Sorry. The inspector is 100% correct.

Even though you did this yourself you still had to go through all the same permits and inspection processes as real contractors.

Chicagoland has some of the most onerous fire/electrical codes in the country. If you'd had done the proper permitting and inspection process, you'd have been potentially clued into the code violations way earlier. Construction dumpsters are a dead giveaway to code enforcement people.

I assume you mean AC, BX is obsolete.

You said the inspector came into your home. I presume you let him in? Why did you seem compelled to let him in? A policeman can't enter your home unless you allow them or they think there is probable cause. The issue of using 100% conduit is an onerous issue.

In Dallas, there are two cities completly surronded by Dallas, University Park, and Highland Park. Both of these "park" cities require everything be done in 100% conduit. The city of Dallas has no such requirement. As a result, most electricians, including us, will not work in the park cities.

On the other hand, regardless of who is doing the work, the same permitting requirements are required. Obviously you have learned a very expensive lesson.

With all due respect, your father-in-law was a contractor for 30+ years and didn't think he needed to pull permits for that kind of work??? A lot of municipalities will let homeowners do their own work but still require permits.

I don't have any suggestions on how to fix your problem without spending a lot of money. You need to be a little careful with the code enforcement folks, anger them and they can be a royal PITA.

There is nothing you can do. The code needs to be followed and Chicago is a conduit only town. Your FIL should have known that as a contractor.

Are you living in the house while this work is in progress? If so, you may have no incentive to rush this obviously time consuming rework. Assuming you elect to make the required changes, how long could the job take? It might drag on for years, might it not?

I assume you have ruled out bribery, violence and blackmail as options.

(mental note- never move to IL)

Yes we are living in the home. It has been a year since this has happened. I was hoping that they weren't really serious in making us do this work (wishful thinking). There are many townships around here that don't require 100% conduit. We just happen to live in a town that does. We paid the fines and pulled the permits (after the fact)so now its just a matter of doing the work. Since we live in the home there really is no rush to get this done. I had a baby this past April so we have been putting it off. The township has not bothered us one bit about it. My husband and I have considered an appeal or speaking with someone about it. We actually live in a town called Forest Park (right outside the city) so we are hoping that they might give us some kind of break. I don't know. They have been somewhat reasonable so far. We only paid a $250 fine instead of the usual $750. The inspector told us he cut us a break because he wanted to work with us. Looking at it in retrospect yes we should have pulled the permits in the first place and yes my father in law should have known. I guess he presumed that since this was his own house he didn't have or he didn't want to.

The worst part of all this is that my home is a 2 unit property. We live in the first floor, which is duplexed into the basement. The upstairs is a 3 BR apartment so we have been missing out on at least $1000 / month because of all this. We initially bought this property because we wanted a rental to help out with the mortgage but for the last year we've been paying it all and it is sometimes a burden ($2600/month).

Thanks for all the thoughts. It helps me brainstorm. Up until this point we've pretty much put it aside but its like the elephant in the room that you just can't ignore.

Having a potential rental unit in the mix would really change things IMHO. The may be some merit in going forward right away with the work and having the rental income pay for a least part of it. Even if you had to borrow $10k to get it fixed, with a year of rental you would be in the black.

I personally would not consider "do it yourself" wiring in any rental property. The potential liability is substantial, to say the least.

Many jurisdictions will not allow a residence with do-it-yourself wiring to become a rental, even though it is permitted and inspected. Have you checked with the rental licensing folks in your area?

"My father in law has been a contractor for 30+ years and he did a majority of the work"

"We thought that we only had to get permits for the work that we were hiring out for so we only got a drywall permit"
he's a contractor with 30+ years of experience and didn't know you needed a self wiring permit?

"a code inspector came knocking on our door"
why did you let him in?

"I find it very unfair that they are asking us to do this."
why didn't you look into all the codes before hand?

"It has been a year since this has happened"
you're lucky they're letting you live there and they didn't put eviction notices up and dead lines to get the work fixed

"I was hoping that they weren't really serious in making us do this work"
seriously?

"There are many townships around here that don't require 100% conduit. We just happen to live in a town that does"
which is why you always check up on local codes

"My husband and I have considered an appeal or speaking with someone about it."
what argument do you have against it? You didn't pull the permits, you didn't follow code.

"We initially bought this property because we wanted a rental"
It being an income property throws an whole new wrench into the picture which I strongly suggest you check up on. Like what was said before, you might not even be able to rent it out at this point at all.

If you had done the work right away you could have had $12K of rental income. The job was only $8k so you would have been ahead. At least part of it would have been an expense against the income from the rental as well.

Again thanks for the advice and comments. My husband and I are trying to come up with a plan to get this work done with as little mess and tearing up as little drywall as possible. We've learned a very expensive lesson.

We plan on saving up some money through this winter and working on it in the spring.

Drywall is cheap. Don't kill yourself trying to preserve a few bucks worth of drywall.

(mental note- never move to IL)

A lot of Chicago and the surrounding 'burbs fascination with conduit comes from the strength of labor unions. It takes a lot more labor to install conduit that it does cable. The average homeowners doesn't know how to bend conduit, so you have to hire an electrician. Keeps the union boys at work.

Year ago my father and my uncle-in-law were arguing the relative merits of conduit and cable. They were going back and forth, both kind of frustrated when my uncle blurts out, "Conduit keeps the rats from eating the wires." My father responded, "Well, I don't have any rats in MY house." :-)

Forest Park provides very little (well, no) information on what codes they use. I find it a little hard to believe that they want 100% conduit. If you want to add a receptacle you're supposed to rip out the wall? Can lights in a drop ceiling? That kind of pettiness just encourages people to "cheat" creating a more dangerous situation that the code was designed to eliminate.

I'm about 20 miles outside Chicago, in the heart of Cook (I call it "conduit") County. The rules here are very specific, and my AHJ is extremely helpful and accessible. It's really pretty easy - if you can, use conduit. If you can't (fishing through existing walls,

If you can't (fishing through existing walls,

No AC or MC? What's the advantage to individual wires vs. cable?

Size. Wire vers. cable

Size. Wire vers. cable

I suppose I could have been a little clearer when I asked my question. What I wanted to know if AC or MC was specifically prohibited and if so why. I was also curious if there was something "better" about flex and individual wires (vs. cable) from the AHJ's point of view. Certainly using individual wires and flex provides more options for the electrician (e.g., using different color wire) but that's not always something an electrician needs so why go through the trouble of feeding wires through flex when a length of AC or MC would serve the purpose?

Maybe some one could explain the requirement by some jurisdictions to use conduit for residential applications. With modern romex it seems like over kill to me. Dallas requires the use of MC for commercial applications and conduit if the wiring is exposed as along interior brick or block walls.

The most common explanation for conduit is union influence. That way homeowners can't do their own wiring most of the time. Have no proof of that but it is the common belief.
That or the fear of fire. Remember Mrs. O'Leary's cow?

Mike Kaiser, the reason you can't use AC or MC is "because them's the rules."

I spent a year working in a hospital, all the emergency lights and receptacles were required to be in conduit. We were allowed to use up to 6' of greenfield when needed.

I always had the same question, why could we use greenfield but not MC (actually HCF in the hospital).

I never really looked into it, but I just assumed it was one of those issues of the person making the rule not thinking it thru.

To the thread starter, I don't want to seem like I'm getting down on you, but this quote is bothering me:

"I find it very unfair that they are asking us to do this."

I find it unfair that you did work against code, you did work much easier and cheaper than all your neighbors, and you are complaining that you are being forced to make it right. I find it unfair that you are trying to find a way out of making it safe and correct.

Do the right think, make it right. Stop trying to find a way out of it, stop asking for a break, you do not deserve special treatment.

As others have mentioned, if you took out a loan for the money it will cost to fix it you would be able to get a renter in to pay off the loan by now. The longer you sit on it the more it will cost you in lost rental income.

BTW, in my state you are alowed to do your own electrical work in your own single family home but you are NOT allowed to do work in a multi family dwelling. So in your situation you wouldn't even be able to get a permit unless you had a contractors license. What is the law in your area? Does your inspector know your house is zoned for 2 family?

Mike Kaiser, the reason you can't use AC or MC is "because them's the rules."

Gotta do better than that. Is this in the NEC somewhere or just a local interpretation? If the latter, what is the logic?

Understand that I'm separating "code" from "work preference." I could see a guy working in the Chicago area, knowing that he's limited to pipe and short lengths of flex saying he doesn't want to be bothered stocking AC or MC figuring that he already has wire, just throw some Greenfield on the truck and he's good to go.

"Is this in the NEC somewhere or just a local interpretation? If the latter, what is the logic?"

it's local. As for logic, when it comes to local codes, most of the time there is none. For example, I am required to bond the gas line in one county, in all the others I do work in it's forbidden. I can use romex on commercial jobs in one area, others want MC or conduit. MC is illegal in one area and they want everything piped.... etc... Which is exactly why you should check your local codes before doing anything.
Pleading ignorance is no excuse to not follow the same rules everyone else has to.

"Gotta do better than that."

Nope, don't gotta do better than that. Them's the rules, as promulgated by Hizhonor The Mayor's Political Machine.

I can use romex on commercial jobs in one area, others want MC or conduit

i recently rewired an area at work. when folks on another board heard i used NM-B for teh majority of it they had a stroke. screamed that NM is not allowed over a drop ceiling. the thing i could not make anyone understand is i used what the inspector TOLD me to use! in our area as long as the NM is attached to the joists above the drop ceilign it is allowed. it cannot be just run loose across teh grid, it must be secured a few feet away from teh grid and hangers. they do prefer you use conduit droppign down to teh lights, but will allow NM in certain cases. and since teh AHJ is the one who told me what he wanted that is what i did.

Nope, don't gotta do better than that. Them's the rules, as promulgated by Hizhonor The Mayor's Political Machine.

So from your statement, this is an local code and not something prohibited in the NEC. Is that correct?

Could you indulge me and offer any theories as to why the local code may be written that way, in terms of what codes are "supposed" to do (safety, etc.).

As has already been stated.

The most common explanation for conduit is union influence. That way homeowners can't do their own wiring most of the time. Have no proof of that but it is the common belief.
That or the fear of fire. Remember Mrs. O'Leary's cow?

That or the fear of fire. Remember Mrs. O'Leary's cow?

The Chicago City Council pardoned the cow a decade ago.

What was the outcome here?