Heat Pump Help - Ducted v Air-Water Radiant &Carrier vs Bryant v Trane

5 years ago

Hello,

I'm building a new home and trying to select which type of heating system I'm going to install, I don't like the look of mini splits either on the walls or cassettes in the ceiling. So I'm leaning towards a ducted system or air-water in floor radiation heating.

I'm located in Canada so a cold climate, seems as though asking around there's people with issues with just about any kind of heat pump.

I'm leaning towards either of these brands and wondering if anyone can recommend a specific model that has worked well for them. I'm not sure if there's a system that would allow me to only have a 200 amp service in my home. Seems like that may be wishful thinking but I will have to spend the money to install 400 amp service.

Open Looped ground water heating pumps are not permitted in the town ( there's no town water supply artesian wells are the norm)

Thanks for any feedback.

Featured Answer

fsq4cw

5 years ago

If you wanted to install an Air-Source HP with forced air, I’d recommend the Carrier Greenspeed, properly sized.

You could also install an Air-To-Water HP for in-floor hydronic heating that can also supply air-conditioning hydronically as well.

Any system you install, air-source forced air, air-source hydronic or any type of geothermal should only require a 200amp entrance.

There is no good reason to disallow open-loop geothermal on ecological grounds as long as the ‘leaving’ water is returned in a responsible manner to the same aquifer it was drawn from. However, there might be other reasons for you to not choose this method.

Your greatest efficiency, comfort and ease of zoning will come from a properly designed all-hydronic system whether it’s Air-To-Water or Water-To-Water Geothermal.

I’m glad that you mentioned that you’re in Canada.

For further information explore these links of a Canadian product made for our climate, Heating, Air-Conditioning & Domestic Hot Water:

Nordic Installation Manual & Full Documentation

Nordic - Basic Information

IMPO

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Comments (10)

Paul Griffin
Original Author
5 years ago
@fsq4cw It looks like Infinity® 20 Heat Pump With Greenspeed® Intelligence is the only Carrier model with greenspeed intelligence from the distributor in my town. There's only one listed on the carrier website. Do you think this model would be sufficent?
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redbird2010
5 years ago
I just ordered a arctic air to water for our new build with in-floor hydronic and 2 air handlers for ac in the summer. I went with the arctic heat pump. I have a propane back up for the few days that are below the design temp. I would love to give a review but I'm still in rough-in stage.

The guys @ arctic were extremely helpful especially since i am installing the system myself.
Paul Griffin thanked redbird2010
fsq4cw
5 years ago
Looking forward to your reviews.

Where are you located?

SR
Paul Griffin thanked fsq4cw
David Cary
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
I can't imagine no matter what you do, that you can't get by with 200 amps. But it doesn't limit future things like solar and EVs.

The more important thing is to invest in your envelope first. A good envelope doesn't need much to heat the house.

The Greenspeed has been considered the best cold climate air source heat pump for many years. I assume that is still the case.

"Do you think this model would be sufficient?" - Absolutely no way to know that. Sufficient is a sizing question and that is based on envelope design, climate, house size, etc.

Canada is helpful but Vancouver is not Winnipeg. Obviously we assume Toronto/Montreal area which is cold but not Minneapolis cold. Canada is bigger than the US of course (and we mostly discount Alaska so it really is a lot bigger).
Paul Griffin thanked David Cary
wdccruise
5 years ago
Carrier Corporation sells the same products under its many duplicate brands. That "Carrier 25VNA4 Infinity 24 Heat Pump With Greenspeed Intelligence" is also sold as the "Bryant 284ANV EVOLUTION EXTREME 24 VARIABLE-SPEED HEAT PUMP".
Paul Griffin thanked wdccruise
Paul Griffin
Original Author
5 years ago
@David Cary Thanks for the good points, I'm in Newfoundland so more of a marine coastal climate. I didnt really know what the 'envelope' entained. I know even the interior of the province has a much different climate than myself on the coast.
Paul Griffin
Original Author
5 years ago
@David Cary @fsq4cw @wdccruise

I have two quotes from the Carrier dealer in my area. They are as follows

Performance Series Model 25HPB6 3.5 ton $14,850 (CAD) + Tax

Infinity 24 Series Model VN4A 4 Ton $22,500 (CAD) +Tax

Both include all ductwork, piping, thermostats, wiring, registers, snow stand, start up, commissioning, air balancing, high efficiency air cleaner,

Curious your thoughts on these, is the greenspeed model worth the extra costs?
mtvhike
5 years ago
Redbird, who manufactures the arctic brand of air-water heat pump? When I searched a few years ago, I could only find Nordic. My current hydronic radiant system is heated electrically (resistance) so this would reduce my power cost.
fsq4cw
5 years ago
I would be hard pressed to invest +$22k into any air-to-air HP system. If you’re looking to install a forced air distribution system, particularly in a Canadian winter climate and you plan to live in your home for more than 15-years, based on professional and personal experience designing, installing and on personal geothermal ownership I would install a Closed Loop Liquid-To-Air Geothermal Heat Pump such as a Waterfurnace.

Given the cost of servicing and replacement of an air-sourced system - half of which is constantly exposed to the elements, will have a life cycle that might be half that of a geothermal system - at best.

When factoring in all costs, including life-cycle replacement, you will likely break even sooner than you think.

You should be able to install a closed-loop system in your area.

Waterfurnace Series - 5

IMPO

SR