Software
Houzz Logo Print
hzdeleted_3617434

10 Tests for You And Your Contractor’s First Meeting

8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago

Lots of people on here seem to have issues weeding out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to selecting a designer or contractor for work on your job. They may have never done a remodeling project, and not know how to select a Pro, or they may care more about the price than the result. But here is 10 first meeting tests that your future Pro should pass to be the one to select to do the job.

And the same can be said for those on the other side, the Pro’s. There’s a constant barrage of questions about how to deal with wacky customers who don’t pay, or who have unrealistic expectations, or tell you to go pee at the 7/11 down the street. The answer, as is it on the Customer side, is to Fire Them in Advance. Don’t take jobs from customers that don’t pass these tests. If you do decide to, despite their failing score, make the money worthwhile.

This is information that each side needs to know about the other. Both the Customer and the Pro need each other. And they want to make an equitable exchange of services for money. But, each also needs to understand when their behavior sends the other running screaming.

Consider this Aunt Sophie's Guide on How to Act Like an Adult When Considering Entering A Business Relationship. Its not Match dot Com’s questionnaire, but it hopefully sparks some self reflection in both sides.

___________

10 Tests to See if Your Potential Customer, or Your Potential Contractor, are a Good Match.

Pro Test #1. Will the customer set an initial appointment from M-F, 9-5. 4:30 is fine. 8:30 is fine. But if they are rigid and inflexible with their time, even scheduling 2 weeks out, they won’t be able to be flexible with anything on a project. Renovations demand flexibility.


Customer Test #1 is the professional willing to meet as the first or last appointment of the day so you can go in late or get off a bit early to be there. Do they offer to meet on a Saturday if your job is that demanding? Are they willing to go the extra mile when asked, with a good reason?


Pro Test#2 Are they punctual with keeping their appointment? Or are you left standing on the doorstep with no one home? And no phone call? Instant disqualification. Scheduling mixups should never happen in the case of shared electronic calendars and invitations to meetings from them.


Customer#2 is exactly the same. Punctuality and a phone call if traffic or other things interfere is just common courtesy. Be courteous and respectful of everyone’s time, no matter who you are.


Pro Test #3. Do they demand that you take off your clean street shoes? Not muddy work boots. Yes, really. Either the price just doubled if you stay, or you leave immediately. Do they seem nervous and caution you against brushing walls or knickknacks? Do they treat humans as less important than objects? If their home is a museum that needs ropes around the traffic path, then they have to expect to pay for that. Or not. If even money is not enough for the hassle, tell them you are not comfortable being the one doing their job and move on.


Customer#3, if they have come from a job site where they have soiled foot ware, do they automatically remove that? Does the designer wear shoes that would damage your floors? AKA spike heels? Do they park their work vehicles at the street or in your driveway? Walk on your grass? Bring a drink with them? Are they clods with no care for the value you place on your surroundings? Or do they treat your property with care and respect?


Pro Test #4. Do they invite you to go over their ideas? Do they have a Houzz Ideabook? Magazine clippings? A doodle sketch? Paperwork from a bank for a loan? Have they done any homework at all before your meeting? If you are their first attempt at research, then it’s a waste of time to try to get them over sticker shock and fantasy TV expectations. That’s a ballpark estimate for an immediate yes/no qualifier right there, after about a 10 minute pro forma conversation. . Or a higher price for the time it will take to educate them.


Customer #4 Can the pro show you, or talk about project’s with a similar scope that they have done in the past. Do they have a portfolio to show you? Houzz portfolio presence? Website? Reviews? What shows you that they are a good fit for what you want? 12 decks and a pergola isn't a kitchen contractor. Expect them to talk about similar jobs, or similar features that you’ve requested.


Pro Test #5 . Does the customer offer you a seat at the kitchen table to discuss the show and tell of the above? Offer something to drink? Treat you like a human being and a guest in their home? Or are you the hired help and expected to awkwardly stand around and try to view their computer screen while balancing a note pad, tape measure, tote bag, and your own tablet?


Customer #5 Does the Pro say “thank you” for your hospitality? Do they ask for 4 1/2 teaspoons of sugar and a precise 3 1/2 of cream in their coffee? Do they sit on your obviously spindly antique chair if they are heavy? If they accept your hospitality, do they make it involved and burdensome, or risky, to you? If they reject your hospitality, do they do so graciously. No, contractors don’t take a Miss Manners course, so don’t expect them to sit to a proper tea and know which fork to use. Cut them some slack. But expect basic courtesy from both directions.


Pro Test#6. Is the customer willing to discuss an estimated budget range for their project? Pay a retainer for work? Have they done any research at all on project costs beyond TV renotainment shows? “You tell me!” Is NOT an acceptable answer for a question about their research into the budget. Thats more aggressive than passive aggressive, but it’s a deal breaker. That’s a turn around and leave answer. If the Scope discussed in the conversation is at odds with the budget, or the neighborhood, there is no need to spend more time past a ballpark estimate, or even give them a worked up quote. Certainly no design work. . But, you should explain that. Yes, that usually makes them mad. But, eventually, after they hire the hack, or do more research, they may appreciate the honesty. If they don’t, the heck with em. If, price is the only thing they care about, and you don’t deal with flipper mentality, Let em go. Find that out early. Do not waste time creating an quote or doing any design work only to find a fundamental incompatibility. Get a retainer. It’s an immediate qualifier.


Customer #6 Is the contractor willing to discuss a basic cost range estimate for your project? “How much have you got to spend?” is not an acceptable answer to your question. Does he tell you that past projects with your desired work in your neighborhood ranged from H—L, while projects with a bit lesser scope (subtract 1,3,&7 ideas) or in a lesser costly neighborhood came in at C-F. Does he give a hint as to elements of your project that would make for a higher than average quote? “If you took this wall down rather than that one, we could save a pretty good amount. How important is it that that is the wall to come down?” You are both trying to find common ground for an exchange of funds for results. That means a realistic and frank conversation on the front end about priorities and budget. And remember that estimates are not quotes. A lot of work goes into giving you a contractible number. Don’t ask for that “just” to get more information. Be prepared to pay a retainer to get that much work. If you are not prepared to pay a Oro for the work they do, you are not prepared to do a job. Communication and goal alignment for you both is the goal.


Pro Test #7 Does the customer ask questions outside of just the scope work itself? Do they want to know you, and how you became a contractor, for instance? Do they want to know about your experience and past challenging projects? Do they want to know if you cook, and you specialize in renovating kitchens? Renovations are long, and you spend a lot of time together. If you’re expected to be a toaster oven who just makes toast, it’ll be even longer. No small talk, is not a complete deal breaker, but the fact that they see you as a toaster, and not a person, sure can be.


Customer #7. Does the Pro ask questions about the reasons behind some of your wants? Do they notice the photo with the prize fish displayed prominently and ask about that? Do they ask about your garden? Or sports team? You want them to treat you as more than just a check to be picked up. You want to connect with them on a couple of minimal levels beyond just if they can hammer a nail straight. Just like you do with your workmates. Cordial and professional social lubrication. Communication and goal alignment, again.


Pro Test #8 Does the customer have an unreasonable deadline included for expecting a quote, or for a project completion date? If they want a quote tomorrow? Nope. If they want to discuss a kitchen redo to be ready before Thanksgiving, and it’s May, that may be fine. If it’s October? Nope. They need to have a realistic time expectations, not a TV one.


Customer #8 Does the Pro give you a very preliminary job time estimate? Quote preparation time estimate? Deadlines are important to set, so you both can be on the same page for expectations. As in “product lead times are 6-8 weeks, and the work itself may take another 6-8”. Or do they offer an unrealistic timeline, such as “7 days to a new kitchen” type of salesmanship that cannot possibly be fulfilled? Do they explain why giving you a quote takes 14 days? Do they keep in touch with you, and you know that it’s because they couldn’t get their plumber in to take a look, that they will pass that 14 day time that they gave you? Communication and goal alignment, again.


Pro Test #9 How many other Pro’s has the customer talked to? 1-2 is sensible. 8-9 is them either looking for an unrealistic price, or something else unreasonable. What did the other Pro’s find out that you don’t know yet? That’s when you RUN. Or, you up your price to take care of the hazard pay. Some of the best customers are those at their wits end from dealing with flakey hacks, and if you act professional, the’ll throw money at you. It’s a judgement call. Unrealistic tightwad? Run. Somehow found a dozen flakes? Proceed with caution. WHY did they find nothing but flakes?


Customer Test #9. Well, there simply isn’t any conceivable circumstances in which a well prepared homeowner needs to interview 9-10 actual Pros before hiring one. So, this will go to the 2-3 that you did interview. Is each licensed and insured, and you’ve verified that with the contractor board and their insurance company? No point in not getting that out of the way up front first thing as a screening tool. What is this Pro’s strengths? Their weaknesses? How does that compare to others you talked to? Is someone with great communication, great organization, and a higher price worth hiring more than the late, sloppy, cheaper guy? (YES!) You are looking for someone who you can marry for 4 months, so who is going to work best for your personality? Who challenges your ideas in order for a better outcome for you? Who references doing work to industry standards, such as TCNA for tile, or NWFA for wood? Are they members of any trade organizations? Do they take continuing education classes? Are they good, but want to be better? These are all things that need to be thought about in that hour’s initial contact, and for the weeks following, as a quote is developed. Follow up with emailed questions if you forgot to ask them during the in person.


Pro Test#10. What kind of experiences have they had with a past renovation, or past contractor? “Nightmare” stories are rarely just the contractor at fault. Sometimes, is is. But. If every person they have had in their home is a complaint, they will not be satisfied, and they will complain about you too. If the AC repairman “cheated” them, and the mow and blow guy is “careless”, and the guy who put in the piped in outdoor grill “just stopped answering phone calls”, RUN AWAY. If they had a “mostly positive” experience with their deck build, and acknowkedged that maybe they owned part of the communication issues that happened, that’s the customer you want. Unhappy people won’t be happy with your work either.


Customer #10. When you mention that you have talked with Contractor B or D, do they immediately get defensive and start badmouthing them? Or do they acknowledge them as a competitor, and then try to highlight their positives in comparison. “We have 50 years of experience with zero BBB complaints ever. Please do check out everyone you are considering with that BBB Record and business longevity in mind.” Is far different than “Greenacres Construction has a bunch of complaints that never got resolved. It’s all over the BBB. Look at it if you don’t believe me” And this is where you have to perk up your antenna and read between the lines to do your due diligence. You also want to ask abou how miscommunications , or change orders went with past clients. Everyone has those clients that make them want to pull their hair out. But no Professional really gives any details beyond a rough, non identifying sketch.


An appointmenet between a Pro and a Customer to discuss a project is a job interview that goes both ways. If a homeowner think that just because they have money, that they are king, then that’s not a job that most Pros will want to take without additional compensation to make it worthwhile to endure. And a Pro that thinks that just because he has a license and insurance, gives him reign to be late, sloppy, and disrespectful, needs to be fired on the front end before he is hired. It won’t get better if you do hire him.

Renovations are partnerships. They are two way streets on everything.

Comments (90)

  • 7 years ago

    Sophie--I just saw this--THIS IS GREAT--

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    This is an old thread that Sophie started way back in June, and has made no recent contribution to. Is she really back?

  • 7 years ago

    Brilliant idea to bump this awesome thread!

  • 7 years ago

    Love this advice. Half way through my remodel and it is like you are living with them. Make sure that you can.

  • 7 years ago

    Janie, she would say sure do an Ikea kitchen if you have no budget and are DIY! She, and many others will be missed here. Cyberspace is big though.

  • 7 years ago

    Sophie is not back. She was reinstated conditionally. If one person flagged for for any reason she would be banned permanently. That’s not exactly a real reinstate,ent.

  • 7 years ago

    Oh--Sophie can be annoying--but I hope she does get to stay

  • 7 years ago

    No she can’t stay, the new Terms she is under make it impossible and ludicrous. 1 flag and out she goes permanently. Big question, what is so threatening thst any thread with this topic are immediately dissappeared? Feels like we are in a different country I,e, North Korea!

  • 7 years ago
    It sounds like there would be no evaluation as to whether a flag was warranted, just the simple fact of being flagged, even if for just showing up. That is unfair.
  • 7 years ago
    • Janet, you got it! Also notice the absence of so many pros and knowledgeable lay persons from new posters seeking advice.
  • 7 years ago

    Did anyone else get email from Houzz "Tell us how we did. We're listening." It asked to rate the support experience on a five star scale, but so far as I could tell, there was no way to select stars. When I hit the reply button, either nothing happened or possibly the response was the default five star rating.

  • 7 years ago

    Bump

  • 7 years ago

    This is such valuable advice. I am looking for a contractor soon for a bathroom remodel. I was going to search for contractors in my area using Houzz, but I don't trust this site anymore. I feel they will continue to sensor and only show me things they will make money from. I prefer an unbiased website. Shame on you Houzz. You have admitted guilt by 'reinstating' Sophie's account. Instead of doing what is right and desired by the rest of the Houzz community, you have given a conditional agreement.

  • 7 years ago

    This site is no longer the same without the banished and those who departed in support. This is readily apparent by new requests for advice on various forums, including home building. Houzz, it appears, will not budge.):

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    Pro Test #3. is hilarious, yet so true, right on point.

  • 7 years ago
    After having gone through 3 years of renovations, I can attest that this is so true, and so valuable. Sophie is authentic and a treasure, and tells it like it is.
  • 7 years ago
    I didn’t realize Sophie had been banned. I protest! Houzz needs her experience and honesty of opinion. Bring her back!
  • 7 years ago

    Peeved - I noticed too over the weekend that some posters got quite bad advice, without the usual experts around to counterbalance it it. Quite sad to see how Houzz has dealt with this and been willing to cut off their nose to spite their face, so to speak.

  • 7 years ago

    You can always counter that "bad advice" with some good advice of your own.

  • 7 years ago

    Actually, I can’t. I’m not a pro, just an interested amateur with enough experience to recognize bad advice, but not always enough to give better advice. And I think many of the very valuable pros are feeling understandably and appropriately unwilling to continue giving Houzz the value of their free advice when Houzz is treating one of their own so poorly.

  • 7 years ago

    following

  • 7 years ago
    I remember Joseph Corlett mentionig once that all his contributions to Houzz had garnered him one $300 job. More take than give, IMHO.
  • 7 years ago

    My one concern with follow-up comments on this post in particular, given it's value, is not wanting to get it disappeared. So I'm sitting on my hands and biting my tongue as a follow-up to jmm's comment.

    Of course, if posts like this -- and Buehl's long-standing Kitchen forum info post -- were truly valued, the moderators/folks in charge would turn them into proper permanent posts/stickies.

  • 7 years ago

    I for one am not interested in Houzz "caving." I am interested in the free and open exchange of ideas on a democratic internet.

  • 7 years ago

    I'll delete my comment.

  • 7 years ago

    Rita, I didn't mean for you to delete yours. I just wanted to explain that there's something I wish I could add to jmm's comment. Argh. This is all so frustrating.

  • 7 years ago

    Since CPArtist's latest thread just went poof, I made a PDF of this one for future reference- in case we need it- though I have serious misgivings about using someone's work for the benefit of H.

  • 7 years ago

    beckysharp, I totally did not take your comment personally. I just thought out of an abundance of caution it would be better to leave this thread as is, instead of what it was turning into.

  • 7 years ago

    One of Sophie's best posts right here.

    Rita, that's a good idea to capture the info in case the Houzz police decide to make it disappear.

  • 7 years ago

    CPArtist thread disappeared before I even saw it?

    (i know that's probably a rhetorical question)

    Makes me so sad, all this


  • 7 years ago

    Hey it’s still around But as time and life goes on, it will fizzle out, sadly. New posters will come and will not know the difference. They will not miss the sage advice, the humour, even tho cynical at times or even hard to take! Not only will the banished be missed but those who are leaving in support.

  • 7 years ago

    Late yesterday afternoon and last night (I'm on the west coast) I started to see comments from CP and some one else saying "no comment." I figured I knew what that was about as this had been discussed previously-the idea of withholding comments as a protest. One comment linked CP's thread for an explanation but it was already in the "page not found" category.

    I too will save Sophie's original thread above as it is INVALUABLE for experienced remodelers and newbies alike.


  • 7 years ago
    This is a great post and I wish we would have followed his advice. We hired contractor that was referred to us and some been in business for years! We are now paying for work to be redone. They were the nicest people but obviously overwhelmed and not up to date .
    New contractor also referred and at least things are moving along but it almost seems like we are our own GC’s and they have been so careless with our property. We missed a few marks on her advice and I am sure we would have avoided some of the problems if we had those points checked off.
    Learning that mistakes are sometimes made and no one is perfect but it’s how they handle and rectify these issues and mainly what they/we could have done to avoid some of those issues in the first place.

    This whole rebuild has been a nightmare. -
    she forgot - hire a designer if you can ( or have no design abilities) .
  • 7 years ago

    This post helped me to find the right contractor. I am so thankful ....

    I posted this on another thread, Perhaps it will be deleted.


    I have found those with highly creative intelligence can sometimes come across as brutal. Artist friends, game designers, engineers, research doctors... are sometimes so beyond my level of understanding that I can't keep up. They have a quick mind. I need to process the thoughts while they are on to the next idea. They may seem harsh but it is because they are coming directly to the point. No frills just facts! They aren't wasting time with the niceties when the problem needs to be solved.

    Sophie was one of those people. She was facts no frills. I learned so much from her and found myself laughing out loud at her humor. Was I ever hurt by SW? Sure, she was harsh but not to me, only to the design. It is easy to forget that text is very different than in person. I believe if we had ever met in person it would not have felt harsh. She once told me I needed to use a jackhammer on my space. But she is 100% correct. We did exactly that. Our reno started with a Jackhammer to the space. She was right! Another time she used the term "Looks not Cooks" for a range I was looking at that seemed like a bargain. Again she was 100% correct. I miss her and if she is reading this. I hope she knows many of us miss her and NEED her intelligence, creativity and direction.

    MIss you Sophie, I hope wherever you are, they appreciate your brilliant mind and creative intelligence.


  • 7 years ago

    This is such a valuable thread that it deserves to get bumped.

  • 7 years ago

    It appears Sophie is back. At least her profile page is back up, though I see no recent activity. :-(

  • 7 years ago
    Looks like another thread just bit the dust :(
  • 7 years ago

    Seriously? Ugh.

  • 7 years ago

    jmm, yes saw that one go poof too!

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    We probably should not talk about Sophie and Houzz's support on these threads or we'll lose them.

  • 7 years ago

    grover and others if you're on Facebook, search for icookinmykitchen. Request to join Aunt Sophie's Corner.

  • 7 years ago

    In other news I can post from my phone again! Happy Day!!

  • 7 years ago

    Janie your first looks like a personal account. The second is what you're looking for.

    Trying to be cryptic.

  • 7 years ago

    Lindsey, oh thank you!

  • 7 years ago

    Probably not a bad idea

  • 7 years ago

    Love it!

  • 7 years ago

    Great to see this back.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    FYI...this thread is linked in the "Other Items of Interest" topic in the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread. So, there shouldn't be a need to bump this thread up to the top and knock someone else's request for help today off the first page.