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Kitchen Design Advice

Dayana Emmanuel
4 days ago

We are in the beginning phase of remodeling our kitchen and I need some advice on the kitchen layout our KD gave us. We currently have a small 10x10 kitchen and an adjoining 10x10 dining room. We're planning on making the space one big kitchen with a center island with seating for a family of 5. We want the island to accommodate 3 teenagers that do HW and snack and also allow the 5 of us to sit and have a quick meal together. The new dining room will be located in the space next to the kitchen in an open floor layout.



Comments (38)
  • PRO
    Anglophilia

    Get a new kitchen designer. This is not a good plan at all.

    Dayana Emmanuel thanked Anglophilia
  • queenvictorian

    That little cavernous nook to the right of the fridge is going to be a dead zone/junk mail graveyard. Why is the fridge centered and positioned so it breaks up the counter space? What is the opening to the right of the fridge for? Wine fridge?


    I'd move the fridge and its flanking full height cabinets all the way to the right (actually both full height cabinets to the right of the fridge so the door doesn't interfere with the fridge door) so you have more contiguous (useful) counter space.

  • PRO
    Main Line Kitchen Design

    I agree with both comments above and without dimensions additional advice will not be meaningful. Your Island may not work at all depending on the dimensions of the kitchen. Certainly it wouldn't work if the room dimensions were anywhere close to the 10' x 10' space you mention. Were that the case there would be 14 inches in front and back of the island. There would need to be about 15 feet from the back refrigerator wall to the range wall for the design shown to actually work.

  • Dayana Emmanuel

    Queenvictorian that opening to the right of the fridge is a desk area. We thought to add one in because it looked like too much floor to ceiling cabinetry and a desk there could could be functional as a workspace. The KD didn't put the fridge all the way to the right because there isn't enough wall space to fit our 36" deep refrigerator without changing out the sliding door, which we wouldn't be against if need be. I'm just not digging the plan and wanted to get others opinions. Our original thought was to place the refrigerator where the range is, the range where the sink is and the sink in the center island and the full wall could be used for pantry and a kitchen buffet with a mini fridge in the middle. We were also thinking to have the island turned the other way. KD said the kitchen turned this way makes for bettering walkway area. What do you think?

  • muskokascp

    In order to receive the most meaningful design advice and suggestions, please first provide the floor plan with measurements of all walls, doorways and windows. Best to also include the adjoining rooms as well so the entire flow pattern can be assessed.

  • mimimomy

    So if I'm understanding correctly, the width of the kitchen/dining area is 10?


    And you're having cabinets on both sides (one with a fridge). So, let's say 2' for cabinets on each side... that equals 4 feet... leaves 6 feet in the middle for an island and walking space... if you make the island just 2 feet wide, you have 4 feet of walking space, split between 2 sides-- so two feet on each side. And this is all not accounting for greater depth of frig nor countertops that extend further than the edge of a cabinet.


    If a kitchen designer drew this, there is something seriously the matter. Are you sure your kitchen is 10'x10'? And your dining room?


    Do you have photos of your existing kitchen and dining room?


    Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding, or you meant your original kitchen was 14x14 or something...


  • Dayana Emmanuel

    Main Line Kitchen Design, the kitchen would be 20 feet wide. The refrigerator to the range is 14 feet. I've been researching the work triangle and most posts I read say it shouldn't be more than 9 feet apart. Any thoughts?

  • Dayana Emmanuel

    Anglophilia, what are the main issues you would fix in the design?

  • Dayana Emmanuel

    Sorry, for the confusion. The kitchen is going to be 20 ft wide.

  • Terri Clark
    I am wondering, since you have the island and table in close proximity, if the desk space will ever get used. I think you should seriously consider. Everyone is going to use the island, where they are facing and involved in the activity. Sitting in the corner with their back to the room will feel excluded. I also would consider putting both full length cabinets together on one side of fridge. maybe make the desk space all pantry.
  • luckyblueeye

    Don't worry about the triangle, have someone help you with the correct zones that work in the correct order, and then you will have great flow and good function.

  • mimimomy

    It would be a big help if you could have a drawing showing all dimensions :)

  • Dayana Emmanuel

    Sorry, I don't have the exact dimensions from KD yet. The kitchen width is 20 ft wide. The center island will be 5ft x 9ft.

  • mimimomy

    Post when you get them!

  • PRO
    Main Line Kitchen Design

    If you can't take the time to measure the kitchen around all the walls, doors, and windows to at least the inch then please don't ask for help. You are way out of your depth and need to be working with a kitchen designer better than this one here. You can't determine the size of the island without all of these exact dimensions.

  • zmith

    Hi, Dayana

    The main problem I see with this plan is that you have a traffic path from the french doors through a prep zone that includes the refrigerator. And then you intend to have seating at the island, which I am guessing will be on the refrigerator side? First, you don't appear to have adequate clearance for seating (min. 60 inches) and you don't have proper landing space for taking contents out of the refrigerator.

    Your designer needs to provide you with a 2D floor plan that indicates where the island seating will be and all aisles, doors, wall lengths, etc. need to be dimensioned.

    Help us help you. :)

  • artistsharonva

    Bad design because. ..

    Fridge pulled out in front of door walkway

    Sink not centered to window

    Island location obstructing walk through


  • Dayana Emmanuel
    Thank you for your helpful comments. I posted updated pics with some dimensions. Please let me know what you think of the design layout.
  • artistsharonva



    Too congested, because,

    -doors are as wide as they look, they may hit the deeper cabinets. it is mentioned they're sliding doors, so just make sure they stay sliding & not hinge inside.

    - if someone seated in front of fridge, then person opening fridge will be in eachother's way


    - the person sitting to far right corner of island will block that walkway

    - sink not centered to window

  • PRO
    B.C.B. inc
    I’m thinking you should look at a way to combine the island and the table in such a way one unit will accommodate both features.
  • AnnKH

    Not every kitchen needs an island.

    I like ArtistSharonva's thoughts on putting the kitchen at the front and the dining room at the back - especially since you added the info about the front door and the bay window. But now that we know about the window, I would put the sink on that end, range on the left wall, and fridge beyond that. I know that violates "ice-water-fire", but it provides a good prep and cleanup space, and puts the fridge closer to the dining area.

    Some red flags on the original design: the angled upper cabinet in the corner (most people prefer an easy-reach corner cabinet); not enough drawers; the fridge wall is all symmetry, very little function.

    I agree with the others about the desk. My Mom had a desk in her kitchen, and used it regularly, but she was very organized, and never let things pile up on the desk. Most people aren't that disciplined - especially when the desk is right inside a door. I had a desk in my kitchen that was a catch-all; when I wanted to do bills or other "desk" work, I sat at the kitchen table, 3 steps away. In my new kitchen, I designed a built-in "command center" to house all the desk-related stuff - file drawers, office supplies, calendar and magnetic white board (inside cabinet doors), charging station. I love having all that stuff out of sight.

  • PRO
    B.C.B. inc
    What about changing the table to a three sided bench seating? Use space under the seating for storage.
  • artistsharonva

    Annkh, good idea, a command center to command the catch all stuff. Command the catch all clutter;)

  • artistsharonva

    Dayanna, where did you find your KD?

    With all due respect, there some beginner mistakes in the layout proposal. I would definitely recommend checking they're credentials & pass jobs.

    A kitchen is a big investment & I'm truly concerned about that layout.

    I'm glad you're reaching out on Houzz.

  • Dayana Emmanuel
    I’m not 100% sold on the desk idea in the design. I like the command center idea where the clutter is out of sight.
  • Dayana Emmanuel
    My KD designed my friend’s kitchen and I love the way it came out
  • Dayana Emmanuel
    BCB do you mean instead of an island just do a 3 sided bench table?
  • townlakecakes

    The measurement of 141” on the right side appears to be wrong. I estimate that’s around 8’, or 96”.

    The sink is directly in the line of sight from the front door.

    Where is the living area?

    And I suspect *both* countertop areas on the fridge wall will become clutter magnets. Where do you currently use the computer? Couch? Kitchen table? Office? I know exactly 1 person that actually uses their kitchen desk for its designated purpose. If you must

  • Dayana Emmanuel
    The living area is in the den in the bottom split of the house. We use the laptop on the little kitchen island we have now.
    I’m leaning towards no desk in the kitchen. Im thinking to have a cabinet where we keep misc papers instead so it’s out of sight.
  • artistsharonva

    I hope you discuss the concerns others have mentioned above with your , so you can get a kitchen as nice as your friends.

  • Dayana Emmanuel
    Thank you. I’ll bring up the issues with KD. I’m glad I posted the layout, the opinions have been very helpful.
  • mama goose_gw zn6OH

    I realize I'm going against the flow, but I think it could work. The shortcomings have been pointed out, and OP, you also mentioned the distance between the fridge and range. If you make the desk area a full-height shallow pantry (at least as wide as one side of the French door) with a deeper, but narrow, pantry cabinet between it and the fridge, you can move the fridge closer to the sink wall. It would still be a couple of steps outside the recommended max distance, but unless it can be recessed into the wall to the right of the range, I see no other location. The area to the left of the fridge could become a coffee/breakfast/snack area, with the MW on a shelf. If you plan to plumb for the fridge, you could also include a small sink (if drain is not an issue).

    I'd reduce the island to 7.5' x 4', which would give you space for 5 seats. You could then make the counter and pantry cab beside the fridge extra deep, to provide estra space for small appliances on the counter. I'd recommend drawers wherever possible, rather than cabinets with doors.


  • artistsharonva

    It will cost more, but if the bay window can be lifted pass countertop height, more possibilities are available.







  • Dayana Emmanuel
    Mama goose I agree with making the island smaller. I like the coffee station idea and moving the fridge closer but it doesn’t look symmetrical.
    Artistsharon that’s an interesting layout but it may not be feasible with the plumbing and gas line etc. im thinking to move the fridge where the range is and move the range where the sink is and sink to the island and make that side wall a buffet area and pantry. And make the island smaller like mama goose suggested to seat the 5 of us. What do you think?
  • artistsharonva

    Mamagoose gives great suggestions a lot on Houzz. I like Mamagoose's suggestions on this post, too.. I think you're on the right track. That works much better.

    The idea of the bay window & moving plumbing, etc is definitely more costly, but I thought I would share a possibility, just in case the lottery is won;).

    I have seen people raise bay windows to make space under for countertop height, or not as high for sitting booth, benches with storage underneath.

    Here's some bay window ideas for bench height.







    For countertop height.







  • mama goose_gw zn6OH

    I don't think you can have better function without giving up symmetry on the fridge wall. Even with a smaller island, it will be a barrier, and the fridge and seating will overlap. Making the pantries more narrow will put the fridge a few inches closer to the sink, and give you more space for the coffee/snack area (drawing on right), while keeping symmetry immediately on fridge sides.

    The rough rearrangement on the left is your last idea. If the fridge is no longer on the left wall, the island could be deeper--up to 5'. I like the more efficient work triangle, but it leaves very little prep space beside the sink. After rinsing items, you could move to the end of the island, opposite the range, when you need a wider prep and staging area. In that layout you could have separate cooktop and wall ovens (red box).

    In the plan on the left there is no convenient spot to store dishes, and the clean-up zone is on display to the hallway--and easily seen from the main entry. Anyone on clean-up duty would be working with his back m/l to the hallway.

    ETA another plan, but this one also has drawbacks. The fridge is closer to the prep and cooking zones, but is separated by the traffic from the French doors. It's convenient for anyone coming from the hallway, but also visible from the front entry.

    The work aisle is only 48", which is a nice width, but the wider aisle behind the seats might help divert traffic in that direction. The pantry is in the bump-out, with an appliance garage in the corner, and a small sink, which takes advantage of the existing plumbing. Or you could put a second sink on the island, which is more tied into the work zones in this plan.

    Clean-up and dish storage is convenient to the dining area.

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