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Bought a LG washer to replace a Miele 4800, having doubts, need help

February 10, 2019

I purchased my Miele 4800 washer back in January 2009. Despite needing several expensive repairs (water inlets) I LOVED that I could get a true hot wash and an effortless high spin. The washer started acting up about 6 months ago (incomplete spin/very wet soapy clothes), so I decided to replace rather than repair it. I waved a sad goodbye to the 300 lb tank as the installers hauled it up my steep basement stairs.

After some research, I decided to purchase the LG 4370 as LG appears to have good reliability and are easy to repair. I really like extra spray nozzles that come into play during various cycles and the thorough rinsing. My clothes are clean and soft. What I am struggling with is the lack of a hot wash and the dreaded water hammer.

I am finding there is no difference between the warm and hot temp in most of the cycles (heavy duty, whitest whites, cotton). Both temp selections give me 104 degree water, but I like hotter water for sheets, whites, towels, and underwear. The washer also seems to spend more time deciding to spin than the Miele did.

The other issue is the water hammering. My 1957 rambler has old copper pipes. I have installed arrestors on the back of the washer, but I can still hear a clunk upstairs every time the water inlet valve opens and closes. The washer hoses also "jump" with the opening and closing and I fear it will cause damage to the water supply pipes.

My choices:

-keep the LG, try to find some work arounds for hot washes, not worry about the pipes or try new hoses?

-return the washer and pay a restocking fee, pick out something else?

My 2 top choices for replacement are the Electrolux 627 or the Miele WWF060 (the bottom end one without the twindos.)

I know the Miele will give me the hot washes I want, but at a higher cost than the Electrolux. I have also read that Electrolux washers are not reliable. I tend to sort into small loads, but I have 2 boys that will likely be very tall teenagers in about 3-6 years. And a husband with stinky workout clothes.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Comments (20)

  • dadoes

    Changing the hoses won't help with the water hammer.

    Miele's are supposed to last 20 to 25 years, even though a few repairs may occur. Seems that didn't work so well for you. :-(

    You'll need to use the Sanitary or Allergiene cycle to get hotter water. The user manual indicates Bright Whites cycle allows the Extra Hot temperature, that doesn't work for you? Try it with the highest soil level for more heating time.

    schneemaid thanked dadoes
  • luna123456

    Miele residential washers are designed for 10,000 hours of use. Not 20 years. The 20 year thing is based on a few loads per week. Most people do more than that. The upside is that all the Miele washer/dryers have hour meters built-in. So if you do a load per day every day (averaged out over the year) and each cycle is around 90 minutes long then you will put 547.50 hours on per year. That means your washer will last 18 years. If you do more loads than that then your appliance will reach end of life sooner.

    Most LG, Samsung, etc. devices are designed for 3000 to 5000 hours of use. In high use homes this may mean they get burned up in 3-5 years or even less.

    You have discovered most appliances don’t publish or meet their set temps for their wash cycles. European brands are about the only ones that don’t lie about the wash water temps. Bosch and Miele are the two best brands for reliably meeting their wash set temps.

    schneemaid thanked luna123456
  • MiMi

    Does your new LG not have the extra hot water option? Like dadoes said you can’t use it on every cycle but the cycles that allow it should meet your needs

    Dadoes... I was thinking on mine that using the bright whites cycle wouldn’t let me choose extra hot water setting but I’ll look at that tomorrow to be sure

    Water hammer issue would not work for me, my lg doesn’t got have this problem. I’m sorry yours does this

    Over all I’m quite pleased with my LG and have found I use about 2or 3 of the. Cycles. My favorite being perm press, it uses plenty of water and does a great job of cleaning. The towels cycle is next then cotton/normal. It uses the least water but if I have something filthy it really gets the job done.

    The lg dryer in another story ... I’d like to take a hammer to it.... 2months into owning it a high limit switch went out. ONE day before the manufacturers wannanty went out the company that LG set the service up with came out. It started severely shuddering and shaking during a load, didn’t matter if it was a light or heavy load. The repair company sent Sears out... a woman. Of course it woukd not duplicate the problem .... nothing I tried could make it

    it would run a few minutes into the cycle and start shuddering and shaking. I had researched and things I read said either a belt issue or roller wheels

    she looked it me as if I had 4 eyes telling her about the problem and the research that said it’s a very common problem. So she patted it a little on the top and ask if I’d considered an extra warranty. Told her I have one thru Lowe’s. Which will start the day after she left

    swears she’s never seen this problem before .... even after I showed her the video I took Said she wasn’t gonna move it cause it’s too heavy ...did nothing but stand there and look at it... nothing. Worthless worrthless reapair purse I’ve ever seen!

    So now I’m going to write negative reviews on every lg website I can find....

    in the meantime once it starts this I don’t stop it just gonna let it do it till it blows up...

  • jwvideo

    >>>" European brands are about the only ones that don’t lie about the wash water temps ..."<<<

    Well, that can be qualified a bit. The Bosch and Miele models sold here in North America do seem to meet the target temps as Luna says, and numbers of users here have verified. But, other European models do fudge the facts according to Which? (the UK equivalent of Consumer Reports). They ran a test on 12 washers which had settings for 60°C cotton whites wash cycles. Eight of the 12 models produced wash temps well below 60° C. IIRC, their findings were published four or five years ago.

    Schneemaid, since you are looking at compact models like the current Miele W-1 washers, have you also looked at the Electrolux compact model, the EFLS210, as a possible alternative to the full size EFLS627? According to Yale Appliance's recent reports on service rates on models they sold, the European built EFLS210 has been much more reliable than the full-size Electrolux models like the EFLS627. Apparently, YA had enough trouble with the full size Electrolux washers over the last few years that they stopped carrying that brand. This might seem contradicted by Consumer Reports survey results where its members report that Electrolux washers have above-average ("very good") reliability for the first five years of ownership. However, the fine print in the CR listings says that their statistics exclude product failures covered by warranty or service agreements.

    schneemaid thanked jwvideo
  • schneemaid

    I don‘t hear any pipe noise standing next to the washer, but I can hear something echoing upstairs with both the opening and closing of the valve. The supply hose also moves as the washer fills.

    The only cycles that allow extra hot are sanitary and cotton/normal. LGs website claims that a hot wash should be 122 degrees on whitest whites but I am not finding that to be true.

  • dadoes

    Heating takes time at 120 volts. Set the soil level to maximum (if that's not the default) next time you run Bright Whites, see if that garners a higher temperature. Your other choice is Sanitary.

    Luna ... just to say ... I have a Fisher & Paykel toploader (typically comes in at or near the bottom of reliability ratings) bought in July 1999 so it's coming up on 20 years in 5 months. The *only* repair on it thus far is replacement of the pump. It passed from me, to my grandmother, to my sister when granny died, then to my nephew when he moved into an apartment after college (his now-fiancée moved in two apartments ago).

    schneemaid thanked dadoes
  • armjim

    I do not miss my LG one moment. I didn't do small loads nor did I cram it full beyond being reasonable, and it never wanted to do a final spin without spending 10-15 minutes of rebalancing the load if it was a full load. The water hammer issue drove me crazy. No other washer fills in such a manner-why LG made machines? Since you are not thrilled, consider exchanging now before it becomes a battle. You will probably never learn to like the set.

    schneemaid thanked armjim
  • schneemaid

    I think the Electrolux compact is a top contender right now—I might come out even with restocking fees, etc. It could be a good introduction to using a smaller washer as I hope to have another Miele down the road but it is a touch out of my price range.

  • luna123456

    Sorry about the Miele price. I know they cost a LOT. As far as longevity of a washer, I put very little stock in reports of items lasting 19 years, 20 years, etc. Without knowing how much laundry has been through them the length of time they have been in a house means little. A car will last 20 years easy if it's taken care of and the owner drives very few miles per year.

    The same is true of washers and dryers. Items like bearings and suspension have a known usable life. For Miele residential appliance they design them for 10,000 hours of use. If a person meets that 10,000 hours of use in 5 years or 20 years can really skew perceptions of "durability." For that reason it is important to know the number of hours the appliance has been in use when it has a repair that is too expensive to perform. Did the washer have more hours that the manufacturer designed it for, close to it or significantly less?

    If buying a used Miele you can at least see how many hours are on the appliance and then make an educated guess at how much life the purchaser will get out of it.

    Most residential washer and dryer sets are designed for 5000 of less hours of use. If you can get a manufacturer to tell you how many hours they design them to last, that would tell you the value of the appliance compared to a Miele. Take the Miele top end WWH860. If you pay $2000 for it and it lasts 10,000 hours then the per hour cost of owning it (minus all other input costs) is $.20/hour. If a normal cycle is on average 1.5 hours then the per cycle cost $.30.

    If you pay $1100 for an LG/Samsung/Electrolux and it lasts 5000 hours then the per hour cost is $.22 and the per cycle cost is $.33. My guess is that in the end you wind up paying about the same per wash whether you do it in a Miele or an LG/Samsung/Whirpool. One machine will last you longer, probably wither fewer problems and better wash performance.

    If you take a Miele professional model, such as the PW6080, which is the same capacity as the WWH860, and do the same numbers it will come out cheaper. Cost is $4500 for the washer, designed for 30,000 hours of use. That means a per hour cost of .15. Since each cycle is usually done in an hour or less due to faster heaters, then the per cycle cost is also around $.15 or about HALF the cost of the residential unit. It just costs more upfront to purchase.

  • schneemaid

    I really just want to be able to select a hot wash and know the water is hotter than 104. I need to research if the compact Electrolux can do that, otherwise I will make room in the budget for the Miele W1. The entry level one has all the cycles I would need.

    Edited to add, despite the issues with my 4800 I believe Miele makes a good washer.

  • jwvideo

    >>>" I really just want to be able to select a hot wash and know the water is hotter than 104. I need to research if the compact Electrolux can do that, "<<<

    It does seem to be able to do that as far as I could tell from checking out the compact Electrolux recently. While it was difficult to find much in the way of in depth reviews that got into the details like actual temperatures, I did find a Q&A response from Electrolux Support on the Home Depot webpage for the EFLS210 where the company responded to a question like yours. The responding rep said:

    "The temperature of the cold water when it enters the washer will be whatever temperature you have your home set to. On an Energy Star cycle [warm setting?] it will be around 100°F, on the regular cycle [hot setting?] it will be around 120°F, and on a sanitize cycle it will be around 152°F."

    Because this seemed unclearly incomplete, I called the Electrolux customer support number to get a more detailed response. I happened to get a rep who actually was familiar with the model. I was deluged with detailed info. I was only able fully understand what I was told by looking at the "cycles and options" chart on page 15 of the "Operating Manual" that I had downloaded. I'd recommended checking out the manual if you haven't already downloaded the pdf.

    The rep started by telling me that an "Energy Star cycle" was the "normal" and/or "whites" cycles using the default temperature setting of "warm" with the default option of "eco friendly" engaged. That should produce a wash temperature of "around 100°F." When you switch off the "eco friendly option," the warm temperature should be mixed a little higher, around 104°F. (This assumes that the water arriving at the hot inlet is at or above 104°F. )

    If you select the "hot" temperature option for these cycles without switching off the "eco friendly" option, it seems that the wash water does not get much hotter than the "warm" setting. (Dunno if that might also be true for your present LG WM4370, but maybe something to look into?)

    Anyway, when the "eco friendly" option is disengaged on the compact Electrolux, the rep said that the Automatic Temperature Control (ATC) is supposed to mix the intake water to produce 120°F wash water temperature --- provided your hot water line is delivering water to the washer at or above 120°F. (The rep gave the standard advice that "you might want to run the hot tap on a nearby laundry sink to be sure that some of the cooled standing water has been purged if your laundry is any distance from the water heater.")

    The Electrolux rep further explained that the washer's "steam" option is a recirculation pump that pairs with the on-board water heater to keep "hot" washes hotter for a longer time. When you choose the "heavy duty" cycle or the "normal with steam" cycles, and bump the temperature selection to "hot," and deselect the "eco friendly option" when using the "heavy duty" cycle (the "eco" is automatically deselected when you choose the "normal with steam" cycle), the washer should maintain a wash water temperature around 120° for most of the wash cycle before cooling down towards the end of the wash time. The subsequent rinses are with cold water.

    The rep was a little unsure of how the sanitize cycle worked except that the onboard water heater heats the wash water up to 152°F and that the cycle takes almost two hours to run. (From posts by owners in various places, it seems that the Sanitize cycle takes about 1 hr. and 52 min.)

    After ingesting that passle of info overload, I also stumbled into some discussions of the EFLS210 and its immediate predecessor model (EFLS20Q) here and at Automatic Washer.org. (AFAIK, the prior 20Q differs from the current 210 mainly in having a couple of fewer cycles.) For searching here and at AutomaticWasher, I found that a poster named Practigal seemed to have the most in-depth info. You might include that screenname in a search string when looking for discussion threads.

    schneemaid thanked jwvideo
  • Cal

    The W1 is awesome, I have mine programmed to read the exact temperatures (140F, 160F, etc) and it doesn't disappoint. I had slight water hammer issues with my previous washer (especially the hot water) and in anticipation of the W1 delivery I bought the water hammer arrestors that screw to the back of the washer, but the installers never used them and just connected the Miele directly to the water intake. Water intake is very quiet and it's another thing that I'm very happy with on this model.

  • blubird

    You need 2 of these easy to install water hammer arrestors. Probably took a whole 10 minutes to install.

    Water hammer arrestors

  • chocolatesnap

    The link blubird provided is to the same arrestors I used on my LG washer--solved the problem completely--hope they help :) I got mine from Amazon.

  • jwvideo

    OP said she had already installed arrestors but did not say what brand. Is Sioux Chief, the linked brand, supposed to be more effective than others with LG washers?

    schneemaid thanked jwvideo
  • chocolatesnap

    I honestly don't know if the Sioux Chief brand is better than others. It is the only brand I have used--at the recommendation of someone online. All I know is that I didn't know what water hammer was, until I bought my LG washer. I kept hearing the "bang" and seeing the shaking in my utility room pipes--but had no idea I could fix it. Then, a couple weeks later, one of the pipes broke, and flooded the utility room, and a nearby bedroom. At that point, I started searching for solutions. The arrestors have worked wonderfully well for me. I replaced them once, after a few years, when the water hammer began to increase.

    Sounds like the OP has other concerns with her LG though. I wish you all the best schneemaid in your quest--let us know what you choose :)

  • schneemaid

    Just thought I would post my non answer response from Electrolux customer service.

  • chocolatesnap

    schneemaid--Do you run the hot water faucet closest to your washing machine before starting a load? I always do this to bring the hottest water up through the pipes to the washer--before it starts to fill, That way my 130 degree water is what is actually running into the machine, not half filled with 75 degrees before the hot makes its way up from the basement. Not sure I'm explaining this well. And, maybe irrelevant if you have an on board heating element.

  • schneemaid

    My hot water heater is about 5 feet from the washer. The LG has an onboard heater, but I am getting 100 degree hot washes, sometimes cooler. I contacted Electrolux about wash temps and got the above response, which tells me the machine doesn’t engage the heater in most of the cycles.

    I will be stopping into my appliance store today to order a Miele W1 F060. I was trying to be thrifty with the LG, but I am missing my old Miele and its hot washes.

  • chocolatesnap

    That sounds like the right thing to do. Based on what everyone says about appliance longevity these days; I'm guessing I will be in the market soon. I hope you will post back a review of your new washer :)

    schneemaid thanked chocolatesnap

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