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jason_carlton26

Super large wall plate

This isn't "exactly" about electrical wiring, so I hope you all will forgive me for this one :-O


Working on the MIL's house, I've discovered that the contractors installed the junction box for one switch before putting up the drywall. Then they put the drywall on top of it, cut a hole that's a little over 1" lower than the box, then mudded and painted.


Why did they do it that way? I haven't a clue.


But now it's physically impossible to get the switch in the hole without cutting the drywall an inch or so higher. Which, of course, will leave a gap at the bottom.



Short of patching the drywall and repainting (which, let's be honest, I'm never gonna have the time to do), can you recommend a long enough wall plate to cover this gap? The Eaton Jumbo from Lowes is nowhere near big enough.

Comments (19)

  • 4 years ago

    The switch is required to be mounted in the box. Your choices are: cut the drywall to allow it to be properly mounted, or move the box to align with the hole you have. Regardless of the fact that you say you don't have enough time to do a simple patch, moving the box is a bigger task. I have never seen an oversize switch plate that is big enough to completely cover the hole you will have if you cut out the sheetrock to properly mount the switch. Unless you are prepared to move the box, which could end up causing more damage to the sheetrock if you haven't done this before, it seems your choices are to patch, or to live with a hole in the sheetrock.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I would shut off the power, disconnect the switch, push the wires out of the box and knock/ pry out the old box. (and leave it abandoned in the wall cavity,)



    Replace with one of these 'old work' boxes. Those wings tighten up against the back side of the drywall (using the existing drywall cut-out hole.)

  • 4 years ago

    Regardless of the fact that you say you don't have enough time to do a simple patch, moving the box is a bigger task.


    @kudzu9, short story long... she's been displaced since late August, couch surfing with the family after the contractors took all of her money and abandoned the job. We've all been doing what we can to get her back in the house, but we all have our own jobs so it's been slow going.


    Other family members kinda jumped the gun, though, and painted the living room and installed the floor before the walls were really finished. They used all of the paint that I had bought for the room, too.


    So now, a "simple patch" really means buying more paint and primer, then repainting the entire 8' x 40' wall that extends through the hallway before getting to a corner. I'll also end up fixing the parts of the wall that weren't finished properly, either, so it turns in to at least a few weeks of work. And the rest of the family is just going to be offended that I went back over what they did, because I'm a perfectionist and come off as a know-it-all.



    I would shut off the power, disconnect the switch, push the wires out of the box and knock/ pry out the old box. (and leave it abandoned in the wall cavity,)


    @ci_lantro, I'm not sure if you can tell from the picture, but these are metal boxes. I'm taking a wild guess that they're nailed in to the 2x4 from above. Can you suggest how I might be able to knock them out without damaging the drywall? My only thought is to use a Dremel and grind it out.

  • 4 years ago

    "then repainting the entire 8' x 40' wall that extends through the hallway before getting to a corner."

    This is nonsense.

  • 4 years ago

    Jason- Coming up with a lot of reasons to not do what needs to be done is not going to fix this.

  • 4 years ago

    Pry bar? Oscillating multi-tool?

    Jason, zone 7A, near Greensboro NC thanked ci_lantro
  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Patching is not that difficult, matching the paint might be more difficult but not impossible. I can't tell from your picture, but do you have to remove some drywall from the top of the hole to make room for the switch? If so, carefully cut a piece away and take it to the hardware store for paint matching. You will probably need a box extender like one of these:



  • 4 years ago

    How about buying a piece of white acrylic (needlessly large example) and making your own switch plate to cover the opening in the wall? You will attach the switch to the junction box, right?

  • 4 years ago

    @Stax and @kudzu9, would you care to explain what you think the easier option is? I have limited experience with painting, but from my experience if you get a new gallon of paint then it will never quite match the old one.


    @mtvhike, the top of it is kinda chipped away, so I suspect either my MIL or one of the other family members did that in an attempt to make it fit. I have the old paint bucket, though, so if I do have it matched then they should be able to do it from that.


    Thanks for the tip about the box extender! I didn't even know that existed! LOL I definitely think I'll need one of those for every receptacle and switch, though, because they're ALL behind the drywall.

  • 4 years ago

    4 ways that I can think of to fix this.

  • 4 years ago

    Or:



  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Really big 7.5" tall cover:

    https://www.kyleswitchplates.com/largest-7-5-oversized-1-toggle-light-switch-wall-plate-covers/


    Standard covers are 4.5" high; jumbos are 5.5" high vs this 7.5" supersized cover^


  • 4 years ago

    ci_lanteo-

    What a find! I can't imagine using something like that, but it resolves the OP's problem of not wanting to expend effort on a proper fix. ;-)

  • 4 years ago

    @ci_lantro, thanks so much for the ideas! Kyles also has one that's 6.38", and I think it will work, too:


    https://www.kyleswitchplates.com/extra-large-jumbo-decora-rocker-switch-plates-6-38-tall/


    I'm going to measure it later today to be sure.


    I don't love it, either, @kudzu9, but that's a much cheaper and easier fix for about $25 shipped :-O Worst case scenario, it's a temporary fix and I end up doing a better permanent fix in the future.

  • 4 years ago

    Your plans and concerns are all a bit overwrought. The oversize and decorative plates and such are just silly. This is simply wall finishing 101 and is quite common, and anyone who can butter toast should be able to accomplish this.

    It appears the hole is pretty tight around 3 of the perimeter sides of the electrical box (it needs to have no more than 1/8" gap per NEC). The top, from the fuzzy pic, looks like at least the receptacle screw can make it into the electrical box. That is all that matters there.

    On the bottom gap, go buy a small container of $8 premixed joint compound (not spackle!) and an $8 6" taping knife. You can use these in other areas of the house too. Fill the bottom 1" gap with the mud, you will hardly get any on the adjacent wall outside the hole. You will need say 2 coats of fill and a final skim coat that if you do it well, could require very little sanding. Don't just try to gob it in flush at one time or it will crack. It can touch and rest against the outside of the electrical box and squeeze out anywhere on the backside of the drywall without consequence.

    Pull the receptacle out first (the wires should be stiff and long enough to let it hang above your work) and wrap electrical tape around the entire "blue part" of the receptacle if it is to remain in service while you work.

    You do not have to primer a little fix like this or paint an entire wall, OCD or not. If you have the old paint cans around (which you should always keep at least the lid for the color), then you might have enough to load a brush for this little fix. If not, take a picture of the color "recipe" printed on the label to the store and buy another $35ish can, you'll want one for future touchups anyway.

    Also, it does not look like you need any sort of box extenders. NEC allows a 1/4" gap between the face of the electrical box and the face of the drywall to NOT be flush.

  • 4 years ago

    Also, it does not look like you need any sort of box extenders. NEC allows a 1/4" gap between the face of the electrical box and the face of the drywall to NOT be flush.


    Let me make sure that I understand properly.


    The box (metal) is behind the drywall, which is about 1/2" thick. Are you saying that I don't need a box extender, or since it's more than 1/4" then I would need them?


    I was going to head to Lowes today to buy them, and I'll need about 40 of them. If I don't need them, though, then I could just buy longer screws for about $2 and save some money :-O

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Ok, from the crappy pic this is what I thought I was seeing, the electrical box extended into the drywall thickness a bit (the green dashed line of the back face of drywall).



    If not, then yes you would need a box extender. I don't know if the big blue/orange stores carry ~1/2" metal extenders for single gang receptacle boxes, I know they have extenders for junction boxes though. If you can find the plastic extenders on the store shelf then you can mix them with the metal boxes.

    I guess if you need longer screws then that confirms the boxes are behind the drywall. Apparently, if you have 40 metal boxes that are all inset there must have been mud rings on all of them prior to demo.

    Also something important is I think I see paper wrap and a clamp for 'romex' coming into the electrical box (as opposed to EMT conduit). If so, then those metal electrical boxes all need grounded themselves, so make sure that is present. As well make sure the receptacle itself is grounded, as I think I see backstabbed wires (and only B/W/R) so a contractor that stole your money might have left off the ground (if it's a self-grounded outlet then the plastic extender negates that).

  • 4 years ago

    Apparently, if you have 40 metal boxes that are all inset there must have been mud rings on all of them prior to demo.


    I didn't get to see them before the contractor put in the drywall, but the original walls were thin wooden paneling. They bought the house in 1977 and I suspect that the paneling was on it then, but I don't know if the metal boxes sat behind the paneling (which I suspect) or if the new contractors took them off and then re-mounted them before putting in the drywall.



    If so, then those metal electrical boxes all need grounded themselves, so make sure that is present.


    I started another thread on that one earlier today, I'm about 99% sure that they're not grounded :-O


    https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6253590/older-house-with-no-green-ground-wire


    No one in the family wants to hear it, but honestly, the best thing we could do would be to rip out everything that the contractors did and start over :-/ Literally everything is wrong, and she's spending more money trying to redneck-engineer over it than to just rip it out and do it right, ya know?