Floor outlets below ground level?

8 years ago

We purchased a 1950s house in Florida last year. It is built on a slab on ground level. Consistent with midcentury styling, there is a sunken living space in the living room that goes around 15 inches below ground level. There are two electrical outlets in the floor of the sunken area. This is the only way to get power to the sunken area without stringing very visible wires from other rooms. On three occasions when we had heavy rain in the height of rainy season, the outlets have gotten water in them. After the second time, I had an electrician take a look. The floor boxes are tiled in with grout/concrete, so we couldn't remove them, so the electrician added a bunch of caulk to all the seams/gaps in the box. We got through another nine months without problems, but that could have been related to the dry season -- and not necessarily because of the caulk. Then had the problem again last month. This last time, the water went all the way to the top of the box and the outlet was hot and buzzing. I immediately flipped the breaker, and had an electrician come out the next morning and disconnect the run that goes to those outlets.

I'm happy with this decision for safety reasons, but not thrilled that we now have no power source in the living area. We don't run major electronics in this area, but would like some lamps, etc.

We are planning on replacing the tile floors next year. While we have the floors up, i'm wondering if there are any safer/more reliable ways to get power back in those floor outlets. Are there boxes that can guarantee no water intrusion? Any other solutions?

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Comments (7)

mtvhike
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
So when water got into your outlets, was the floor flooded or did it get in from under the slab? What you do after you break up the floor and examine the wiring will have to wait until you actually examine it!
H202
Original Author
8 years ago
The water is coming in somehow from the outlet boxes themselves. The floors are not flooded. The water intrusion source is either a break somewhere in the electrical boxes, or where the box meets the tile floor (i.e., as the water level rises under the slab, water is either leaking into the box itself, or is rising up the outsides of the boxes until it gets to the top and then goes into the boxes. We ultimately end up with a small puddle of water on the floor around the outlets -- but this water is clearly coming from the boxes and not from another source.

I guess my question is: Once we tear out the floor and get to the concrete slab, we can remove the existing outlet boxes and put whatever we want there. But we won't be tearing out the slab. so whatever goes there were continue to have water surrounding it when it rains. Is it possible to find new boxes that will be able to withstand that water?
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mtvhike
8 years ago
If you're just going to retile, then you won't correct the water problem. However, once the tiles are off, you have other options, short of tearing out the slab. At that point, engage an electrician to examine your situation. It's probably not worth doing that until the tile is removed. Normal electrical boxes are not waterproof (they have screw holes, etc. in them).
kudzu9
8 years ago
I doubt it's simply a box problem. I suspect that the wires may have been run in metal conduit and groundwater is getting in at the mechanical couplers that connect the pieces of conduit since such couplers are not necessarily waterproof. Even if they used waterproof connectors, one of them could have failed, and/or the metal conduit may have rusted through. To remedy this, your best bet would be to run the wire through PVC conduit as this is glued at connection points and would be waterproof. However, if the PVC conduit doesn't run all the way back to a point that is above the groundwater table, this won't work. Whatever you do, if there is a way to get new boxes up out of the floor, you should do that, too.
greg_2015
8 years ago
Why don't you just get some outlets installed in the walls and abandon these recessed outlets?

I don't think any boxes/conduit is designed to be waterproof. If wires are being run somewhere where there is water, then the wires themselves are waterproof because water will get into the conduit. And obviously outlets shouldn't be underwater.

So it's the water that's the problem, not the wiring. If you aren't going to be fixing the water issue, then move the boxes so that they are above the water line.
greg_2015
8 years ago
If you do decide to just keep slapping a band-aid on the problem, I'd suggest replacing the breaker with a GFCI breaker so that it will trip when the water inevitably gets in there.
DavidR
8 years ago
It sounds like you have a high water table and/or drainage problems with saturated ground under your slab. If that's true, there's no wiring system I can think of that's going to be safe and acceptable. There are weatherproof boxes, but they're meant to resist rain, not to be mounted underwater, and I'm afraid that's effectively where they are right now.

Buried conduit is code-defined as a wet area, so I don't think that's the answer, be it metal or PVC.

If you want to keep receptacles in the floor, it seems to me the only answer is to fix your drainage problem. I suspect that the floor -- at least the pit area, maybe the entire floor -- will have to be torn up and a proper drainage system installed under it.

I'm no expert on such matters, but I'd guess that would mean tiles or perforated pipe leading to a sump crock and its sump pump somewhere. Maybe someone with more knowledge will have ideas.

If that's what it takes, I suggest that you make sure the sump pump has backup power.

Another thought though. You say this area is sunk 15". Wouldn't the sides of it be considered walls? And if so, wouldn't they have to meet the modern 6' code rule (no space along a wall may be further than 6' from a receptacle)? Could you abandon the floor receptacles, have receptacles installed on the 15" walls instead? Assuming that area stays dry, that is.