Your thorny vine sounds like Smilax, Gardenzilla. :)

indianagardengirl I think you are right! My very first thought when I googled was "bingo!". Then I saw that it grows in the tropics and subtropics. But then I saw there are like five thousand different kinds lol. But I do think I have some version of this. Mine, unfortunately, has MANY more thorns up and down the stem. Tiny, but hardly any space in between them, just to make it that much more difficult to handle lol.

:)

Dee

It’s all over my little piece of woods, and yes, terribly difficult to handle. Sigh.

Dee - I just cleaned up my daylilies. Mind you I only have three. [g] I didn’t attempt to separate the dead brown leafs from the green. I just cut everything with heavy duty scissors a couple of inches off the ground. And 3 days later I already see new foliage coming up. I have a late blooming daylily and I still have two more buds on it and waiting to cut that one back. I didn’t attempt to pull the stems, I cut them at the same time I cut the foliage. Well…except I did cut back the stems right after they finished up one at a time over a few weeks.

I found Rudbeckia way way too difficult to keep up with and removed it from my garden over a decade ago. It just would require lifting every year or two to keep it from over running everything else in the bed.

Nope, I’m not seeing a lot of critters running for it as I’m cleaning up. Three seasons in a row I’ve found preying mantis in the garden and destroyed them, but, I wonder if I have more of them than I’ve seen, that are eating a lot of bugs. And no, I think it’s early enough for them to find new digs before winter. And actually if you do the clean up in the Fall, you won’t have to disturb them in spring. I don’t think there is a way to garden without disturbing critters on a regular basis. They’ll be fine.

i use the same method for daylilies, PrairieMoon, and find the dried stems usually lift out easily. I grab handfuls of dried foliage but suspect it would be more beneficial to leave it all as mulch.

kitase - My foliage doesn't look good. Wondering if it has some infection of some kind, so I wouldn't mulch with it. I want to see how they grow next year. And I'm planning on moving them. I see so many daylilies around town that have the same appearance as mine, so I wonder if there are any daylilies with clean foliage and maybe I should just chuck my 3 and start over if someone has a recommedation for a grower who is known for healthy plants. The discoloratoin of the foliage starts early, so I don't think it's just aging.

Dee it depends on the Helenium but most like moist soil. Which do you have?

I have had H. 'Moerheim Beauty' for many decades in average soil and it is always strongly upright. It is long blooming and trouble free even in the last 3 drought years. I never water my garden since I am on a well. I have just finished digging and dividing 1 1/12 out of three clumps because rotten crown vetch had invaded the bed.

I try and deadhead carefully but yes it can get tedious. You could probably shear it back a few inches with no issue.

pm depending on the issue you might want to chuck them and start over. This seems like good for info identifying the foliage problem then deciding if they are gone. https://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheet/daylily-diseases-insect-pests/

Peren.All - Thank you for that link. Yup...that's what I have - the yellow streak down the leaves. All three and really I bought them at a local plant sale and they came out of someone else's garden. They've had the problem since the first year I had them. So, out they go.

Two questions. One, is this now a disease that is in my soil? Is something else I plant there going to have a problem too?

And two, does anyone know a good grower that has healthy daylilies?

peren.al I have tried so many over the years I can't quite recall which helenium I currently have, but I think off the top of my head it's Dancing Flames.

I wouldn't call the soil exactly moist, but it's not dry either. I suppose relatively speaking it's slightly moist. This area was originally a shady garden and did have somewhat moist soil, but over the last few years has gotten sunnier due to tree loss, and then of course this year it's almost full sun with the big tree culling by the utility company, so it is slightly drier than it has been. If I recall correctly every helenium I've grown (all in this bed) have been slightly floppy. I do think next year I will try and generally cut back the spent blooms on at least one of the clumps and see how it reblooms.

kitasei and PM2, I'm not sure why I never thought to just cut back the daylily foliage. I guess I just never knew you could, although I should have known since daylilies are in general so tough. Lol I might still feel compelled to pull out the little pieces of brown foliage!

I've seen several people give bad reviews here to Gilbert Wild but I buy a lot of my daylilies from them and have never had any issues with them. They are reasonably priced and for the most part good-sized plants, and they have all done well for me. I think Oakes might be a good source too - have heard goo things about them. I've never used them though because they are a bit pricey, and the ones I was willing to pay for always seem to be sold out!

PM2 my rudbeckia is triloba, which I believe is not a perennial - I could be wrong but I do think it's an annual. So it doesn't spread like the perennial rudbeckia. BUT... But it does reseed very freely. Last year I didn't have time to get to this bed either and it kind of took over....

I was better at deadheading later in the season though, or so I thought lol. I didn't have nearly as much in bloom this year, but there is a carpet of small plants - perhaps it is a biennial? I do love it though, I really do. I couldn't even be mad that it took over the bed last year because it was so glorious. But I plan to deadhead again, and later this season will just rip out a lot of it. But I will always have some because I love it so much.

:)

Dee

Dee, Thanks for the referral for the daylily suppliers. :-)

That is a nice dense planting of Rudbeckia. It's the perennial version that I could not keep up with. I do like the annual Rudbeckia and if I were doing annuals I'm sure I'd do that one too.

PM2 my mom planted perennial rudbeckia in our tiny front yard at the house I grew up in, and she always kind of regretted it. We lived in a rowhouse. Our yard was literally about 20 feet across and maybe 10-12 feet deep, with a sidewalk going through the middle and an enclosed front porch in it. Chainlink fence from the house to the front sidewalk. She planted the rudbeckia and sure enough, it was always popping up in the neighbor's yard. Luckily the neighbor didn't mind too much. My mom always had to keep on top of it, in our yard and the neighbor's lol. She loved it but kind of regretted planting it in the ground. She may have even tried to take it all out and put it in a pot, but never got it all and so had to keep trying lol.

:)

Dee

Dee, the house you grew up in sounds a little like my front yard. Not the chain link fence, but my front is pretty small. And we used to have a hedge down the front from the front door to the street on either side of the front walkway. We have a Maple that showers the yard with helicopters and those hedges were just full of tree saplings all the time. A mess. So we took it all out, hedge and walkway. We put a walkway going to the side to the driveway which allowed for an area to garden. I am sympathetic to what your Mom was dealing with. [g]

Out of all the plants I've had, perennial Rudbeckia stands out in my memory for how surprisingly quickly it spread and the roots were dense mats. I distinctly remember the amount of work it was to take it out. Mine was where I now grow roses and Hydrangea and a few other things, not near a lot line so I didn't have that problem. I like plants that play nice. [g] That are vigorous and increase in size in a reasonable way or gently reseed. Anything more than that and a plant doesn't have long to live in my garden. lol

Dee & pm how tall were the Rudbeckia you both refer to? If they were a problem it sounds like they may have been Rudbeckia laciniata. They are very tall and aggressive. There are certainly some very well behaved perennial Rudbeckias.

Dee R. triloba is a short lived perennial but treated as an annual. I adore them too and would never want to be without them!

I'm pretty sure my mom's were Goldsturm. They were not that tall at all - maybe 18-24 inches tall.

PM2 you reminded me. Every house on the street had a chain link fence around their yards - from the house to the main sidewalk on each side of their yard, and then along the main sidewalk. This meant the chain link fence ran along the sidewalk down the whole street. But some people did have hedges inside the fence, parts of which grew threw it over onto the sidewalk. We also had maple trees - the street was a surprisingly tree-lined street for one full of rowhouses in a city. (although sadly most of the maple trees are now gone, when I look on google maps). But I don't remember the maple helicopters causing a problem. Then again, I didn't garden then and we didn't have hedges. :)

Dee

Dee, pretty sure mine were 'Goldstrum' too. I just looked it up and the annual that I used to grow was 'Indian Summer'. I haven't grown that in years.

I grew up in the city and a lot of the yards I walked past on my way to school, sounded like your neighborhood. Lots of chain link fences all the way to the sidewallk. and yes, Mature trees all along the streets too. Yup, and I never noticed the helicopters then either. Why would you until you had to weed out the seedlings...lol.

Well, we noticed the helicopters but in a different way lol. As kids, for some reason we would pick them up off the sidewalk, split apart the ends and stick them on our noses! Sounds so silly now but I guess that's the kind of thing kids do lol.

I grow Indian Summer every year from seed. One of my favorite rudbeckias! Sometimes I sow several varieties but even if I don't I always grow triloba and Indian Summer. I actually sowed some triloba seeds this past winter. Silly me, thinking I wouldn't have any reseeding! Don't think I'll make that mistake this coming season!

:)

Dee

LOL Dee, you have a much better memory than I do, but now that you mention it, I remember doing the same thing!

No, you won't need to sow those seeds again, [g] all the more time to sow something else. Yes, the 'Indian Summer' is still my favorite too.

triloba, which I believe is not a perennial - I could be wrong but I do think it's an annual

Hey Dee, such a wonderful plant if in the right location. I consider it a biennial (if you look carefully you will likely see the rosettes, all ready for next year).