I am doing a cost plus contract, so I pay for everything, but your builder has a point. Who did the plans? Architect, drafter, internet plan? Wouldn't that person or company be responsible for providing inaccurate drawings?

I found several errors in our plans, but we had a more complicated design path with architect in our old state and drafter/engineer in new state and some things were lost in translation. My builder was not part of the design process, other than being introduced to the architect on a phone call, so he really wasn't exposed to the whole design creation process and wouldn't have easily noted things that were missing. I was the one who combed through the details and found stuff that was missing or in the wrong place due to the drafter. I will say that most of our subs have been great at looking at all parts of the plans and making sure that things seemed to match up ... but I still pay for any discrepancies they find!

So...is it on the plans?

Our architect put together a whole bid package with everything included. The builder got his electrical contractor to bid the job for our (mostly) fixed price contract, but when we did the walkthrough he practically passed out when he saw the electrical plan, as if for the first time "I thought this was your standard 3k sq ft house and thats what I bid."

They worked it out between them.

It is on the plans, on the first page of floor plans actually and the GC and I discussed this item specifically. It is just not on the specific sheet of electrical plans. My guess is the GC sent the sub the set of plans and he just went straight to the electrical, which I don't fault him for. The GC knew about this item as it was on the plans he reviewed and bid out, but he did not note it was not on the electrical plans and did not verify his electrical sub was including that in his bid for electrical.

His mistake. But as many on this forum will note, do you want your house finished by a guy who is salty cause you rubbed his nose in his boo-boo? Probably not.

I am not a lawyer, but a lawyer might agree "if its on the plans its in the bid" would be binding. Insert shrug emoji here.

Thank you. It helps to hear other people's experiences. I think a little of this frustration is us not realizing how little attention to detail he was going to pay on subcontractor's work and bid and then bill his 19% mark-up even when mistakes are made (and on the changes) and he says we should have caught them. There was a window issue previously where the window sub changed a window from an awning to a glider without pointing out the change to us (we assume because the window would have had to be broken into two awnings due to its width, but we could have just reduced its size had we known it was an issue) but the darn window is too tall for me to open as a glider. GC said since I reviewed and approved the order, I would have to pay to have it changed and for the new window (and the old one of course). I think I'm still bitter over that AND the 50K in change orders already half-way through our "fixed price Contract" build, so when this small issue comes up, I just don't understand why he would even ask us to cover it unless he really believes it's not his responsibility. I am building my forever home, but if I ever did this again, I would ask so many more questions, and unabashedly negotiate more. But yes, we will just let this go to get our house done, it's not worth arguing more. I just was hoping someone would tell me he was right so I can feel better about it.

50k at the halfway point might be worth the price of a consultation with a lawyer.

A quick rule of thumb for responsibility for mistakes is fault moves from the person who made the mistake to the person who was in the best position to catch the mistake.

In this case, the fault is going to start with the person who drew the electrical plans and be tough to move to anyone else. You would have an easier time contesting the window change.

Hi, Lora,

I'm sorry for you experience. I'm not an attorney, so please don't confuse my take with legal advice.

My view is that the home builder's task is to construct the home substantially as per the plans and specifications unless stated otherwise in the contract. If there's a tub on the plans, it needs to be furnished and installed. If the plans show it's a whirlpool tub, then wiring needs to be installed and an access to the pump and motor need to be provided. That would be true even if the only specification is "whirlpool" or "jetted" tub.

Change orders and allowances are often contentious parts of a custom build. For projects which are competitively bid, it's all too typical for the builder to turn errors and omissions in the plans and client requests for changes into dollars to make up for the margin they cut to "win" the competitive bid. However, change orders shouldn't result from the builder's failure to read and understand what's on the plans nor to account for something they "forgot" to include.

Change orders should always be presented to the owner for approval before implementation. The cost of the change should be approved in advance, too.

Who provided the plans to the electrical contractor? That person has an obligation to make sure everything is included.

Lora P:

I am concerned about your "he has plenty of profit from the job to do this", "we are paying him a lot of money in profit alone", and "his profit is more than whole houses cost some places" attitude. His profits are none of your business. His profits are money that he is owed by you to compensate him for his risk and opportunity costs. Profits aren't some magic-money-drawer used to compensate for mistakes.

19% is not his "profit". That includes his overhead normally, his cost of doing business (all insurance's, etc, etc.)

Why was it your job to find the mistakes with the electrician and the window guy? Isn't that why you hire a GC? Otherwise you might as well do it all yourself. As someone else mentioned it might be time to talk with a construction lawyer to see what he/she has to say and to maybe put your builder on notice.

Maybe I am misreading this, but by my reading the home designer provided an electrical plan. Although the tub was shown on other plans, the wiring for the tub was not shown on the electrical plans. That is a clear E&O (errors and omissions) by the designer. While maybe the builder should have caught it, or maybe the electrician should have asked, if the error didn't exist in the first place they wouldn't have had to look for it.

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As for the window issue. If the windows were in the original fixed price bid, then ask to see the change order where you approved the change. If your builder then notes that you double checked the windows before he ordered, pull out the contract and ask him to point to the double check exception to the change order policy in the contract. That will not work if the windows were an allowance item, but it is an easy way to win a fight on the windows if it was in the original fixed price bid.

Note: I wouldn't really do this unless your house is close to finished.

Millworkman, true, 19% is not all profit. That includes general conditions. But when I referred to profit being more then whole houses cost in many places, I was referring solely to the "profit" line of our contract.

Joseph Corlett, the GC provided the electrical plans to the electrical sub, but our architect gave it to the GC. And I disagree that the customer has no business knowing how much the GC is making. My point was that he has hundreds of thousands in profit alone (not including general conditions), so $500 seems really petty to argue over if it is at all vague whose responsibility the extra charge is. It just seems symbolic of passing the buck. But maybe I'm not seeing all the goes on that he's not telling me. He's not the most vocal of people. He seems to be building a good house, it just takes a lot more involvement from myself than I thought for the amount of money we are paying the GC.

Bry911, in regards to the windows, we did not understand the real benefit of the "fixed price Contract," when we were signing it. We changed a few windows (color and upgraded one door) before we signed the contract and were asking for an updated line item on the contract. He said he had not received one so he just changed it to an allowance. We should not have let him do that because installation went up dramatically and as it was an allowance we had to pay it. It seems like we were just too naive when signing our contract.

A fixed price contract does not contain any lines indicating profit. None of the basic raw costs are shared with you, unless you go over on an allowance. You get a bottom number, totaled from a few rough categories, and that's it.

Sounds like you are confusing a cost plus contract with a fixed price.

Ours was a fixed price contract with estimates for dirt work and foundation. It had line items for both profit and overhead.

Sounds like you're at the roughin stage with no drywall yet. I'd do the runs for a 220 and a 110 circuit myself. Not a complicated job. Plenty of how-to info on YT, etc.

A homeowner can't do their own electrical work on someone else's permit. They'd need to pull their own electrical permit and have the work inspected.

I suspect there is language in the builder's contract which prevents the homeowner from performing any DIY work on the site other than clean up. Mixing contractor and homeowner work on the same project is usually a recipe for problems. Imagine the impact of a delay due to a homeowner's work failing inspection.

Thank you all. It is not actually a hot tub connection that we are disagreeing on, but something similarly small. I just had the fear (silly?) that my contractor would see my question and be able to identify us.

It is a fixed price Contract with line items for general conditions and profit. A few items are allowances. But so far the only part that has actually been fixed about it is the GC's carpentry, which with the price of wood going up, I do have to appreciate that he did not come to us for more money.

With everyone's input, it helps me to see that this is not as cut and dry as I was thinking so I should just let it go and continue working on getting our house built with him. We live in a small town and have connections outside of this so for more reasons than just the house, it would be good to not hate each other by the end of this process.

I was rereading your responses and I think I was misunderstanding many of you when asking who "provided" the electrical plans. The architect we hired created them and sent them to myself and the GC and then the GC sent them to the subs for bids. This was all during the pandemic so my guess is he sent the entire set electronically to each sub. I figured he would also go over the plans with them to ensure they fully understood what we wanted, but it sounds like this is not typical. So good, we don't need to be angry any more and we'll just move on. Thank you!

Lora P:

My point is that profit is every bit the cost of building as are the electricity to power the tools on site and wire for the electrician. Your wanting to dip into his profits are like asking the workers to bring their own generator to the job.

Former trades myself (many years ago). Most fixed price contracts have some wiggle room built in - so you can absorb 50 bucks without looking like an a(family blog). Maybe hes at the end of the wiggle room. Or maybe he goes to the mattresses over every dollar. Hard to say.

There's already problems and delay because of this dispute. Get over it by taking care of the siyuation yourself.

An "estimate" or "allowance" in a Fixed Price contract, is, effectively, a small Cost of the Work subcontract within the Fixed Price contract and will therefore generate a Change Order that includes a Fee which is often a percentage of the final Cost and will often be equal to the GC's Overhead & Profit Markup.

My approach in these situations is to determine if the Fixed Price would have been higher if the information had been on the drawing in question, ie the owner shouldn't get something of value for free. If it's unclear, I usually recommend splitting the cost to maintain the peace and hopefully the GC might forgo the markup. This is a small item on what appears to be a $2 million project.

Why is the owner getting so involved in such a small matter? Where is the architect?

We had a fixed-price contract for our custom build with some allowances. These are *nasty* if you do not have expert knowledge about the item. For us, going over triggered a change-order + 15%. I've heard of some builders charging +50% for change orders.

I have a similiar problem. Where are you building? Afrer pouring the foundation for my home, my builder stopped working on my home and requested 95K for increased lumber supplies. And, I have a fixed price contract.

sjdarno:

Your builder calculated the additional cost of the lumber and the cost of your lawsuit. Apparently settling with you is the less expensive alternative.

A change order with a 15% mark up is quite reasonable.

SJDarno, Oh no! We are in the California Northbay. I cannot even imagine. Lumber prices increased in the beginning of the year but are decreasing I thought? My contractor did just tell me (after our disagreement) that he spent way more on lumber than he budgeted, he is not sure how much at this point. Are you going to pay it or try to find someone else?

This is all a very frustrating process. We were very clear about our budget from the beginning with both the architect and the GC (both on board since the beginning) but no one seems to be able to estimate costs until you have a complete approved design and then they bid it and then it is above your budget. But, then we were are told, this is all we will need because it is a "fixed price contract." That obviously is not true, in any case, unless someone builds exactly to the plans, the plans are 100% correct, and the inspectors never make you change anything. Thankfully, we can afford some overage, but what if we couldn't? It seems like if we ever downgrade anything, we don't get the same value out of it as if it had been added-on. I don't know if this is just a problem with the process itself and you have to go through it once in order to know what to look out for in the beginning to have the original design as accurate as possible? It's not like plumbers and electricians are involved in the design process, so when the architect and GC under design something like what was missed on our plans, we are left paying the extra unexpected costs (which is actually turning out to be even more in recent days). I guess one should always have at least 10% of your build set aside for things like this?

But in your case, this is outside the normal things that generally need to be added (in my limited experience). It seems like the GC should sit down with you and explain his dilemma and try to work out a solution with you that feels fair to you both? In our case, no one has raised the price of anything in the fixed price portion of our contract due to increased supply costs, so I guess I should be more appreciative of that and not just take it for granted as part of the benefit of our fixed-price contract.