What is the minimum number of seats you want at your island?

@Kendrah we need at least 3 seats, for the 3 kids!

@Carole Vaudable Interior Design if we kept it that length, do you think there's too much "empty space" after the island, or will it feel nice and open?

The entire space seems poorly planned, as if you are working around existing windows and doors/doorways.

@PPF, this is not helpful feedback at all, but thanks 🙄

I see a 48" something, maybe a windowless opening not drawn as a window or entrance at the bottom of the layout. What is that? The frig seems to be a full depth model instead of counter depth or integrated. I'd like to delete that frig run and put a counter depth or SZ integrated frig in the back pantry run. The 97" window wall at the upper left is better for function as a window at counter height. Then the sink/range run can include that 97" length. And with the frig run deleted the island can be lengthened and moved back into the space enough to allow seating and clearance to the wet bar. The sink and dw can go under the 97" window and the induction range moved over a bit to the right, 8-12". Reduce the counter length by 30".

If you narrow the wet bar area to 21” what would the distance be with chairs pulled out or can the island be narrower/use less bulky chairs as well.

To fill the gap: if keeping as is, could add a small section on end (without chairs), but I’d wait until you’ve had a chance to work in the space.

You could extend, add two chairs on end, but narrow counter where chairs will be (having 4 chairs would be a bonus).

Not a pro for sure - I don’t think you would be happy with the pinch point in front of the wet bar if you extend the island -

with simple low key counter stools, I would imagine you could have 3 spots to sit at the 90” island - with a table right there, seems like you’re just looking for a spot to perch anyway

per dan’s suggestion - I will say we opted for an integrated fridge in our reno and it felt like it helped a lot with how the clearances felt, happy we did that (it’s an investment tho)

100 lbs of poop in a 50 lb bag?

Sorry.......no to the bar. You are crowding ......and not enough info as to what is all around the kitchen, where openings lead etc.

You may not like PPF comment, but I think we both see flaw and crowd.

I'd want a fridge closer to a dining table for dinner with kids, so there's that as well.

We also don't have a clue as to where you began, and any pre existing conditions

What room is to the right and connected by the wide opening to the kitchen? Is it feasible to turn the wet bar 90 degrees? You can reduce the opening with a wall behind the wet bar or you can leave the wet bar open and accessible from both rooms.

It looks like the aisle between the island and reoriented wet bar would be at about 5’ which means you could lengthen the island by another foot and still have a 48” walkway between the island and wet bar. You could create even more space by backing the wet bar 2’ further into the connected room.

Expand the island's cabinets but not the island's seating.

Use 12 in deep counter/cab at the proposed wet bar area...do extend the island and place a 2nd sink at fridg end of island . I would use that wet bar corner [not omit totally] as you need counter for various landing needs w large number of people ...2nd sink over to island. Please write in so the details can be read . Fridge wall arrangement of things may need some adjustments. the other thing .....if you want to make the use out of wet bar area as proposed [but Id put 2nd sink on longer island ] ...there is always recessing back into that wall...allowing the greater depth / .what is on the other side?

You're a mile from the fridge.

Nobody died from lack of a wet bar: )

and the bare 42" of clearance in a busy cook aisle is tight.....especially if there is a helper. Quick trace over

IMO all the walkways are too small and if this is a cabinet sales person get a proper independant KD I can barely read the plan but the fridge ppears to be a mile away from the sink and no way you should pass a range to go to the sink from the fridge . IMO not a KD involved here I do not understand the need to extend the island on the left when there appers to be space on the right .

Here is a better picture with some indicators on what's around the kitchen:

-We have gone through what feels like 100 iterations of designs with our designer, this is the best layout for our family/function. We are opening into our dining room, which hasn't been used in 10 yrs for actual dining! Our current layout is tight with 3 kids and no pantry space.

-We can't move windows and doorways, or open up the doorways, due to other restrictions like basement stairs and bathroom

-We are good with the location of the fridge even though it feels far. We prefer it next to the cooking/prep vs table. Right now it's by our table and far from cooking and it's a pain.

-Counters where the fridge is will be built out to line up with the fridge more, so it's not sticking out as much. That's not shown in this pic.

@Mark Bischak, Architect that's a great idea, thank you for that input!

@herbflavor there is a staircase behind the wetbar, and mudroom next to it that goes into our garage (just realized the door to the mudroom is missing on the drawing)

@JAN MOYER Haha! You're right, but I've been wanting a wet bar forever! We entertain on on screened porch a lot, so having the drink station right in the middle would be nice :)

@Design Fan to the right is our family room. Love the out of the box idea! Let me think about that a bit more, wondering if that would cut off flow to the family room?

@la_la Girl 100% It's a perch spot for morning rush. I really wanted the integrated fridge, just couldn't make it work right now :( Our fridge broke so needed to jump and get a new one asap.

@Maureen thank you! Yes - you're right, we are looking for low clearance stools. I never thought of putting something on the end there to fill the space. That's actually an interesting idea!

@dan1888 thanks for the input. I think we're good with the overall layout!

It sounds like the overall opinion about the island question, is to leave it at the size below!

A FRIDGE CAN BE NEAR prep......and near a table.

You aren't showing pics of the existing. We can only tell you flaws we see.

You have an island with no appliances. You go from fridge, to sink, to island to heat.

And I get the urge for a wet bar.......not where you have it.

Your house, we can't stop you: )

Sorry, here's the existing floorplan.

It looks like the opening between the living room and dining room will be fully closed off when you add the pantry. Consider instead a pocket door for the flexibility to access the kitchen/pantry and living room.

If you will be using the breakfast nook for casual dining, consider bench seating along the window wall which may give you more walkway room if you turn the wet bar 90 degrees/reduce the opening/walkway between the kitchen and breakfast nook/family room.

The window and family room door on the porch wall may not be in the best positions to be centered on the nook’s table and for optimal family room seating/TV locations. You may want to relook at that as part of your renovation.

Good luck! Please post after photos.

Do you have a plan with the new kitchen on the whole floor plan? I’m having trouble seeing how it is placed. I think you can do far better though.

"The average kitchen island size is . . . "

But who wants an average kitchen island?

Sometimes people get excited about cabinets, and the intricacies of kitchen design (Do I need another 1" here? Will my mixer work on this counter?), and miss the forest for the trees. Sometimes commenters get railroaded into answering a specific question and overlooking anything else to not hurt an OP's feelings.

PPF's comment was short, but calls attention to a flawed concept in this layout: the huge 8' long bay window x probably close to 4.5' high that requires the empty space in front of it. How is it looking out from the Pantry, or looking inside to a short wall and layout that has nothing to do with the window location? Or from the Family Room looking toward that end of the house? Or standing at the sink and your eye is pulled toward the bright sunlight coming in to the left of your vision? The "window seat?" The huge hole in the wall (the bay window) is calling attention to something, what would it be then? Why is it being kept when spending so much money and effort on a Kitchen remodel? How does the two circulation routes into the Kitchen (the Living Room and Powder hallway) being so close alter the feel of the Kitchen?

This looks like a typical center-hall Colonial. No doubt it is a difficult task to design a Kitchen with a long, linear layout. There have been a handful of threads on center-hall Colonials on this forum that might be worth visiting to get some ideas.

The terrible truth is not every kitchen is meant to have an island. : )

Was just thinking the same thing as Jan!

Prior thread: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6452905/expanding-my-kitchen-to-the-dining-room-design-help

@3onthetree thank you for the updated pic. A lot of folks hate on a bay window, but we love it. We get a lot of light there, and it's been a great spot to grow our herbs and other plants, which is why we aren't getting rid of it.

I did look through a lot of threads, some of them are probably mine that are out there when initially designing. Got a LOT of negative feedback from almost everyone on knocking down our dining wall, except one designer finally saw what we wanted and gave us an ah-ha moment and we went from there back to our local designer.

Our designer did an identical plan for another client with almost the same layout/measurements as ours, and we saw it and it looks amazing. So, we're in it.

I really was just looking for feedback on that "pinch point" around the island, but appreciate everyone's other comments! Hopefully this thread will help someone in the future! I'll try to remember to post after pics many months from now when it's complete.

Looking back on older threads, I had completely forgotten about this house. Glad to know I was consistent in what I said, as were all the other commenters.

You are destined to go against the grain, and that is your right. Good luck with the remodel and hopefully you won't have to microwave dinners for too long.

Good way to ruin the home's value on something pigheaded, idiosyncratic, and functionally awful. Paper mistakes are a lot easier rectified than wood and stone sitting in your kitchen.

I don’t think that’s a fair comment. People redo their homes so they can enjoy them, live in them, love them. Unless you were planning to move within ten years, who cares what market stuff says at all.