thought I wired it the same way it was wired but being that the garage and outlet are getting fed 240v I know I screwed up something :(

The old outlet had a white wire loop (crappy way of pig tailing) to the silver screws, there is a yellow wire loop to the bottom brass screw, and the connector between the top and bottom brass screws was removed so I did it on the new outlet... What seems very odd to me is other than the feeder wires (I used the press fit connectors on the back because I had no idea what else to do) there is not a black connected to the outlet...

In the outlet box there are the following; 1 yellow loop (old wiring), one white loop (old wiring), 2 whites (feeding garage and new outlet) pigtailed to the press in connector on the back of the outlet, 2 black (new wiring feeding garage and new outlet) in the press in connector on the outlet, The 2 new wiring black wires are tied into a bundle of old work Reds...

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/LYgByib.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Euj6tWP.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TXuShux.jpg[/IMG]

I have no problem simply cutting the new outlet and garage off from this outlet, but with the jump in voltage I know this is not wired correctly and I want to correct the issue.

I do plan on splitting the garage off to its own circuit because it shouldn't be running off the kitchen, and with gaining 4 breaker spots I actually have room in the breaker box for it (I put in a gas range so it freed up 2 240v breaker spots).

Does anyone have any ideas what I did wrong and what I need to do to resolve this issue?

I am familiar with wiring, BUT the goofy way this house (and I'm assuming older house wired with loose wires in conduit) drives me nuts, every outlet box, switch box, junction box has a ton of wires so adding in anything is always a major challenge. I have done a ton of wiring with Romex (we did all the wiring as a family in my parents house and addition) but when you have loose wires and things wired weirdly it throws me for a loop.

Featured Answer
  • 8 years ago

    Any time (here in the US) that you see 240v where you should be seeing 120v, you have an open neutral somewhere. That's a hazardous situation. You're lucky that you've only let the smoke out of the GDO -- so far.

    Are you by any chance in Chicago? A yellow hot suggests conduit wiring.

    The broken-out tab on the receptacle and the looped conductors suggest that you have a multiwire circuit to your kitchen. That means that a 240v, hot-hot-neutral circuit was brought from the panel to the kitchen, with top and bottom of the duplex receptacles wired on separate sides of the circuit. That circuit should be supplied by a 2-pole breaker (or two single-pole breakers with their handles tied together).

    For a MW circuit to work right and be safe, its neutral has to be continuous -- wired without any breaks, such that removing a receptacle won't open it. My guess is that somewhere, somehow, in your attempt to expand this circuit, you've managed to open that neutral.

    Some other concerns:

    It appears to me that there are too many wires in that box for its size (box fill). That's a code violation.

    It also appears that you may have connected AWG 14 wire to AWG 12 wire in that box. That's a code violation too, unless the circuit is protected at 15 amps. Even if it is, it's (IMO) poor workmanship.

    Now that you've extended the kitchen circuit, it will probably need to have GFI and AFCI protection added (check local codes). If you haven't installed them, that's a code violation.

    If indeed the garage is connected to the kitchen circuit, that's yet another code violation. That's probably on the previous owner.

    Please don't be offended, but you're in over your head with this project. You need help, fast, and not the kind you can get on the internet. Call a pro first thing in the morning. Please, cough up the cash to get this fixed right, before you fry more appliances and/or burn your house down.

    Comments (7)

    • 8 years ago
      last modified: 8 years ago

      Did you replace the 240 breakers with 120v?

      I’m not an electrician, but I see your pigtailed 12ga hot on one outlet and the 12ga common on the other, with the 14ga backstabbed on the opposite outlet. Not sure if those being switched has anything to do with it, but I’d start there. Is this a pic of the outlet before you replaced it, or after?

      Honestly, with all the what-ifs going on, I highly suggest calling in a professional to look over everything. He might be expensive, but you’ll get your garage door opener and toaster again, without causing any potential fires and light shows. Save your current skills for the easy stuff, but let a pro figure the rest out for you.

    • 8 years ago

      These are pics of the current state of the outlet... I literary unscrewed one wire from the old outlet to the new...

      I know it is screwed up (obviously LOL ), what didn't make sense to me is that the is no black on the feeder outlet other than the black I added in the press in connectors... The old outlet didn't have any black or reds connected either(at least that I remember) .


      I know that typically you have black and white on everything... so I am sure this is why it is doubling the output on the downstream outlets...


      i was hoping to get some help but I know this might need an expert to look at it to get it figured out.


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    • 8 years ago

      So you added the 14ga backstabbed wires? Anything else you added? I would remove all of it or turn those breakers off before anything worse happens

    • 8 years ago

      Good grief. Hire an electrician to get things right, before you dont have a house at all, and it could get worse. DIY is great, for a lot of things, but electricity and plumbing need to be done correctly, to avoid dangerous problems.

    • 8 years ago

      I'm not too far from doing that...


      Well I did some more poking around... I figured out the two kitchen circuits that are feeding the outlet... One yellow, one white. I did disconnect the garage and downstream outlet that were getting 240v and turned off the one circuit that isn't running the fridge so all outlets are now getting 120v...


      Determining what other outlets/devices are on both circuits I will cap off the yellow and connect the white to the and connect the outlet correctly to the red aka black... I will pull new wire from one of the 4 open breaker spots to the garage and make sure it is wired correctly.... Once I know I am down to 120v on the trouble outlet I will pull power from it back to the downstream outlet and verify if is getting 120v.


      I'm guessing both the brass and silver sides of the old outlet were split so that the outlet was running two seperate circuits.


      Did I mention I hate working in old electric in houses?

    • 8 years ago

      As soon as I saw 200+ volts, I thought messed up "multi wire". I have my doubts that feeding the garage off the kitchen circuit was counter to code in 1960, but I could be dead wrong. Electrical needs accelerated quickly after that and things changed.

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