Matching can be overrated, especially in an older home. But if you want our opinions, please pist images of the finishes you plan to use, and a layout if you have one handy.

Are these images helpful? One is a rendering of the layout. A second is the cabinet finishes.

You're worried COLORS?!

Of more concern by a lot is your LAYOUT!

Whoa, whoa....

Can you post the flat on paper cad plan of this? ^

The one with all the dimensions, walls, windows, clearances at island? Note please where openings lead and full floor plan of the living floor would also be helpful.

You obviously had a challenge of walls, but.....Not loving this, and light would be the least of my worries.

As to the rest... which is far behind the layout

We aren't in your home and can never get a sense of the natural light inside -that's on you.

I would have RIPPED the old floor, and been relieved of the defining borders. It's a pretentious excess in what is probably just a very nice suburban home ( I'm noting the entry door )

All southern light, northeast and no light other exposures below, and yes green custom mix,BUT FIRST ALWAYS as noted ^^^....layout, function, clearances

Wrapped views · More Info

Wrapped views · More Info

Wrapped views · More Info

I'm totally confused by the borders on the floors. Did you take down walls? How are those borders going to align with your cabinetry? How old is this house?

Post a to scale floor plan of that kitchen space please show windows, doorways and every measurement clearly marked post here in jpeg in a comment . I have no clue as to how that layout will work in the space you show. This plan you show is a disjointed mess and I bet the ideas are from a cabinet salesperson who wants to sell cabinets. You will get some good free advice here if you do the eork of posting the to scale floor plan . The floors with that trim are just going to add to the confusion A lan of the whole main floor of the house would aslo be helpful. All the prtty stuff like cabinet color is a long way awy until you get that space designed

^^

Ditto that

Posting additional info as requested to be evaluated by those offering would be a really, really smart move.

^^

To the OP

Unless you are new to Houzz, know that @ Lori just above is the resident paint maven.

When she doesn't come back with paint advice? Yeah........: )

That's why, before you open your wallet to get what you've shown above? Please let us see what you have, via 2d

Like this.. and seeing the whole of the living floor even better WITH this. It's a thousand years of kitchen design experience , free......with your good homework as context provided

House is over 100 years old, so the floors are over 100 years old. I don't really see that as a pretentious excess since the old floors are original hardwoods. Repeating the borders I agree looks unbalanced, but I was struggling with how to continue the knots, so I tried to keep consist offsets with the boundaries of either cabinetry or walls.

The ideas for the layout stem from a previous post, so I was relying on feedback from others on this forum to help with the layout. It did not come from a person selling cabinets. See discussion here: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6482449/kitchen-remodel-design-feedback

Let me know if below is helpful.

It isn't very legible unless a finger spread on a phone in pieces.

It doesn't tell us what is around all the planned kitchen.

It does tell us it is very much a mess, and I am equally sorry to be blunt.......

and will add, to design a kitchen a.r.o.u.n.d knots in ANY flooring? No. Just no on that.

Show a full layout of the living floor, what rooms are what. Entry, exit, where is garage....etc.

We are not picking on you - don't throw this money at what you've shown.

You began the whole kitchen nine months ago.......and your thread was then as below

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6482449/kitchen-remodel-design-feedback

All the drawings are confusing and cluttered.

The site is FREE

Start over, post just the walls and windows, stair, openings all and give every single one a dimension in feet and inches. EACH!!

I did not rad yout other post I don't think but really now we have this one no more posts just deal here in comments with everything relating to this spac e. I had a 1905 home it was a kitchen from hell and odd juts in and out I sacrificed some space to get a much more functional kitchen I thing that might be agood idea here but I need an paln we can read and no cabinets in it for now .This was my 1905 kitchen when done I used one of those zigs and zgas for a wall of fridges and wine cooler you can see one fridg next to the red wallof cabinets there were old pipes from heaters hiding in there .. I am a kitchen designer and still took me quite a lot of time to figure it out Take all the free advice you get here to help you to get a fab kitchen that functions really well

not a pro at all but have lived in many very old houses - not sure how large the home is, but I have found that older homes tend not to take kitchen islands very well unless they are blessed with very large rooms. If it were me, I'd be tempted to try a less spread out layout, maybe with a more compact L or U shape -

where will the dining take place?

I don't get it. The kitchen used to be in the alcove in photo #2. I don't know why you are trying to stick it (partially) into the alcove near the entry door, lose its windows, and spread the kitchen all the way across the room. The alcove in photo #2 would appear to remain a far better choice.

Here's a couple more images and a basic top down. Is everyone looking for clearances around the island? The main goal was square footage. The hardest part about this space is that it is an old house. The bump out is an extension that was done in the 80s. I'm trying to expand sq footage to regain countertop space. I do not want to sacrifice square footage just so the space looks nice. I cook frequently and I think this is a practical layout. The clearances around the island are all pretty standard (42-48"). I'm not quite sure what the concern is from a practical standpoint. Can anyone provide feedback on what the problem is or is everyone complaining about how distant all appliances are and are tying all of their opinions to the work triangle? That's something I can't change because this house and addition were done well before I ever bought the house.The dining room is right next to the island and the living room is in the attached pictures below, in the section near the 2nd floor stairs.

May a lord in heaven please help me.

There is no well designed kitchen that uses square footage as the most MEANINGFUL driver of a design.

What do I mean?

You can have a WELL DESIGNED galley kitchen at 9' x 12' and a not whopping 72 sq feet.

Conversely you can design a kitchen requiring a pair of roller skates at 25' x 25' and 625 sq feet and a total fail in every way.

You could WANT a bigger kitchen for desires that the well designed will not accommodate., but unless the additional square feet are part of a well designed overall plan? Read FAIL

I have no clue what or why the previous owners created a BUMP, that accomplished not much, but assume they used as sitting area or nook for breakfast..........

I will be back.......The first helpful soul to jump in?

same orientation.....

Yea, that's the same orientation.

I've got my bowl of popcorn ready. I'm awaiting @JAN MOYER 's return.

She's right. I now have an NYC apartment with a galley kitchen and it has more counter space than my last house with a kitchen three times the size.

How many live in your household? What size table do you want in your dining room and to seat how many? Have you factored in the fit of the table, enough room to pull chairs out, and the radiator?

Yea, I made sure there's enough clearance between the dining room table, radiator and then gave a clearance of ~42" between the island and the dining room table, which is probably tight. Household of two.

Your entire problem began right down here: In the obsession with something I've not seen in all my years. Square foot hang up!! It is B.S.

This: Wth is this about? It's not a very "productive" conduit to logic, and worse it doesn't look good!

that wall on the right^^ should have nothing. The window isn't a factor in some explosion of light.

I can't get a screen shot of this oddity to post...

( hang on )

To the letter of the law, a fridge, a couch...a chair take up square feet, The either fit logically, or they do not! You can't crawl OVER either one, can you get around them, is there adequate space to open a fridge door!?!

( this is NOT the way you plan furniture, either)

Put feet and inches to the walls, the windows,

A patio (slider) is not a swing to outside door! Neither are windows shown as that!

This: assign it a different PURPOSE. Give it up

for fridge and sink

sneak A PANTRY IN THERE! Like below, shelves on the other ( right) side!

^^

The kitchen as you have planned, same as nine months ago is ugly in placement of fixtures, is fine in COLORS. Let the "useless to a decent kitchen" square feet GO. Don't clog the entry/exit to basement .You live in a home never intended for an island as we know islands. Turn it to a mud space, to a shallow shelved pantry! Do anything, allowing you to get at whatever you put in there. Use electricity in the kitchen! Have a view at the sink!

Jmo....... that jog, that square feet of no mans land, just prevents a kitchen that works, and one that more aptly acknowledges the 1920 house. You are two people, don't tell me you starve to death in here.

Now you are working on color schemes where are you in the kitchen design issues that you did not get working? You need to het the bones right then worry about wall colors .Please tell me you are not trying to seel yourself as akitchen designer and where are the posts now about the kitchen

Shazam @JAN MOYER. This goes on your top 10 list. Curious what @Kitchen Remodel thinks. I too cook a lot and when I remodeled my 200 year old Philly house, every designer wanted to cram an island in. I put my foot down and searched until I found a designer who understood that a skinny island didn't belong in my kitchen.

Skinny base cabinets against a wall are fine. But the problem with a skinny island is you have to be so careful not to shove an item off the other side. And if it is an island with chairs, you don't have any room to both use it as seating and extra counter space at the same time.

Instead, of an island, I opted for a regular height dining table in the kitchen. #1 It allowed people to sit in the room while I cooked. #2 It was big usable counter space for cooling items pulled from the oven, prepped bowls of ingredients for when I was juggling many recipes at one, place to sit the waiting to be dressed salad. Place to throw a thick drying towel and big pots and pans.

People who love to cook covet counterspace. I do too. But not all counterspace is ACTIVE counter space because lots of steps of a recipe (though I hardly ever use recipes) involves things sitting around until the step in which they are used. A table serves this purpose so well and leaves your countertops available for chopping, stirring, grating, beating.

I'd use the pantry behind the wall with an open shelving unit beneath the window (I'd store in frequently used pots, pans, small appliances on it) and shallow shelves along the side. Something sort of like this:

Here is the kitchen in my old house. These are wide angled real estate photos. The room was much smaller feeling. That table might not look like much but was a freaking work horse and better than any island could have been.

Being Philly, ours was a row house. So every home was mostly the same inside. It was interesting to see who would use and island and who would opt for the table. Families with kids used the cramped island and had less cooking space. Couples who were more serious cooks opted for a table.

"Elvis " may be gone from the building or will just proceed......: ) as planned.

^^^^I hope that's not the case - you've provided a great solution to the kitchen layout. The kitchen won't feel so spread out + it will have a great pantry!

Elvis could also be at work. :)

Even if they don't return or don't use your plan, it still lives in my mind as the reality of this home.

Oh man! I had written out a long post describing these two layout ideas in detail and showing the measurements. I was almost done but had to do something else first. Came back to post and my ipad had died so I lost it all! GRRRR! 😤

Jan’s layout is great as usual. 💕

I was just thinking that the OP probably would not be up for moving the plumbing and gas line since they are already installed, or give up the island, (Oh the horror! 😂) so I came up with a couple ideas keeping the perimeter mostly the same.

However, both require adding a prep sink to the island or they will not be functional.

@Kitchen Remodel let me know your thoughts.

Layout 1

This one give you a humongous island (9’ long!) so plenty of countertop prep space for multiple cooks. I changed the fridge to a standard depth so it would be closer for landing/unloading groceries on to the island. MW drawer on island across from fridge.

The aisle from the clean up sink to the island is around 60”, which is very big! However, keep in mind that your clean up zone is back to back with your island prep zone. In that case, you really need extra room. I think you will appreciate having more space when someone is prepping at the island and another is loading/unloading the DW at the same time.

One issue I see in this layout is there is no good place for a pantry in the kitchen proper. Anything on the right wall/walkway to the basement stairs would make that aisle too tight. But, I actually love that being a straight shot for carrying laundry baskets to/from the basement. It also lines up well with your pretty inlay pattern on the floor. I added a shallow pantry to the left wall around the corner from the patio door. Not sure where else it could go. That is one compromise if you like the longer island.

Layout 2

Shorter island (8’ so still big), back to the shallow fridge. Gains a narrow pantry on the right wall in the kitchen proper. But, please do not crowd it towards the basement door. Use the space for artwork or something cute like cutting boards or whatever hanging on the wall to fill in blank space of you must. Pet food/water dishes would be perfect there if you have a pet.

The reason I put the butcher block counter facing the range is because it visually breaks up a long island making it look more proportional imho. Plus it looks nice and makes sense with the cabinet facing the other direction towards the range, again imho. Something like this?Maybe match the wood countertop with the color of wood floor inlay?

Well shoots!

I should have read through your previous thread from 9 months ago before bothering to throw out my ideas.

I just read through it and you definitely don’t have enough space for the dining room table. Especially since I also failed to recognize that was an old wall radiator heater on the bottom dining room wall. Duh! SMH!

I could squeeze up the aisles and shrink the island width for sure, but I still think it falls short. Bummer. 😞

Oh well, I had fun trying anyways!

ETA:

I seriously hope you will reconsider your layout. You may need to lose the island and switch things around. I hate to be blunt and mean, but there is just way too much for me to type right now explaining how bad your proposed layout is. So sorry.

@ Rebunky

Look at it this way: We REALLY tried. ?

His first issue was the hang up on sq feet, and the second was planning around inlays and restrictive borders ; a detail in the floor that could easily have been eliminated to equal design freedom.. THAT is the reason for the dining table placement, I believe.

It's also why we ask for the entire living floor, every solid wall, window passage and to where it goes, in a d.r.a.w.i.n.g. IT'S FINE to add the pictures, the text .......but the help here is f.r.e.e and nobody is going to kill themselves /days on end trying to help....no matter anyone who is helping/ wants an op to get the best outcome.

Staying in a SINGLE thread is helpful, as I posted the old.....and ALWAYS check for that "reveal"

Nine months ago I might have explored a bump of the house to include that N corner and eliminate the JOG entirely. That would have led to a great kitchen, easy peasy.

Ok, one last try just for fun.

I tried keeping everything making sense with the floor inlays. Hopefully it does not encroach into the dining room border this time. It would be helpful to include the dining room space into the layout and mark out where the borders are.

Sorry, no island. 😢

The gas line and the plumbing would need to swap places, but I think the existing holes will still work. If they need to move slightly, you will never see the patch underneath the cabinets.

This gives you a separate cleanup zone in the bump out with tons of dish and glassware storage. I thought the uppers on the top wall could be glass front and do hidden tape lights inside. Nice ambiance at night.

I might see about adding a third window above the sink to mimic the dining room. But you could do a pretty pendant light or wall sconce above it and art on the wall. I personally would not put a cabinet above the sink there.

The small drawer base to the left of the DW would be great for dish rags, towels, sponges, extra gloves, etc...

You could do a super susan in the corner or a blind corner pullout for storing small appliances. Crockpot, instant pot, coffee grinder, blender, food processor, etc… I actually would keep the coffee pot and my vitamix blender out on the counter for my daily smoothies.

The top wall would serve as a coffee/drink making station. The fridge drawers could be two fridges or a separate fridge and freezer. Fridge could be for soft drinks, mixers, cream for coffee, snacks... The freezer could be for ice and frozen fruit for making smoothies or maybe strawberry daiquiris?😋

It would also be a great area for setting up a buffet for parties, keeping guests out of the main kitchen. If you got a sink with a cutting board to go over it, you could have the whole L countertop for a large buffet.

Dishes and glasses are easy to put away from the DW. Also easy access for setting the table, again out of the main kitchen.

In the main kitchen there is a nice big stretch of countertop between the prep sink and stove. It is so much easier to just bring food from the fridge, wash in prep sink, prep on counter, and slide stuff down to cook. Your layout has you washing, picking it all up and moving to the island, then picking it all up again and bringing to the stove located across the room. Dripping on the floor as you go. Then walking a mile back to the fridge if you need to add an extra ingredient to the dish. You also have the prep zone and cleanup zone opposite each other with a very tight isle in between.

With the U layout someone can be “fridge shopping” or using the MW and it is not in the prep zone. Prep zone and cooking zone is nice and protected from traffic.

Nice wide U, but not too wide. Fridge, prep sink, and stove are all just a few steps from each other.

A 12” deep pantry faces the dining room. 12” can hold all kinds of pantry items and it is nice how when you open the doors that you can see everything at once. Nothing gets buried in the back.

There is actually quite a few upper cabinets near the cooking zone. Great for storing oils, vinegars, condiments, tall spice jars, food, and things that you use frequently while cooking or microwaving.

The pony walls under the peninsula countertop are for plumbing the prep sink.

The new ”basement/kitchen” wall and peninsula wall would be in line with the existing right walI looking intensional.

I thought the basement hallway walls would be awesome for displaying art or family photos.

Well, I wish you the best, whatever you decide!

@Kitchen Remodel,

Are you still here?

I forgot about the electrical holes for the island already drilled through the floor.

So here is an idea that hopefully covers all the holes. And has an island!

But does still require switching the sink and range pipes.

This has been quite challenging, but I love a challenge. I may not have it figure it out yet, but I have fun playing. ☺️

Note: I didn’t do the math so the aisles and island may need to adjust. I just eye balled and counted the squares.

Also the little ledge shelf would be the height of the window, replacing the sill. Hope that makes sense. I thought it might be cute and connect the window with the bump out cabinets.

Hi @rebunky, I appreciate you taking the time to still spend on this freely. That bump out is uninsulated/unheated, so gas is really all that works without converting the entire crawlspace. I'm curious if you have thoughts on the concept of a 5 zone kitchen versus a work triangle. We have multiple chefs in the kitchen, so that's been another factor in all of this.

"That bump out is not insulated/unheated, so gas is really all that works without converting the entire crawlspace."

I'd have sat myself down nine months ago, gone to the bank, blown the NORTH corner, and I'd have this done by now....( 1/4 inch to one foot )

I don't agonize on sponges and rags, I don't even agonize over a bar fridge, because I live in a 1920 house with a lot of other inconveniences. I'd have torn the defining borders out of the floor, and WERE I to be 100% obsessed with square footage, I'd have gotten the USEFUL square footage I needed, (wanted ) for a kitchen that works, and looks good .

Admiral attempts up there courtesy @ Rebunky and yes even me. But none are what you really want.

Which is the idiotic &^%$#@ very restricting corner / the very inhibiting jog in my kitchen obliterated! If I needed to wait a year? You've been AT it for nine months and there's no kitchen order in place. That whole west side, minus 48" for range and hood would flood my kitchen with light.

No, I don't know exterior, what roof line impact exists. Nobody does: )

@jan moyer, I would've loved to do that, but there are steps from the basement out to the back yard in that corner. I would've needed to excavate the back yard and add new steps to the basement there. I absolutely agree with you that if I had the money, I would blow that corner out, but there were only so many corners and walls we could take out and stay within budget. That corner is where the old block house and the "newer" bump out wood framing meet, so it's structural and you would need to figure out how to support both roof lines (bump out + regular house).

Rebunkys last layout is growing on me…it’s a cleaned up version of where the OP was leaning and improves on the 5 zone/multiple chef approach. With a layout this tight it would be best to lay out the whole space in the floor plan - including the dining space showing your exact furnishings. Also, show the layout WITH the accent stripes in the floor shown dotted in. If your layout is fighting with those accent bands it will look awful.

This excerpt below is taken from the New to Kitchens Thread under Work Zones, what are they.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5500762/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5972404/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first-2020-interim#n=16

Common Zones -- Appliances in That Zone -- Suggestions for What to Store There:

.

Food Storage -- pantry & refrigerator -- food, food storage containers, wraps & plastic bags

.

Prep -- sink & trash/recyclables -- utensils, measuring cups/spoons, mixing bowls, colander, jello molds, cutting boards, knives, cookbooks, paper towels, small appliances (e.g., can opener, blender, hand mixer, etc.)

.

Cooking -- cooktop/range & warming drawer & MW (and near a water source) -- utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, serving dishes (platters, bowls, etc.), paper towels

.

Baking -- ovens/range -- utensils, pot holders, trivets, pans, casserole dishes, roasting rack, cooling racks, cookie sheets, foils, rolling pin, cookie cutters, pizza stone, muffin tins, paper towels [often combined with Cooking Zone]

.

Cleanup -- sink & DW & not too far from trash or a separate trash bin -- detergents, linens, dishes & glasses, flatware

.

Eating/Serving -- island/peninsula/table/nook/DR -- table linens, placemats, napkins, dishes & glasses, flatware

.

Utility -- broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, cleaning supplies, cloths, flashlights, batteries, extension cords

.

Message/Communication/Command Center -- keys, phone (if a landline), answering machine, charging station, directories/phone books, calendar, desk supplies, dry erase board or chalkboard, pens/pencils, sticky notepaper, mail sorter, etc.

This is a good place to put school papers -- first to sign, and then for children to pick up and take back to school, or to keep track of things to do/needed for school.

.

Less Common Zones:

.

Tea/Coffee Center -- tea/coffeemaker (and near a water source) -- mugs, teas/coffees, teapot, filters, infusers, sweeteners, coffee, tea, etc.

.

Snack/Beverage Center -- near MW & refrigerator or small refrigerator -- snacks, snack dishes, glasses [often combined with Tea/Coffee Center]

.

Pet Zone -- feeding area -- food, snacks, leashes, medicines (if no small children in the home), etc.

Sometimes zones overlap, so that is where you need to add more aisle space. For example how your cleanup zone is back to back with your prep zone in your proposed layout.

You said,

”That bump out is uninsulated/unheated, so gas is really all that works without converting the entire crawlspace.”

Can you explain what you mean? Sorry I am not understanding. Why can’t a sink go where you show the range? Thanks!

@thinkdesignlive said,

”With a layout this tight it would be best to lay out the whole space in the floor plan - including the dining space showing your exact furnishings. Also, show the layout WITH the accent stripes in the floor shown dotted in. If your layout is fighting with those accent bands it will look awful.”

I asked for this up thread as well.

Those inlay borders are already a done deal, so if we knew exactly where they were located to the fraction of an inch, we could possibly work with them.

However. please, for the love of kitchens, do not box yourself in if those borders will make your kitchen dysfunctional. 😩

The border is defining his dining table.....fairly certain on that? As to kitchen sink

that I don't understand, they are on exterior walls..........everywhere, even on a slab in the northeast.