You're trying to force a kitchen into a room that it does not fit into.

How far down hall is pantry? That, too, would concern me. Gathering ingredients will be a hike.

IMHO, there are too many openings and not enough wall space to make this kitchen actually function.

I would shrink the opening to the dining room and put the fridge where it's marked Cabinets/Combi but closer to the (shrunken) dining opening. Put a cabinet with countertop where the cabinet/combi is so you can place things coming out of the fridge or for groceries going into the fridge. This way you'd have all your work zone appliances at the same end.

Where is the entire existing condition? You took a wall down? Where is the full measure/layout as it now exists, to include mud area and dining and family room

I can almost predict it, but if not yet in progress, show a full living condition.

Otherwise? Lose/move the sliders as you do not have enough wall where you need wall.

Post a to scal plan of the space with nothing in it show every window doorway and where those lead . Every measurement clearly marked , use graph paper makes it easy . Post here in jpeg format in a comment . This will get you real help from actual KD not cabinet salespeople who are limited by software.. We also need info like why 6 stools? I will strat by saying a pantry outside the work space is not good.The min walkway from wall to counter with stools is 60" and in front of a frdige more .

That needs to stay a kitchen with a peninsula, and separate breakfast room. That is why you are struggling.

Stop trying to make fetch happen. That house cannot support a humongous out of scale kitchen. The small kitchen that was there previously is what fits the home.

What is the existing layout? Becsuse that is what probably works far better than that unworkable design.

This is essentially the existing layout which is the struggle. the only difference we’re suggesting is removing a half wall between the kitchen and family room (serves no purpose today and will allow us to expand the kitchen a bit) and opening the wall to the dining room by 55” so we can use our dining room as an everyday dining area and not a formal dining room. I like the island with stools for informal eating like breakfast or snack/lunch but we eat family dinner every night and i dont want to lose the dining table. Opening that wall a little makes it feel like the formal dining area is part of the kitchen. I’ve attached a not to scale layout with measurements of the existing space that I drew up, as well as a few real photos of the space with some measurements, and a sketch of the back space behind the kitchen

Ill also note our goal is to modernize the kitchen with new cabinets etc but I don’t want to sink a ton of money in. While we’re renovating it’d be great to make subdtle change that can hopefully improve the layout, but I’m not interested in moving the backyard door which becomes a major project to close that door and create a new exterior door, restucco the house, fix the back patio etc. so ideally i’m trying to tweak and improve but also come to terms that the existing layout isn’t great and without major changes it is what it is so trying to figure out how to maximize what’s there. another thought i had is could we leave the fridge where it is today (next to back area doorway) but have it be counterdepth of course and then expand the doorway opening just a bit to improve the traffic flow in that area. this would mean cutting into the proposed cabinet area to the left of the range, and the pantry in the back area but i think thats ok. then maybe we build a pantry area in the wall where the proposed coffee bar/fridge is in the new layout?

The only way I see this working is if you shift the mudroom door down and eliminate the cabinets on the lower wall. Then you can move the fridge to be on the range wall. But you show ducting there so maybe you can't do that. If not, then it's your original layout. Or you get a 30" range and put the fridge on the range wall, which should leave you about 21" on each side of the range (132-24-30-36)/2=21).

Or move the sliders down and add the fridge on the sink wall.

The fridge where you have it is way worse than the original layout. Like, 100x worse. Like, might be a deal breaker for future buyers worse.

Other notes.

39" aisles are also too small.

Your island looks way out of proportion to the rest of the kitchen.

None of that is proportionate, or functional. That is obvisouly 2 separate rooms that you are trying to smash together to be 1. That is not going to happen. And should not happen. If you want a giant kitchen with an acre island, you need a different house to fit it into. So, what about spending the 200K+ that a large kitchen costs on selling and moving to the bigger house that you want?

I would not remove the wall to the family room. I really dont see all that much wrong with the existing kitchen, if thats it in the pictures above. I definitely agree, you are trying to make something that doesnt fit in with the rest of the house. Step back, and stop and think, about it all for a few days.

The existing kitchen is better in every way. Leave the wall alone. You'd be spending 15K+n for wall removal, to make things worse, and then have to replace all the floors in the home. Plus the 100K kitchen. Plus whatever that snowball into. And it will snowball.

I'll dissent: )

I can't count how many times I have removed that wall....the half open half not ! thing. It crowds a dining area.....

At any rate,

The issue here is you have NOT shown the dining room you plan to use as daily dining.

What are the dimensions? Could you push into the dining room a bit as it would help tremendously.

Come back with that, please?

Also, some of us are on the computer, hate the app so re- post your pictures as jpegs, not screen shots?

Consider moving to a new larger house if the kitchen is not ”large enough” for you. Because the rest of the house would not be large enough either, if that were the case.

Thank you so much to everyone with thoughtful opinions and advice! To those telling me I should move to a bigger house, not sure how that’s productive insight. I’m not trying to make my kitchen bigger. We’re renovating cabinets and floors and taking this opportunity to analyze flow. the current set up is horrible. theres a weirdly awkward island in the middle, then directly next to it a kitchen table against a half wall that completely blocks flow out to the backyard. so I’m proposing creating a longer rectangle island and removing the half wall to create MUCH more natural flow from family room or front door or kitchen out to the backyard. then i’d like to widen the opening to the dining room by 2 ft so we can use the formal dining area, that’s NEVER used currently, and actually make it functional. not sure how any of this results in a bigger kitchen? i wish i did, but here we are. So the question is placement for the fridge. based on ideas shared, i think we’ll leave it where it is today but maybe shift it over to the left a bit so it’s center aligned to the walking area between range/island. then, i can feasibility to widen the doorway to the mudroom/back area by a foot to make thqt passageway a bit easier, I’m ok losing some cabinet space we have plenty. then maybe i can create a pantry cabinet of sorts between the foyer doorway and dining area doorway. i hate that the pantry is not in the kitchen today

What makes you so convinced that widening an already existing doorway is going to make you use a dining room you don't use currently? The secret to using a dining room is to use the dining room.

The refrigerator in its existing location, just how often and for how long is the door open that it impedes traffic through that doorway to negative effect?

You clearly are not listening.

@bpath great question. mostly only twice a day when I’m prepping breakfast for the kids while my husband is using bathroom, packing his work bag, and leaving for work from garage. then same with after work, while im prepping dinner and he’s coming home. and the kids are running around wherever i am. but you’re question is valid, i think its not enough to make a bigger change so i think we’ll leave the fridge where it is today. what do you think about cutting back the cabinet (opposite fridge) a foot or so in order to widen the doorway. would that make a difference and make the flow a bit easier? if not i will leave as is

@Minardi sorry if I missed your suggestion. what do you think would be a better option?

I think widening your mudroom doorway would help.

Shifting the fridge to be at the opening to your aisle is also a good idea.

You still need to shrink the island. Get 48" aisles in there.

I’ll leave the layout to the experts but if it were me, I would want more time in the dining room seeing the pretty windows thru the doorway - and would just make that a comfortable room for family dinner with the right furniture & lighting. For the kitchen, I would shrink the table that’s there to a round bfast table to open up the space and help force the use of the dining room, i’d remove the half wall between the family room as well as the built-in desk, and rework the island shape - these changes will neccessitate new flooring throughout and would enable continuous wood like what is in the dining room (nothing connects 2 rooms more than having the same flooring)

Can you PLEASE show and measure the dining room, and show the whole family room? Please?

Why? I've been down this exact layout multiple times. : )

How many eat at the same time ,please? I assume four kids and the two of you?

I agree with widening the doorway to mudroom a bit. I would also suggest not using the mudroom-pantry, and instead creating more vertical pantry cabinetry around the fridge, so that your pantry storage is actually in the kitchen.

@rebasheba agree, we’re trying to figure out how to get some vertical pantry storage in the kitchen, it’s so annoying they put that in the mudroom!

@JAN MOYER we are 2 adults and 3 kids, but typically my mom and/or dad is with us so dinner is typically 6 people, other meals typically 4 (my kids are toddlers so eat all meals at home still). I’m suggesting the island gets shrunk a bit and is 3 seats on one side and 2 seats on the other, feels more intimate. i envision the island for breakfast, lunch, snack, and spot for kids to hang will i make dinner, then our dining room table becomes the main spot for dinner (and of course anything else when we host which is frequently). I’ve attached photos of the family room on the other side of the half wall (18 ft from fireplace to half wall, 16 ft other way), and the dining room (17ft from kitchen to window, 13ft other way). youll see the layout of the full first floor in one of my earlier images. hopefully this helps. Appreciate any insight based on your experience!!

WELL!!!

We crossed. A big house with a small kitchen. Yes, lose the half wall.

Push that dining room wall back!? Even if it means you rotate the table?

Lose the congestion, even a foot would help immensely from the dining room.Want more you shrink the prep portion of my 36 x 96 prep island to 36 x 72

Bonus above? Two cooks in your kitchen at the same time, comfortably, no kids in the prep /cook

Butting a dining height table to prep island..... Same solid surface or wood top! I believe you still have a ton of room for seating in Family room and keep kids AWAY from all prep, still a normal dining height and just as good for being near the action, Sitting 6 inches higher is a better snack? lol

You will still have a full fourteen feet from end of the dining table to the fire in family room and you can have more.....just shorten prep as above.

'lwhere I wrote foyer IS THE SAME dining room opening oops : )

So.... this is not actually correct, is it?

"That house cannot support a humongous out of scale kitchen. The small kitchen that was there previously is what fits the home."

It doesn't suit the home. This is the why we ask for the WHOLE picture

Truthfully.......I might reverse play storage and formal dining. Why? Having a dining for special occasions is a nice thing for children! Dress up , set the table in advance. Sunday with Grammy and Grampa and Miss Manners!

Take the dining room for toys...a little closure there is good thing! and a less deafening house as it is a bit tooooo open. I'd go so far as to add some wall at the front door. Some sense of entry other than plop....I'm in.

This is where the floor plan for the entire living floor is invaluable. For us and for you.

I was wondering why so many people assumed that the OP was trying to add a kitchen that was too large for the house when we didn't have any information regarding the size of the home. At least two users told the OP that he/she should move to a larger home + one of them scolded the OP for not listening.

Jan asked for more information towards the top of the post + asked again two more times. This post is a good example of why pros ask for more information regarding the surrounding rooms. They are not trying to be nosy - a kitchen does not exist in a vacuum. The details related to the rooms surrounding the kitchen are vital when developing the new layout.

You have a lovely home!

I wondered if it might be possible to bump the range wall back into the shallow pantry space in the mudroom? You could then slide the sink to the left, enlarge the sink window to make it still centered. It shouldn’t be a major ordeal to patch the exterior if you are just enlarging, not moving, the window. The fridge could then hopefully fit on the sink wall between the window and the slider.

I put the MW and CSO to the left of the range.

Pantry wall is totally flexible. If you don’t need that much pantry storage, you could do a cabinet with countertop space in the corner for a drop zone for mail, keys, etc…

I considered a range wall push back, ( ala Rebunky above ) but the laundry is behind that range wall. So I am back here. In Pink I am showing the half wall to ditch

I adjusted a bit. ( Note I used lowered dining. You don't have to. If the stools have backs, this is fine at counter height. You pick. The dining room table is still there..in the dining room: )

That SAME 36" height means more room for big cookie sheets, rolling dough or whatever!

What has the OP mentioned above......

Fridge "congestion"!!

" Intimacy" snacks/ breakfast and lunch

Grandparents wanted at dinner

Three kids, an infant and two toddlers

Useless Island !

Hard to get outdoors at the slider with table in the way

"The dining room we never use" which by the way is 13 ' wide and 17 feet long!!!!to the window wall. Begging a theft.

Personally, I understand the urge to make this dining everyday dining and all purpose. But this is a loooong way to schlep table to a dishwasher and clean up; it will be a gigantic daily mess visible through a lot of front window. As will the sink mess be visible.

Just does not feel practical on a daily basis.

Children do not remain toddlers. Few families need both living room and family room. It is not UNCOMMON that once school and sports arrive in your life, the dining room is still only Christmas and Thanksgiving...maybe Easter. But it is still great to have, it's projects, homework , sports pizza parties.

The easiest wall to move, with the least amount of disruption to plumbing, no disruption to existing windows, is the dining room wall.

Want less congested passage behind the range wall? Cut that existing pantry back to 18"! You don't need 24 inches for food and paper towels...or for infrequent anything else. You have new pantry in the kitchen to the darn ceiling.

There ya go...

@JAN MOYER thank you!!!

- love the idea of pushing the dining room wall back but its a load bearing wall. as i understand it opening the doorway is manageable but moving the whole wall is a big project. but im definitely going to explore that

- you have the pantry next to the fridge and oven/MW, what do you think about moving the pantry to the wall between doorway to dining room and doorway to foyer? then maybe adding a coffee bar area? or make it all pantry? We drink a lot of coffee, not sure where else to put the coffee machine (its currently just a counter top unit)

- if i dont move the dining room wall back, how much should i cut out from the existing pantry to make the doorway to the back area flow better?

- silly question but we use a drying rack for big items that dont fit in the DW. its a part of kitchen life but i have the clutter. any nifty options to create a cabinet to the right of the sink or a drawer that is a drying area but tried to hide some of that clutter? i assume not but doesnt hurt to ask!

You're gonna be sooooory! : )

"silly question but we use a drying rack for big items that dont fit in the DW. its a part of kitchen life but i have the clutter. any nifty options to create a cabinet to the right of the sink or a drawer that is a drying area but tried to hide some of that clutter? i assume not but doesnt hurt to ask! "

I get there are kids. But I never abide the sink side clutter. Wash pots and pans, yes, by hand. Dry. Stow. do you want this to look good? I assume you do!!!

You can run that DW twice a day!

Is it possible this is a post? in disguise?

There are ways around that.

There isn't going to be perfect here, and I might add.....drink less coffee? : )