>>>" Yeah, top loaders don’t get moldy ... "<<<

Off topic, but am I guessing correctly that you haven't seen the contrary evidence (with photos) in the Laundry Room forum? Here is a link to an example.

Thanks jw, let me re-state: “top loaders don’t smell moldy, they don’t make my clothes smell moldy, and they don’t make my laundry room smell moldy.” Also when they work properly and are properly maintained, they don’t get moldy.

Hey Design, any news? Did you ever get to try the Viking?

Another advantage to the knobs may be that the microprocessor is less complicated than on cooktops with a digital control panel, so may be less expensive to repair.

They are exactly the same as those on a digital control panel but they add the knobs to make consumers happy.

I find that while cooking, I am constantly adjusting heat output depending on which phase of cooking I find myself in. I do this without even really thinking about it. It's really helpful if I can rely on tactile feedback instead of having to look at the controls. So, yes, knobs are a big deal for me.

Also, I like knobs on the front face of my range. It's easily accessible that way without having to reach over hot pots. So, given a choice, I much prefer ranges or range tops over cooktops.

But I understand that not everybody cooks the same way, and that's probably why cooktops have gotten more popular for induction.

The knobs debate is what has me stuck in limbo on gas vs induction. I loved being above to push and turn knobs on my last gas rangetop but admittedly, I’ve never cooked on induction. While easier to clean, I wonder if the novelty of one would wear off after a while and leave me longing for knobs. The only induction with the hob setup I like is the Bosch 36” Benchmark with Flex Induction or maybe the Wolf. Neither of those have knobs and the older I get, the more I appreciate simplicity and ease of use. Hence the reason I switched to Speed Queen a couple of years ago.

@eam44 - I have NOT used the Viking yet - showroom should be up and running soon, but not sure I will get there before the holidays. @shead - have you looked at the BlueStar Induction with knobs. It may offer a set up that would work for you. I have seen it in person and must say it's very impressive offering 5 hobs with one that bridges. It may be just what you're looking for. https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/BSP36INDCKT.html?msclkid=eedd0f95ac321f025e10527b3ef2b530&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=CPCS%20-%20%5B2%5D%20Cooking%20Appliances&utm_term=4581390075926898&utm_content=CPCS%20-%20%5B2%5D%20Cooktops

Thanks for the link! I hate that the knobs take up space of the 36" across as I often use several large skillets at the same time if I'm making a big batch of something. I wish someone would make a 36" induction rangetop with the knobs in front like the gas ranges do :) I'm going to try to look at the BS and Bosch in person very soon, though.

@shead - I understand - Keep in mind the size of the cut out as well. The 36 inch Benchmark has the smallest cutout at 34 7/8 x 20, The Blue Star's is 35 x 20 1/2. There is also a Frigidaire that has knobs (linked below) which has a cut out of 36 3/4 x 21 1/2 which is the largest. This also has knobs on the front. You could look at that as well. I'm not sure of the build quality of Frigidaire though. I'm looking at the Viking or the Blue Star. https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/FPIC3677RF.html

The knobs debate is what has me stuck in limbo on gas vs induction. I loved being above to push and turn knobs on my last gas rangetop but admittedly, I’ve never cooked on induction. While easier to clean, I wonder if the novelty of one would wear off after a while and leave me longing for knobs. The only induction with the hob setup I like is the Bosch 36” Benchmark with Flex Induction or maybe the Wolf. Neither of those have knobs and the older I get, the more I appreciate simplicity and ease of use. Hence the reason I switched to Speed Queen a couple of years ago.

I have the Bosch 800, love it and will NEVER switch back to gas. The reality is induction is more precise than gas and never having to deal with those grates and cleanup again is HUGE.

It is so easy to use and I don't miss knobs at all. When I want to change the setting, I push the button.

@cpartist, does your 800 series have any sort of bridging like the Benchmark series does? DH is drawn to induction because you can cover the cooking area with newspaper or paper towels....lol.

Design Girl, I have that model in my home and it has proven to be quirt reliable. I use it daily and it has been a true work horse. Knobs were my thing to and this was the only design that appealed to me. My only disappointment is that stainless steel strip in the front is easily scratched. The actual top is spotless as I take meticulous care of it. There are 18 settings from simmer to boost. Even the smallest hob is packing some pretty serious power 2000 watts at boost. My son who thinks everything needs to be boosted had burned a few dishes during his learning curve. That said the build quality is decent, I would probably give it 3.5 out 5 stars. and this is only because of the stainless steel strip. Performance wise 5 all the way.

shead - I too am going with induction because of the ease of cleaning, in addition to the ability to control the temperature as well as, if not better, than gas. I think the paper towel thing is genius. Who wants to spend their time cleaning grates and wiping up grease - there are so many other things to do with ones time. @kevinande - Glad to know it has worked out for you. I live in an area where high end finishes are pretty much the norm, hence my leaning towards the Viking and the Blue Star, Subzero, etc. I'm at least happy to have a few choices with knobs.

@cpartist, does your 800 series have any sort of bridging like the Benchmark series does? DH is drawn to induction because you can cover the cooking area with newspaper or paper towels....lol.

No I didn't feel the need for the bridging element for the amount of cooking I do. Most times, it's just the two of us.

And yes, I've covered the area with paper towels, but in reality it's not really necessary. A spritz of Windex and some paper towels and it cleans up beautifully.

Design Girl

(Not sure if I'm doing this right--I copied your user name and pasted it here)...

I saw a previous post of yours with photos or links to one or both of your preferred induction cooktops. A couple of considerations: First, and this may be my own limitation, if the knob layout doesn't visually correspond with the burner layout, I have to look at the little diagram to verify which knob goes with the burner I want to use. I believe both of the inductions you mentioned, the knobs are aligned along the side of the cooktop, so it is not intuitive to know which knob goes with which burner. Second, are the knobs between the prep area and the cooktop or where you might need to lift a pot over them, and risk hitting them?

Finally I was at the Merchandise Mart in Chicago over Thanksgiving and demo'd the Thermador Freedom and the Monogram induction cooktops. While the Thermador had some very nice features, including the ability to use any part of the surface with no designated "burners," I think I am going with the Monogram. I may have mentioned this before, but the Monogram, although it doesn't have physical knobs, does have round, touch-surface controls that pretty much look like knobs, and which are controllable by sliding your finger around the circle like a knob, or by simply touching the circle at the power level you want. The controls are very sensitive to touch so they are very easy and quick to control (although I did not try them with wet or greasy fingers). Finally, they are laid out in a similar layout to the burners, so it is quick and easy to see which control relates to which burner. The Monogram is $2000 less expensive than the Thermador and I believe it has more power--it takes a 50 amp circuit breaker vs. 30 amps for the Thermador. Those are some of my considerations and opinions, for what they are worth.

@Greg Rubinstein - Thanks for your comments. I have seen both the Thermador and the Monogram. The Thermador was a nice color, but I found the controls finicky to say the least. First selecting the pot, then scrolling up to the desired setting and most of the time passing it to have to then scroll back the other way. Not for me. The Monogram, while it did have an easier control did not have the aesthetics I was looking for. To me, it looked cheap and more modern than I want. I do know that the knobs on the side will work for me. You get pretty used to which knob controls which burner. I've had that on my Monogram radiant for the last 20 years. Thanks for your input. My top choices are still the Viking and the Blue Star. A more classic/timeless look, while still providing ease of use.

Thank you for this post! Exactly the commentary I was looking for. I have the exact same requirements.

for reference. I have a Wolf electric cooktop today. Sounds lovely, except I’m always accidentally turning off burners without realizing it if I have more than one pot going. I can’t stand the thing - came with the condo I bought. knobs all the way!

I hope Reno plans continue in this crazy world we’re living in these days! Stay safe :)

@Emma Stone - My reno is not progressing as I had thought. I'm looking at the Blue Star induction that has knobs. Viking is nice as well, but not sure about the 6 burner configuration, and the reviews. Blue Star is looking like the best option. It's also much less expensive than the Viking and still has a great reputation. https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/BSP36INDCKT.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=BSP36INDCKT&gclid=CjwKCAjwg6b0BRBMEiwANd1_SOgUqTdrRDYbJJQec0Rvmz2yl63EEms-QUhrDhQVpu5pJvoRQyDfBxoCxcQQAvD_BwE

@eam44 - Hi again - It's been a while. Well, our variance was denied by the town so we had to go back to the architect and will be meeting with her to look at initial drawing next week. Have you made any decisions yet on your cooktop, etc. I was finally going to try out the Viking induction, but then Covid hit. Haven't gone out of the house too much. I'm thinking now that in the next month or so, I may have to make some decisions. I'm wondering if you have made any or have come across something else to see. I don't know if my choice of cooktop should be the brand I select for ovens? Thoughts>

@Design Girl, I just wrote a long post that disappeared when I hit submit. Bottom line:

• Hi, I forgot you were you!
• I’m looking at Thermador Freedom Induction but haven’t bought a cooktop yet. Probably because this one has no knobs.
• Appliances needn’t match. Mine won’t. For ovens think BlueStar, Miele, Bosch, GE Cafe. Combi-steam ovens are very in, but I will probably skip this, and the French door business.
• Hey, if you get a chance can you check out my layout thread and see if you can see anything I’ve missed? Thanks!

@eam44 - Thanks - I just went to your link and will need to spend some time looking over your "puzzle". It seems you have already gotten some good advice but is always nice to have fresh eyes. Thanks for the appliance recommendations. I was finally going to go in to look at the Viking and test it out when the state was shut down. We're open now, but I still don't feel like venturing out too much. My gut right now is leaning towards the Blue Star. I have seen and operated the Thermador Freedom. It was very pretty with the dark gray glass but I found it a pain to operate. First you put your pan wherever, then press a button to turn on the unit. Then you need to scroll up and down (like your phone) to the setting you want. So I start scrolling to set it on 7 and go past 7 to 9 - Ok, so I start scrolling the other way and I end up at 6. By the time I got the thing where I wanted it I could have had dinner on the table. haha. Add that to the fact that people have said that if your fingers are wet, it can be a problem and I know I need the knobs. I love the looks of the Viking, but I am worried about the reliability and the burner configuration in that with 6 burners, overlapping pans will be difficult to manage, and the burners are only 9 inches. I have a diagram that a salesman got for me that I'll try to find. (It's posting above)So, I'm thinking of going with the Blue Star. I wish it wasn't black, but it is a very nice sturdy looking unit and BS in general has good reviews. I'll do a Subzero and a Bosch dishwasher and then get the BS double ovens. I'm only a bit unsure because most in my area have Wolf or Thermador (but then again that's mostly the gas ranges). I posted my current kitchen layout on your post but will post here as well. Please feel free to offer suggestions for layout changes you think I might benefit from. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5945612/kitchen-renovation-should-i-change-the-layout

@Design Girl I hate the wet hands thing, and the controls looked clunky even on the Thermador video, so thanks for confirming! The one thing I liked was the layout of the, I don’t know, induction coils?

Especially when compared to the Viking or the BS (above).

@eam44 - I know - If that Thermador had knobs somewhere I'd be all over it, and then I'd get the Thermador double ovens. Why can't we just get what we want. So frustrating.

Hi @Design Girl - have you read anything about (or seen irl) the Bertazzoni Professional series?

I don’t love that there are only five cooking zones, but the knobs are pretty cute.

@eam44 - I have seen the Bert in person. The knobs were a little funky for me but there may be a way to change them. I believe the salesman said you could change them on the range. I can't remember if you could on the cooktop. I actually like the 5 cooking zones as I feel that the large center one would be good for a larger skillet or dutch oven. One of the things that I didn't like was I was told it was not easy to get service. For me personally, I think I'd get the Blue Star (5 burners as well) over the Bert. I like the knobs and looks better, and I like the bridge element (although I don't know how often I'd use it). I still haven't heard back about the Wolf ovens and doubt I will. That person has lost my business. I guess I'll have to try someone else.

That’s a bummer. If they’d called you back and told you it’s still a problem at least I’d respect the honesty.

Berta are beautiful, but that’s no reason to buy one. It has to work well. I have no idea who services them - I’m not even sure who services BlueStar here.

I want an extraordinary kitchen, but I’m getting a little tired of thinking about it, doing Google searches, looking at images, comparing specifications, blah, blah, blah.

@eam44 - Right back at you - What am I doing on a Saturday night - looking at specs to see which countertop microwave will fit in my pantry cabinet that will only be 16 inches deep on the top. Fun times.

@eam44 Ridiculous really - I mean for something that costs $200 bucks. I'm just tired of looking at the other stuff for now.

Does anyone have the Viking 48" VRT5486GSS gas range with griddle? Is the griddle useful or more of a hassle? Thank you

Hi Georgina, I have an old 48" Viking gas range (1999) with a griddle and a grill. I love the griddle, hate the grill. The griddle is a bit of a hassle to clean but I've got it dialed in and don't mind doing it. I probably use it at least once a week, and it's great for heating/browning tortillas as well as doing burgers and grilled sandwiches. I've looked at newer ranges and the griddle design is even better and easier to clean--no crevices to collect grease and crud, and completely removable for easy washing. So I recommend the griddle, but not the grill. When the day comes to replace the stove (probably not too far off), I really want to go with induction. It's MUCH easier to keep clean! But I would definitely get one with a griddle.

Thank you! This is very helpful!

@Georgina Beaumont1! FYI, Ina Garten’s barn kitchen has a huge Viking gas range with a pretty extensive griddle and a small grill. Look at all the cake stands!

@Design Girl, how goes the search? I hope all is well.

@eam44 - Meeting with the architect Friday. I haven't made any headway.

@Design Girl, That’s OK. I haven’t really made any progress either. I just wanted to say hi. Good luck on Friday!

@eam44 Gorg! After doing lots of research here, decided not to go with the Viking. Our appliance guy is getting us a good deal on a bundle of appliances - still working it all out. Will share once we are 100%.

Cake stands - don't have them. Probably best that I dont, LOL.

Thanks @Georgina Beaumont1!, keep us posted. BTW I own one cake stand, and I keep it at my sister’s house... Safer that way.

Hey @Design Girl, how goes the search for the sink?

@eam44 - Spinning my wheels, as usual.

Oh, I know that spin well @Design Girl. I’ve finally chosen the layout, but some of my cabinets will have color and I’m now focused on which ones, and which color. I guess we get there when we get there...

what did you end up going with? I am trying to decide now which one to buy. Thanks fir any feedback you may have

Haven’t had to choose yet. Strongly leaning towards the Blue Star.

We ordered the Blue Star induction cooktop two weeks ago. It should arrive very soon. We have had two Capital ranges and one Blue Star range in our previous homes. We choose to go with induction this time as we are living at 7k feet, and the way our current kitchen is configured only allows for a cooktop. The Blue Star induction was also one of the only options that would work without cutting the granite. I will post a review once we have the cooktop installed.

@vtshack - Thanks and please let us all know how you like the BS when you begin using it.

@vtshack - How's the BS induction - We'd love to have some feedback.

@eam44 - I bet your kitchen is done. We just got the permit _ YEAH - now I have to order appliances. I'm still struggling.

https://www.houzz.com/user/ssutton1958 Did you end up with the viking induction cooktop? if so how do you like it? I am about to order and that is also my only fear that I can't use my large stock pots on it. Wondering how that worked out for you if you did get it. Thanks!

@Karen Lee - This will be a long post. I have not ordered my cooktop yet. The contractor has not started (hopefully in a few weeks when he can get the subs to pour the foundation). I have ordered my fridge and wall ovens but have been struggling with the cooktop. I want a cooktop with knob controls not only for ease of use, but also for looks. The Viking is very pretty. I just saw it again in the showroom yesterday. I also saw the Bluestar which has only 5 burners so one is a large one which I prefer. However, my cooktop will be in the center of a 16 foot run in my kitchen, so I'll have to seam my stone ( most likely around the cooktop as that is where it would be least visible). I now think I am going to get a 36 inch induction RANGE TOP, so I don't have to seam the stone. Only one company makes one and that is an Italian company called Fulgor Milano. I am going to call the rep tomorrow and really dig deep and ask a lot of questions. They are relatively new to the US market, but have been in business for 70 years. I also know that they make the induction components for Miele, Bosch and some others. The cooktop looks great with one large center burner and has a real professional look. Just what I was going for but didn't want to get a big range because I'm not that young, and didn't want to bend down to get something heavy out of the oven. I did do a lot of research and will post a picture of the internal specs of the Viking, as well as a picture of the Fulgor Milano that I think I'll be getting. Good luck and keep us posted.

https://www.houzz.com/user/ssutton1958 Sounds just like my project I am going on three years down to the studs and subfloor..... Very good points and so insightful of you to think of all of that. Those little details I have not even been able to consider yet I was so stuck on the tetris problem from hell in my layout. I love the Viking and the knobs but worry about using a large stock pot. Did you find out if that would even work on the Viking? I am going to take my large pot into the store with me lol. I also want the package deals going all viking but I saw a lower price model with knobs and one large circle for a burner. Did you see that one? It was about half the price too. Thanks for the detailed response it is so helpful!!

@Karen Lee - It's a blessing and a curse. I think of all these things because I usually do a deep dive, and I am a decorator. I notice a lot of little things that probably wouldn't bother anyone but me. I know that Viking had an older model that had black glass and I think that one did have a larger burner. I believe it's been discontinued, but there could be some hanging around. I have not seen that in person in any of the stores I have visited, and I live an hour outside of NYC. The Bluestar also looked nice and did have a large burner. I don't know if that is something you would consider. It also has a bridge function. Retails around $3500. Bluestar has a large following when it comes to their ranges and is made in the USA. I did see this in person and it looked very nice and well made. Could be worth a look if you can find one. The problem I am having with the Viking is the same as you are having. Because of the configuration, the large pot is going to hang over the other burners and also in the front or back. I also had read/heard about some problems with Viking in general (mostly coming from the refrigerators) but I think those are being worked out. It was so bad a few years ago, several of my local stores took them off the floor and stopped selling Viking. They are since back, so hopefully those problems have been fixed. I decided I'm going with Subzero/Wolf for my refrigerator and wall ovens. I also like Wolf's induction, but really wanted the knobs, so I'm leaving $1000 on the table because of that. If I had to get an induction cooktop without the knobs, I would go with the Wolf. It was the easiest to use of all the others I tried. Honestly, this choice is driving me crazy.

https://www.houzz.com/user/ssutton1958 Yes Blue Star has a great reputation. I didn't see their induction but will check it out! I have been torn about the Viking fridge because of all those problems. I am getting the french door oven and they will be right next to each other so I need the handles to match or have to do a panel ready but I am going to take a chance on the fridge, buy the extended warranty and hope they got everything corrected!